Alumilite clear vs. water clear

[Camardelle]

Website says the water clear has an open time of 15 minutes as opposed to the clear's 12 minute limit. Other than that, is there an advantage of one over the other? I'd love to hear from someone who's used both. I will be making a purchase soon and want to get started right. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Skie_M]

Water clear is not for penmaking ... it's for decoration. The water clear cures somewhat soft.....


Go with the Alumalite Clear.

Also ... don't forget to "bake" your blanks after they've had time to set. If you don't, they'll be a little flexible and kinda gummy ... 200 degrees for a half hour or so (use an old toaster oven or something).

 

[Camardelle]

Thanks Skie_M, that's good information. I appreciate the response and I'm looking forward to getting set up and making my own blanks. Thanks again!

 

[Camardelle]

Any thoughts on the standard clear vs. the slow version?

 

[robertkulp]

Water Clear has a hardness of about 72 and Clear/Slow Clear is about 80. That makes a big difference for the rough life of a pen getting dropped and knocked around. As for Clear vs Slow Clear... Clear has an open time of about 7 minutes and Slow Clear of about 15 minutes. If you can get them poured within 5 min, use the regular Clear since you can demold them in 30-45 min. Slow Clear needs about 90 min before demolding.

"Baking" Alumilite?? There's no need to do that. Some people need to do that with PR, but not Alumilite. If you're using silicone molds, warm them before pouring and Alumilite Clear blanks will be hard in 60 min.

 

[Skie_M]

Water Clear has a hardness of about 72 and Clear/Slow Clear is about 80. That makes a big difference for the rough life of a pen getting dropped and knocked around. As for Clear vs Slow Clear... Clear has an open time of about 7 minutes and Slow Clear of about 15 minutes. If you can get them poured within 5 min, use the regular Clear since you can demold them in 30-45 min. Slow Clear needs about 90 min before demolding.

"Baking" Alumilite?? There's no need to do that. Some people need to do that with PR, but not Alumilite. If you're using silicone molds, warm them before pouring and Alumilite Clear blanks will be hard in 60 min.

Well ... I have an electric oil-filled heater here.

I warmed up my alumilite for about 20 minutes while I ground various colored chalks for the pigments, this allows the resin to flow much more easily.

After the pour, I let them sit overnight on top of the heater, with a plastic bowl over top to help retain additional heat.

The resulting blanks were flat, round, 3-inch discs, approx 1/4" high. And they were flexible, easy to dent with a fingernail, and hard to properly polish up...

I discerned that the issue was that the resin had only partially set, so I took my blanks, (including one that had been unsuccessfully turned) and baked them in my toaster oven at 200 degrees for a half hour.

The resulting blanks came out rock hard, and quite easy to polish properly. I would say that the baking time was pretty much essential to success. Several of the blanks had been sitting out for 2 weeks before attempting to turn without the baking ... those were soft too.

 

[bmachin]

Skie_m,

Your problem (I think) may have a lot to do with your part geometry. Thin section parts do not cure well on their own due to the high surface to volume ratio, thus the need for the post cure. I think though that 200F is a lot higher than Alumilite recommends. I would check their website, but if memory serves, I believe their recommendation is more in the range of 140-150.

You might also check out this site for an excellent if somewhat detailed primer on molding, casting and coloring in general:
Guerrilla guide to CNC machining, mold making, and resin casting

As always, FWIW,
Bill

 

[RetiredGuy23]

Are you sure that you are correctly measuring part A and part B?

 

[Skie_M]

Are you sure that you are correctly measuring part A and part B?

Yup ... exactly the same levels of each, and then mixing for about a minute before adding my extra materials and mixing some more to coat them.

The warmed resin also allows air bubbles to escape much more easily, I haven't seen a single air bubble in my blanks.

Also, there's a small fan I have that is right up against the heater ... turning it on causes the heating unit to vibrate without making much noise. This also helps to degas the resin before it sets.


After I've "baked" the blanks, they cut beautifully and tend to keep the extra material I've mixed into them much more readily.

 

[darrin1200]

Are you sure that you are correctly measuring part A and part B?

Yup ... exactly the same levels of each, and then mixing for about a minute before adding my extra materials and mixing some more to coat them.

Keep in mind that alumilite is not mixed by volume, but by weight. As I understand it, A &B do not have the same density, so do not weigh the same per volume.

Depending on the size of your pour, being off just a little can have an effect. Thats why you have to be careful with the dyes, as they can affect the amount of the A side.

 

[BeeAMaker]

Keep in mind that alumilite is not mixed by volume, but by weight. As I understand it, A &B do not have the same density, so do not weigh the same per volume.

Depending on the size of your pour, being off just a little can have an effect. Thats why you have to be careful with the dyes, as they can affect the amount of the A side.

Thanks for the reminder! lol
I just received my first order of Alumilite and was surprised to see that I had a lot more of part A, than I did part B. I knew they are mixed by weight but spaced the fact that one might be more dense than the other.
The 2 bottles weight the same.

 

[Camardelle]

How long is the shelf life of Alumililte once it's opened, and what temps should I be looking at when I'm mixing? Is there a range?

Thanks for everyone's advice. I appreciate the help.

 

[Skie_M]

On side of bottle of my "Alumilite Clear" bottles that I got from Hobby Lobby:

Mix Ratio: 1 to 1 by Volume
Work Time: 30-40 minutes
Demold Time: 24-48 hours


This says nothing about "by weight" anywhere in the paperwork that came with it or on the bottles. I'll just assume that the formulation you are using is totally different, and has different instructions.

