Cactus Juice - Glossy finish on stabilized wood?

[Harpazo]

I've been thinking about getting the Cactus Juice setup with vacuum pump etc. and figured the answer to my quest for the perfect finish might begin in the resin itself and not so much in how the wood and/or CA finish performs. If I use CJ can I skip the CA "Topcoat" altogether?

 

[lorbay]

No as what the C J does is replace the air in the wood, so you will still be cutting raw fibres of wood. So that will still need to be finished with whatever you are comfortable with.
Lin.

 

[Harpazo]

Interesting. But the resin DOES harden into something that will take a polish correct? I can imagine the stabilizing resin getting past the fiber level into cellular structures too but am still curious if the resin penetrates at that level. If so, (and I assume it does) then I should expect at least SOME reduced margins of bare wood left at the point of contact with polishing abrasives. With my limited knowledge and experience with these things I can see Cactus Juice being a significant part of a gloss finish and maybe the CA final coat just needs to be there to fill in where the CJ leaves off.

 

[Dan Masshardt]

From my experience the answer is maybe...kinda...sometimes.

Stabilizing doesn't always fill in pores and holes which are often present in burls.

But with a solid burl you can just buff it with no added finish and it can look pretty good. I've done this with some pens.

In the end, it's most often not enough shine for me this way but it is certainly possible in some cases.

 

[KenV]

Scott -- I turn both cactus juice and commercial injected pen blanks. Some times there is enough resin to get a durable gloss surface, but most often a gloss surface must be built. Not much soaks into the blank, but plan on finishing.

Wood is an irregular product and is not predictable enough.

P.S. putting long chain polymers into wood grain is more like putting syrup on pancakes --soaks into the holes for the most part. And not much goes into dense woods.

 

[Harpazo]

Great answers guys! This seems to agree with my hunch that they all can play a part with the benefits of CJ (ideally) overlapping with the benefits of CA finish for extra assurance. My biggest issue with CA is when you've sanded down to where some of the wood still has CA and some doesn't. What is left is an unsightly spot. If hardened Cactus Juice accepts a shine then this would polish straight into the CA topcoat with no bare wood in the margins. Please keep in mind, I'm not speaking from experience, just thinking things might be working this way.

 

[The Penguin]

you are incorrect.

CJ will not polish like CA will. If you sand through the CA - you will have dull spots on your finished pen

 

[Dan Masshardt]

Yeah, I think it would still be obvious where the spots were. There is a noticeable difference in the gloss IMO.

The thing about ca (in my opinion) is that you've got to lay it down smooth. No low grit sandpaper for me on ca. Only Micromesh or polishing compounds / buffing.

 

[Harpazo]

Boy, honing in on getting a good CA finish is like peeling an onion. I started playing with Micromesh today too by skipping the first 4 or 5 grits but I still sanded through it. And the CA I put on looked pretty good to start with. So I wised up and just went with a good coat of CA pen finish as is. This saved me time, frustration, and it still looks acceptable. I'm going more for good figure so as long as it's clear finish I'm happy for now. Now, question... Where does the Beall buffing system come in? Is this what I need? Just apply CA then go straight to buff without sanding? Anyone tried it?

 

[The Penguin]

don't try to take shortcuts.

lay down a good CA base, sand back to smooth, then polish. you'll see a huge difference.

once you have the CA smooth, you can go Beall buff to polish. I don't do this because I've had tripoli burn (cut) through CA to the wood.

you can also wet sand to 1000 grit, then use an acrylic buffing wheel and compound - will give similar results to using micromesh.

 

[lorbay]

Yes there are a lot of people on here that go straight from puttiing on CA and go straight to the buffer. I still do the sanding myself. Just the way I was tought.
Lin.

 

[robutacion]

Going back slightly, on the stabilized wood issue, I normally say that, the 2 major advantages of stabilizing wood are;

*1- Harden very soft woods. Many woods would be unworkable as they are, only hardening it through stabilization will create in a piece of wood with full penetration of the hardening solution (If stabilized properly, exceptions do apply with some woods, such as extremely dense and oily woods...!), CA as a hardener, is very effective but not so much on more than a couple of millimeters thick wood, re-applying as you go is fundamental...!

*2- Treat the wood and make it water repellent and or resistant to any foreign liquid/substance. This is the main reason why good knife makers only use stabilized woods in their knife handles...!

*3- Ideal to make items where the "natural feel and finish" are required. On pens, the natural finish in woods means, not gloss, that is exactly what you get it the stabilized wood is simple sanded smooth and polished...!

This is my take on the issue you raised...!

Good luck,

Cheers
George

 

[Harpazo]

don't try to take shortcuts.

lay down a good CA base, sand back to smooth, then polish. you'll see a huge difference.

once you have the CA smooth, you can go Beall buff to polish. I don't do this because I've had tripoli burn (cut) through CA to the wood.

you can also wet sand to 1000 grit, then use an acrylic buffing wheel and compound - will give similar results to using micromesh.

And don't give up... Glad to know of the comparable results from Beall Buff and Micromesh. I may stick with that due to the finer gradations between steps. Going with a buffing wheel, at this point, means several more equipment purchases I can eliminate in order to get going with a top-notch finish.

I'm still very interested in the CJ setup and may order it all today. I'm planning on getting a Robinair 16310 3CFM vacuum pump from a different source. Oh! I just remembered... I wanted to ask someone how much Cactus Juice does the Large CJ chamber need, one or two quarts? Thx!

 

[nativewooder]

May I suggest:

Go to the MicroMesh site and read up on how to use it.
Go to the Beall Industrial Tools site and do likewise.
Use a Search engine to look up abrasives and their grit ratings, and how to use them.

Don't mean to be critical, as you can print from the various sites and have info available for later use. And the info you will have is from the source, so you will remember it longer. We all use more or less the same system(s) so the info you get here will generally be true.

 

[Edgar]

Here's a recent thread that might provide some interesting reading if you weren't following it at the time:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f217/free-blanks-deal-127183/

Starting on page 3 of this thread, you will find photos of 14 pens made by different turners from the same batch of cj stabilized & slightly dyed blanks from George Valentine (Robutacion).

Only a few of us who participated in that activity described their finishing method, but you can readily see a range of different finishing effects on a group of almost identical cj stabilized blanks. If you see some that you particularly like, I'm sure the turners will be glad to share their techniques with you.