You cannot do that!

[Titanium15]

As most of you know, I am new to wood turning, and even newer to pen making. One do the challenges to getting started is tools. I had an old Harbor Freight set when I got my lathe, so that is what I started with. I wanted better tooling, but I just cannot afford the price for good tools. At least that is what I was led to believe.
At a meeting of our local turning group, I asked if I could make tools from some old files that I had been given back when I was doing blacksmithing. That was before the last set of back surgeries.
I was told, in no uncertuin terms, that I could not, under any circumstances, make a tool for wood turning out of an old file. Hmm. Yea, you guessed it. When I am told something like that, in that sort of way, I am going to do it. I was told I could not build a boat, but in May of 2007, we launched the good ship Someday, and we still go out in her today.
I took the files to the grinder, set the tool rest on the course wheel at about 30 degrees, and started grinding. After I was done with that, and had the edge that I thought would cut wood, I went to the shop in the garage. There I took the angle grinder, with a flap wheel and sanded the teeth off the files. Then, back to the lathe, to see if they would work, or if I would lose a digit like I was led to believe. I made the two bowls in the pictures with just the three tools that I made. I have not finished the bowls yet, but I have started the sanding on the one the right. I apologize that the pictures are so dark, my daughter wanted the sparks to show up more than she wanted me to show. What gives with that?
Please let me know what you think, of the tools and of the bowls. These are the very first bowls that I turned. And the only bowls I have turned! I started with a piece of wood from the firewood pile for both of them, 2 year old dry red oak. Lots of sanding dust, but I did not have any trouble with the turning.
Thanks, Stephen

 

[pianomanpj]

That's pretty sweet! Nicely done!

 

[liljohn1368]

Glad you did it. If everybody didn't do everything they were told could not be done. The world would still be flat. Another thing nice looking bowls..

 

[KenV]

You missed understanding what they were trying to say. It can be very risky to use files because they can be very brittle and have fractures in the valleys between teeth.

Of course you can do it -- but is has the potential to get someone hurt -- and at high speed the hurt can be serious.

 

[CREID]

You missed understanding what they were trying to say. It can be very risky to use files because they can be very brittle and have fractures in the valleys between teeth.

Of course you can do it -- but is has the potential to get someone hurt -- and at high speed the hurt can be serious.

I agree, the metal in files is soooo hard and brittle. Make sure you use very good eye protection.
Curt

 

[Akula]

Honestly, I would dump the files. No need in extra risks. As far as the Harbor Freight set, I have owned a set of them for many years and I will still use them from time to time. Keep them sharp and they work. I have also made my own tools, one I use often is from screw drivers, and I use them on small captive rings. Just because we can do something, don't mean we should. I have made knives from old files, they work but far from the best material today. Good luck and be safe

 

[jsolie]

Good job on the bowls.

Like Ken, I'd be leery of files due to brittleness. That being said, I don't know personally of anyone who's had a file-turned-to-lathe-tool shatter, but I have seen a large mill file break into several pieces when dropped. And I remember my father swearing like a wounded pirate about it, and while he was braising it back together, and a few times afterwards when he tried to use it.

 

[Titanium15]

Thank you! That is not how it was presented to me, that there was problem using the file, it was much more that you are not able, not there could be issues.
That being said, can I anneal them and make them less brittle? Either way, I am going to see if I can find a hunk of leaf spring and make some scrapers out of that. Spring steel is not brittle, and should do the job.
Again, thank you for the information!
Stephen

 

[Skie_M]

Files are generally made of high-carbon steel which is then heat treated for high hardness. The tempering done to a file is minimal in order to maintain that hardness. Tempering makes the metal softer and more resilient, able to bend and take stresses. That's why files are brittle, they can't take those kinds of stresses.


I would ask if, when you were grinding your profiles with those files, did you get the metal up to a red cherry glow on the tips? Did the metal discolor (turn tan, bronze, blue, even purple) down the metal of the file towards the grip? If so, then you tempered it with the heat you produced when grinding.

An ideal temper for lathe tools is around a bronze color along the working area of the metal and the edge, with more towards blue/purple in the area before the handle, and a dull grey inside the actual handle (think spring steel).