I will say that the alumilite blanks that I've made using this stuff, after baking, have come out quite nicely, without interior bubbles and voids that I've heard so many bad things about. It could just be that I'm using the heat properly, to encourage the bubbles to leave the mix before setting (It DOES happen to have a 30 - 40 minute working time), or it could just be luck.


This stuff that I'm working with (the Alumilite Clear, from Hobby Lobby - 16 oz package in 2 8-oz bottles), I get it up to around 110 - 120 degrees by sitting it on top of this radiant heater before I measure and mix. The "Part B" flows quickly, more like a light syrup. The "Part A" flows more slowly, like a heavy syrup.

I mix the 2 parts together, then I add the mixed resin to the aggregate materials (crushed abalone shells) and powdered pigments (crushed/shaved colored chalks). I mix again, introducing a ton of air bubbles in the process ... then I level out the materials in the bottom of the mold and set them back on the heater. 20 minutes later, bubbles are all at the top of the molding, and the resin beneath the bubbles looks very clear.

In another 10 hours, or so, this latest batch that I poured about 2 hours ago will be unmolded and baked for 30 minutes at 200 degrees. I think my friend will be quite happy with the "Pink'n'Pearl" mix.

 

[BeeAMaker]

On side of bottle of my "Alumilite Clear" bottles that I got from Hobby Lobby:

Mix Ratio: 1 to 1 by Volume
Work Time: 30-40 minutes
Demold Time: 24-48 hours


This says nothing about "by weight" anywhere in the paperwork that came with it or on the bottles. I'll just assume that the formulation you are using is totally different, and has different instructions.

If you are buying from hobby lobby, are you sure it is Alumilite?
https://www.alumilite.com/store/p/1078-Alumilite-Clear-For-Wood-Turning-Applications.aspx

Clearly states, by weight. Perhaps Hobby Lobby is re-bottling it for there own sales/brand and have the instructions wrong on the bottle, or it's not Alumilite.

 

[Skie_M]

Also on the bottle, at the bottom ....

Alumiite Corporation
Kalamazoo, MI 49007
www,alumilite,com

The printed instructions that came with the bottles also dictate the 1:1 ratio by volume. (used commas for the website thingy, using the proper periods gets it wrapped in html tags automatically ... rofl!)


Yup, I took a look at your link. You've found the wrong product for sure. A little browsing on their site let me find the correct one!

https://www.alumilite.com/store/p/1023-Amazing-Clear-Cast.aspx

Amazing Clear Cast

Alumilite's Amazing Clear Cast is a clear casting and coating system that cures to a rigid, durable, clear plastic. Use Amazing Clear Cast for coating or finishing applications such as bar tops, floors, taxidermy scenery, lenses, and all sorts of other clear casting or coating applications. Amazing Clear Cast is an easy to use, 1:1 mix ratio system that cures overnight which allows time for air bubbles to evacuate prior to curing. Amazing Clear Cast can be colored with Alumilite dyes, alcoholic inks, or other non-water base colorants.
Complies with FDA CFR 177.2600

Prior to use, read all Technical Data Sheets/Instructions and Safety Data Sheets linked below.

 

[BeeAMaker]

Also on the bottle, at the bottom ....

Alumiite Corporation
Kalamazoo, MI 49007
www,alumilite,com

The printed instructions that came with the bottles also dictate the 1:1 ratio by volume. (used commas for the website thingy, using the proper periods gets it wrapped in html tags automatically ... rofl!)

Hummm, One of the guys in my Maker groups is a rep for Alumilite - I'll ask him about it. Perhaps they are not away of the type-o or maybe what they sell to HL is something a bit different.

 

[Skie_M]

Totally different formulation ... still made by Alumilite, but has different working time and properties.

I found the product that I use, it's pictured above in my edited post ... this should clear up some of the misunderstanding.

THIS is the Alumilite Clear that we are referencing as buying from Hobby Lobby.

 

[BeeAMaker]

OK, that is not the same stuff as the Alumilite clear for turning.

That explains a bit, but hay - if it is working for you :good:

 

[Skie_M]

On the outer box/package for the bottles there is clearly a picture of a turned alumilite pen... If it weren't for that picture, I wouldn't have even tried it out ... it works great, though, I can't wait to make my first pen blank!

Hmmm ... looks kinda like a Sierra.

 

[bmachin]

Late to the party. Amazing Clear Cast is an epoxy where Clear is a urethane. Totally different systems; totally different names.

It pays to be specific when talking about specific products!

Bill

 

[bmachin]

Camardelle,

Your last question kind of got lost in the shuffle.

According to Alumilite's website, the shelf life of clear is 3 months. I think that that is very conservative. The real enemy is high temperature and moisture in the bottle. If you can use Bloxygen or something similar each time you open the bottle you can extend that time a lot.

As far as temperature goes, I assume that you are talking about heat generated while mixing. It all depends on the size of the pour. Anything under 50 grams you won't even feel. Anything around 300 grams will not be at all uncomfortable to hold. Anything over that I've never done.

I strongly suggest that you take a look at the manufacturer's website, not just for Alumilite, but for just about any type of adhesive, chemical, etc. that is new to you. A lot of the members here have used it, but no one knows as much as the manufacturer.

I also really like this website as a primer on casting urethanes:
Guerrilla guide to CNC machining, mold making, and resin casting

Good luck,
Bill

 

[Camardelle]

Thanks. In terms of temps, I was referring to the the temps I was working in. In other words, how cold can it be when I'm mixing and casting the Alumilite?

 

[bmachin]

A really good answer to your last question here:

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f43/alumilite-ambient-temp-136049/

Bill