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Old 06-05-2018, 10:11 AM   #31 (permalink)
 
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After reading all the comments it is clear to me that if you ask two woodworkers a question, you get four answers. LOL
I think in this case he is looking for suggestions to improve his idea. Will it work yes if he takes some of mine and others recommendations into his thought process. Is there a better way, well there are other ways and other sleds that maybe more economical in the long run and more versatile such as the Dubby sled. I have 2 sets of those and I still made dedicated sleds for some of the pen work we do. Making jigs can be half the fun sometimes.
How about posting some pictures of segmented pens you have made with your dubby sled? I would love to see what it can do.
Hello Gary

I do not use my Dubby sled to make segmented pens. I use it for picture frames and also boxes especially when doing more than a 4 sided project. As I said I have made dedicated sleds for doing pen segments. I have shown you one which is a 45 degree. I have a 60 degree and a 22.5. I can make them to any degree I feel a need for.

Basically what you are making is a wedgie sled. there are many on the market and can use 2 different approaches. They can ride in the miter tracks as yours does or it can ride against the fence. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Just a matter of choice. The Dubby sled that is being mentioned is a variable sled in that it does not need fixed fences such as mine or yours. I really do not want to take the time and write up another whole explanation of what can be done. But if you were to make a variable fence instead of the fixed angles portions you can make your sled more valuable and just as easy to use. I use machinist squares and draftsman angles to get me all angles in my shop and you can do the same and eliminate those angled sleds. Place the draftsman angle against blade and you now have correct angle to set your sliding fence. That is how a dubby sled can be set as well or you can use the steel guage on the side of the sled if you tune it in just right.

I bring this up because with each angle portion you add you can add error to your set up. If you make an adjustable fence or a swinging fence once it is set there is no more errors. Use the fixed angle finders and lock it down. Have all your stop blocks and hold down clamps attached to the fence. I am not discouraging you at all. You are trying to build a sled that will help you in the long run and I commend you for it. keep at it. Just look around what others have done and maybe take some of their ideas and combine with yours. Good luck.

Again as I said I made dedicated sleds for segmenting pens as well as I segment on my lathe using a router.
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Old 06-05-2018, 10:21 AM   #32 (permalink)
 
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1. Makes no difference because as I said each sled must be made off the blade's axis. The back fence needs to be 90 degrees to the side of the blade and all jigs need to work off that. You can not use the miter slots as your bench mark. This goes for any type saw including bandsaws.

2. The base of the sled needs to be 3/4" for stability and for allowing those tracks underneath for the hold down bolts you show. When you say depth of cut is a concern then you are not working with a 10" blade. If you are working with a 10" full size saw and using a 7-1/4" blade for thinness, they do make thin 10" saw blades too.

3. I believe there are examples of this type sleds in the library here. You may want to check it out or do a google search for other examples and it may inspire you more so. Good luck.
===============================================

Thanks for your input.

1. I was taught a little different than that. The miter slot is the primary reference point to which all others are referenced because it is non-adjustable.
....a. The blade is first adjusted to be parallel with the miter slot.
....b. The fence is adjusted to be parallel with the miter slot (and blade).
....c. The miter gauge is then squared to the miter slot (for 90 cuts).
....d. All jigs are referenced off the miter slot and by doing so are square to the blade.

2. The sled base is now at 3/4".

3. I looked in the library and did not find much there regarding jigs.

Last edited by GDIS46; 06-05-2018 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 06-05-2018, 10:50 AM   #33 (permalink)
 
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1. Makes no difference because as I said each sled must be made off the blade's axis. The back fence needs to be 90 degrees to the side of the blade and all jigs need to work off that. You can not use the miter slots as your bench mark. This goes for any type saw including bandsaws.

2. The base of the sled needs to be 3/4" for stability and for allowing those tracks underneath for the hold down bolts you show. When you say depth of cut is a concern then you are not working with a 10" blade. If you are working with a 10" full size saw and using a 7-1/4" blade for thinness, they do make thin 10" saw blades too.

3. I believe there are examples of this type sleds in the library here. You may want to check it out or do a google search for other examples and it may inspire you more so. Good luck.
===============================================

Thanks for your input.