To be on the safe side, you can grab your new tools and stick em in a toaster oven (just the metal part) at around 450 degrees, and let them cool overnight.... Before they go in the toaster, sand one part very shiny so that you can see the temper color of the metal. As it's cookin, keep an eye on that color and when it reaches a bronze color, turn off the heat.

Later, the back part of the tool (away from the working edge) can be hit with a blowtorch till it's a nice blue/purple with grey in the part that will be inside the wood handle. Make sure you don't mess up the temper of the working end of the tool, and give yourself a few inches of room up there for sharpening down the road.


Keep in mind that working with hot metal is inherently dangerous. So is working with an open flame. If you make your own tools, you should be taking your safety and the safety of anybody who will be using that tool into your hands... Even so, I would not leave the heat treatment of those tools in their current condition. It's an unknown, and that's not acceptable in my mind. I'ld much rather know my tools are safe to use.

Also keep in mind that you are only limited by your own imagination... Hey, I CAN do this!

 

[Skie_M]

Thank you! That is not how it was presented to me, that there was problem using the file, it was much more that you are not able, not there could be issues.
That being said, can I anneal them and make them less brittle? Either way, I am going to see if I can find a hunk of leaf spring and make some scrapers out of that. Spring steel is not brittle, and should do the job.
Again, thank you for the information!
Stephen

Spring steel won't hold a proper edge .... it's not hardened.

If you heat treat it to harden the steel, and THEN temper the hardness back to make your working tool, that will work fine.

 

[alankulwicki7]

Sure you can use files to make woodturning tools but I wouldn't do it. To me, it's not worth the risk of getting a catch and having the tool break apart and hitting you in a bad spot.

I would save your pennies and invest in some tools made for the job. Just too much at risk here.

As far as tempering the steel, how much is your time worth? For the amount of time and money you spend getting the equipment to temper your spring steel and files, you can easily buy some proper tools for the job.

There are plenty of decent and inexpensive tools out there. Check out Benjamin Best tools for one.

And this is coming from a guy who likes to cut corners wherever possible

 

[Titanium15]

Getting the equipment to do this is not a problem. I have two forges, one coal and one gas. The gas forge can be set so the steel never burns up, like you can do with a coal forge if you don't pay attention to it. The problem with the forges and the whole blacksmith shop is I have to stand to use it. And, ever since I had a discussion with a surgeon and he put a bunch of metal in my back, I cannot stand much. At least not for long.
I really just like making stuff and using it. Like tools. So, I will try to anneal and temper these, or just toss them in the scrap pile and take it as another lesson learned. That is the most important part of all this to me, learning. I learned some new stuff, and now can apply it to what I do in the future. Not a bad deal in my mind. Especially when it help keep me, and others who may have the same idea, safer.
Thanks again for all your help and input! I truly appreciate it.
Stephen

 

[BRobbins629]

Well done. I too like to make all my turning tools but choose to use tool steel. Pretty inexpensive, holds an edge and is designed for the use. Get mine from use-enco.com

 

[low_48]

You can make a tool from a screwdriver,but, it can shatter if overhung from the tool rest too far. Or you may have to sharpen every minute. The shattering is the issue. You can have sharp metal pieces flying at you! Wear a face shield for sure with file tools!

 

[Skie_M]

Don't ANNEAL them ... that will just soften the metal, and then it will NOT be hardened.

Tempering them with heat is the answer. Heat treating is the rapid quenching that you see so often in blacksmithing videos, where they heat the steel up to red-hot and then dip it in brine or oil...

Tempering is removing SOME of the hardness to achieve resilience, which would reduce the chance of the tool breaking.

 

[TurtleTom]

The proper way to anneal a file is to heat it red hot and bury in wood ashes for 24 hours. It will still be hot when you dig it out the next day. After you make your tool then harden and heat treat as usual.

 

[Paul in OKC]

Good grief! My first tool was made from a file. Used it a long time. It was kind of a one sided skew. As long as the tool is not 'bouncing' on your tool rest, there should be very little chance of it breaking. Keep your tool rest as close as you can to the work and you should be fine. Files can take more abuse than you think.