1. I was taught a little different than that. The miter slot is the primary reference point to which all others are referenced because it is non-adjustable.
....a. The blade is adjusted to be parallel with the miter slot.
....b. The fence is adjusted to be parallel with the miter slot (and blade).
....c. The miter gauge is then squared to the miter slot (for 90 cuts).
....d. All jigs are referenced off the miter slot and by doing so are square to the blade.

2. The sled base is now at 3/4".

3. I looked in the library and did not find much there regarding jigs.

Yes and no

Yes a miter slot is not adjustable and it is the most true reference point on the saw. But the blade is adjusted to the miter slot to the best of its ability. ( I defy you to get dead on on any saw) This is usually done one of 2 ways. Adjust the table top to the fixed blade or adjust the trunions ( blade setup)to the table top. Now you have to rely on the slots being true to each other and true the length of the saw top. All good quality saws are proven so. Now the fence is adjusted to the blade and not the miter slots. The miter gauge is adjusted to the blade not the miter slots. All jigs are referenced off the blade. Unless that blade moves and unless you check it from time to time you do not know.

If you lay a machinist square (most accurate) or a draftsman angle against the flat of a blade (not touching any teeth) there is no truer reference point unless your blade is warped or bent (then you have a bigger problem) You are now referencing off the blade which is doing the cutting. Whenever I set my miter gauge I always am changinging angles so I just use a machinist square to reset and do not rely on the gauge marks. I from time to time check measurements against the blade both ends to check fence.

When making a jig, what is the first thing you do?? Lay the sled base down on some runners. Now cut your slot in the base or cut the base off if making a one sided base. You add that back fence 90 degrees to the slot cut in the base or what I do is just again lay a machinist square against the flat of the blade and square that back fence. The front fence does not matter unless you are using for reference for something. Then you do the same as back fence. You never secure your wood against the front fence because of the direction the blade spins. It will lift the piece. Now any other guides or jigs you build can be referenced off the blade. (even if that blade is mm out the sled is built to to the blade not the miter slots)

Hope this makes sense.

As an example, look at my sled. I could have layed that base wood on any angle and it would not make a difference. because when I cut the slot in the base wood that became the reference point or benchmark where I place my fences. Using a 45 degree draftsman angle off the slot (or blade) gave me the exact place to secure my fences.

Here is another quick jig I made to cut slivers for segmenting pens. This one is built off my miter gauge but again is reference off the blade for accurracy.
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Old 06-05-2018, 11:27 AM   #34 (permalink)
 
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I use the MasterGage SB-1 SuperBar and MasterPlate to adjust my blade (tunions) to the miter slot and it is now pretty much dead-on. Also it can be used to check the fence to see if it is in adjustment. Which reminds me that I should probably recheck this again since it has been a year since I last did it.

The body of the MasterGage SB-1 SuperBar, with its unique patent pending adjustment system, assures glass smooth motion in the full length of table saw miter slot. The SuperBar has an on-board dial Indicator that gives you machine shop accuracy to 1/1000 of an inch. Now you can make dangerous misalignment visible and accurately set the 10 critical table saw adjustments required for maximum saw performance. The package comes with complete instructions, plus free technical support from the manufacturer. For maximum results, use the MasterPlate with the SuperBar. (Shown with Master Plate G7582). Has an on-board precision dial indicator that reads to one thousandths [1/1000] of an inch Dial indicator extensions allow the SuperBar to fit most table saws. SuperBar has both coarse and fine adjustments that insure smooth, accurate motion along the full length of the miter slot. The SuperBar "outrigger rods" ride on the saw table surface.
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Old 06-05-2018, 02:23 PM   #35 (permalink)
 
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I use the MasterGage SB-1 SuperBar and MasterPlate to adjust my blade (tunions) to the miter slot and it is now pretty much dead-on. Also it can be used to check the fence to see if it is in adjustment. Which reminds me that I should probably recheck this again since it has been a year since I last did it.

The body of the MasterGage SB-1 SuperBar, with its unique patent pending adjustment system, assures glass smooth motion in the full length of table saw miter slot. The SuperBar has an on-board dial Indicator that gives you machine shop accuracy to 1/1000 of an inch. Now you can make dangerous misalignment visible and accurately set the 10 critical table saw adjustments required for maximum saw performance. The package comes with complete instructions, plus free technical support from the manufacturer. For maximum results, use the MasterPlate with the SuperBar. (Shown with Master Plate G7582). Has an on-board precision dial indicator that reads to one thousandths [1/1000] of an inch Dial indicator extensions allow the SuperBar to fit most table saws. SuperBar has both coarse and fine adjustments that insure smooth, accurate motion along the full length of the miter slot. The SuperBar "outrigger rods" ride on the saw table surface.

And they are all pretty tools.

I have the A-Line-It by in-line industries system that I have used to set my tablesaw, it also checks drill press, router, lathe runout, set blades on jointer.
A-LINE-IT System - In-Line Industries - Woodworking Tools & Tips

I also have the Exact Cuts system for my tablesaw. They all are collecting dust in the cabinet. Very rare occasion I will check a tool.

I mean no disrespect to you and you use whatever tools you need to make adjustments. But when setting a fence for a rip cut do you pull that tool out or do you use a rule?? As long as the front tooth and rear tooth are at least equal or a smidge further in the rear the fence is parallel to the blade. Has to be. The miter gauge. I never go by the marks or presets on a miter gauge. Have my square up against the side of the blade and that miter has to be 90 degrees to the blade. has to be. No fancy tools. Same with setting angles. I have recently bought a digital angle finder and have run it through a few tests and it is dead on set to my blade.

As I said blade set to miter slot, fence and miter gauge set to blade No other way is accurate. You said yourself "pretty much dead on" In woodworking that is close enough for we are working with material that moves on its own anyway. The idea is to and brings us back to why you are making the sled, ease of making cuts that are not basic and repeatability. How you make that sled will all come off that blade. You may not want to admit it but that is what has to be if you want accuracy. Good luck. I am done with this conversation. I have given you all my input and wish you well.
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Old 06-05-2018, 03:16 PM   #36 (permalink)
 
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My dilemma is I have a Bosch BT3000 table saw that has no miter slots. Trying how to make something to cut angles for segmenting pens, etc.
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Old 06-05-2018, 09:43 PM   #37 (permalink)
 
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My dilemma is I have a Bosch BT3000 table saw that has no miter slots. Trying how to make something to cut angles for segmenting pens, etc.
Are you sure that is not a Ryobi saw?? I have never seen a table saw without miter slots.

Does it have extension wings on it for a router or any extension wings on it??

My suggestion without seeing it and hope you post a photo, would be to make a sled that has the runners on the side of the table. In other words the sled stays flat on the table top and there are hardwood or aluminum runners under the table and ride on the sides of the top if there is no obstructions. Again really would need to see this saw. I could not find it when I googled it.


What is the top made of?? Could it be possible to router a couple slots in the top if it is a composite material and not steel?? Again need to see but gave you a couple suggestions to start with. If it has a fence it is possible to build off that too. More involved but possible.
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:31 AM   #38 (permalink)
 
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My dilemma is I have a Bosch BT3000 table saw that has no miter slots. Trying how to make something to cut angles for segmenting pens, etc.
The Bosch portable does not come in a model BT3000 and all Bosch models have miter slots so I assume you are referring to the Ryobie BT3000. That is a very unusual configuration. It looks like the table splits and miter slots can be inserted. Is that correct?
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Old 06-12-2018, 07:38 PM   #39 (permalink)
 
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Getting ready to make the sled now that I think I have all the issues ironed out. Only an actual usage will tell for sure.

But I have a question:
Should I make a prototype out of MDF or go straight for Baltic Birch plywood?

Last edited by GDIS46; 06-12-2018 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 06-12-2018, 10:09 PM   #40 (permalink)
 
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Getting ready to make the sled now that I think I have all the issues ironed out. Only an actual usage will tell for sure.

But I have a question:
Should I make a prototype out of MDF or go straight for Baltic Birch plywood?

Why would you need a prototype??? You will not get the same results with MDF. no way to screw things in without inserts.

I have a question for you----- how are you making the angles that are the main part of the sled and how are you cutting them???
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