Repair it or replace

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

candy1land

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
118
Location
Long Beach
Ok I've been fighting with my lathe head stock for a few weeks now. My headstock and motor have been running hot. I replaced the bearings and the one closest to the tailstock did not seat in properly. After speaking with Delta they suggested I put the bearing in wrong and suggested that if it doesn't go in perfectly straight it's over.

Well I decided to turn with it in not seated perfectly and now my pens are turning out of round even though the point tests are ok. Dead pushed up to live centers - they are almost perfect. But the headstock isn't turning in the round.

Which leads me back to the bearing issue. SO I took the new bearing out and tried to put the old bearing back in because when I removed the old bearing in the first place I didn't check to see if it was seated perfectly before I took it out.

Of course when I put the old bearing back in it won't seat right either in the same place as the new one. SO - I do not have a socket the size of the bearing or a PVC pipe the same size as the bearing. I used a piece of flat wood, I used the new bearing over the old one. I tried it several times several ways and I can't get either bearing in perfectly flush.

So either I super suck at putting in bearings which is entirely possible or the machining done to create the hole is off and was off when I bought it. No I am no longer under warranty of course.

So I have two choices now in my mind. Either go to a shop and see if they can get the bearings in or buy a new headstock for $120 and ask them to send it with the bearings already put in.

I'm assuming this bearing not being perfectly seated is causing my pens to turn out of round?

What do you guys think? I want to get back to turning and I don't want to waste money on a shop if all they are going to tell me is that I need a new headstock anyway. UGH!

Thanks!


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

MRDucks2

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2017
Messages
3,215
Location
Bristow, IN
IMHO I would go with the new headstock for $120 with bearings. If the bore for the bearing is messed up it will need to machine/ground to make it right which means it may need to be welded up and turned down. For that small of bearing, that much work would exceed $120.

The reason it is turning out of round is that, even though the points align, the axis through the centers of the two bearings and through the point on the headstock is at an angle compared to the same axis through the tail stock.

If you turned pennies to a smaller diameter they would likely be round. The further the distance between the points, the further out of round it will be.

If you mounted a face plate in the head stock, a dial indicator on a live center on the tail stock and rotated the dial indicator around the outer portion of the face plate on the stationary headstock, I believe you see the problem.


Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app
 

KenV

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2005
Messages
4,720
Location
Juneau, Alaska.
Tried turning between centers??? Especially with a light touch on the pressure.

Spindle turning with misalignment works because the spindle end flexes against the drive center and tail center.

But odds are that you got the bearing out of alignment when you started the new one (kind of like cross threading a bolt).

Did you look closely and feel the bearing housing for a burr or the like??
 

randyrls

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
4,821
Location
Harrisburg, PA 17112
Candace; When removing or replacing a bearing, it is important to only press on the outside rim of the bearing. If it went in crooked, it may be possible to reseat the bearing.

To remove the bearing take the spindle out. While you have the spindle out, check the spindle locations when the bearings are located when in place. This is called the "journal" and it is a critical dimension! The bearings should have a firm sliding fit on that part of the spindle. The one closest to the spindle nose may be tighter than the other one. In some lathes these locations may be skimped on resulting in bearings that overheat or don't run true.

Insert a rod either brass or aluminum preferred, or steel. The bearing seat normally has a exposed part of the rim that is visible inside the head stock. Using a small hammer, insert the rod thru the head stock and remove the opposite bearing by tapping gently around the rim of the bearing until it pops free. Do the second bearing just like the first. Make sure the bearing seat is squeaky clean with no debris in the corner, but be careful not to scratch or dent the seat. To replace the bearing, get a socket that just slides into the bearing seat. You can also grind the outside edge of a bad bearing smaller to use as a press. Again, the key is gently tap on the pressor to reseat the bearing. Then replace the spindle.

Finally there is a tension that is applied to the bearings called "preload" to improve the concentricity of the bearings and spindle. Preload presses the two bearings together to remove play or slop. This is managed by a nut on the far end of the spindle. Tighten the nut until you can't feel any play in the spindle. Run the lathe at high speed and feel the head stock and spindle. They should get noticably warm to the touch, but you should be able to rest your hand on the head stock and spindle after 15 minutes at high speed. If still cold to the touch, tighten the nut, if too hot, loosen the nut. The adjustment is very sensitive and only an eight of a turn at a time is needed. Then retest.


Hope this helps..... Off to church now.

Hope this helps...
 

Boz

Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
371
Location
St. Louis, MO.
Do have access to a press? Properly set up you should be able to get the bearing in. If the pocket the bearing goes in is damaged not so much.
 

candy1land

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
118
Location
Long Beach
Tried turning between centers??? Especially with a light touch on the pressure.

Spindle turning with misalignment works because the spindle end flexes against the drive center and tail center.

But odds are that you got the bearing out of alignment when you started the new one (kind of like cross threading a bolt).

Did you look closely and feel the bearing housing for a burr or the like??



Yes I cleaned and checked the hole, took the new bearings right out of the plastic bag, checked them and attempted to put them right in one at a time. The hole is pristine, no burrs, no edges, for the life of me I can't figure out why this one part won't seed in.


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app
 

candy1land

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
118
Location
Long Beach
Tried turning between centers??? Especially with a light touch on the pressure.

Spindle turning with misalignment works because the spindle end flexes against the drive center and tail center.

But odds are that you got the bearing out of alignment when you started the new one (kind of like cross threading a bolt).

Did you look closely and feel the bearing housing for a burr or the like??



I was turning between centers when I saw how out of round it has become now.


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app
 

candy1land

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
118
Location
Long Beach
Candace; When removing or replacing a bearing, it is important to only press on the outside rim of the bearing. If it went in crooked, it may be possible to reseat the bearing.

To remove the bearing take the spindle out. While you have the spindle out, check the spindle locations when the bearings are located when in place. This is called the "journal" and it is a critical dimension! The bearings should have a firm sliding fit on that part of the spindle. The one closest to the spindle nose may be tighter than the other one. In some lathes these locations may be skimped on resulting in bearings that overheat or don't run true.

Insert a rod either brass or aluminum preferred, or steel. The bearing seat normally has a exposed part of the rim that is visible inside the head stock. Using a small hammer, insert the rod thru the head stock and remove the opposite bearing by tapping gently around the rim of the bearing until it pops free. Do the second bearing just like the first. Make sure the bearing seat is squeaky clean with no debris in the corner, but be careful not to scratch or dent the seat. To replace the bearing, get a socket that just slides into the bearing seat. You can also grind the outside edge of a bad bearing smaller to use as a press. Again, the key is gently tap on the pressor to reseat the bearing. Then replace the spindle.

Finally there is a tension that is applied to the bearings called "preload" to improve the concentricity of the bearings and spindle. Preload presses the two bearings together to remove play or slop. This is managed by a nut on the far end of the spindle. Tighten the nut until you can't feel any play in the spindle. Run the lathe at high speed and feel the head stock and spindle. They should get noticably warm to the touch, but you should be able to rest your hand on the head stock and spindle after 15 minutes at high speed. If still cold to the touch, tighten the nut, if too hot, loosen the nut. The adjustment is very sensitive and only an eight of a turn at a time is needed. Then retest.


Hope this helps..... Off to church now.

Hope this helps...



That is very helpful. I figured out how to remove the bearings without damaging them. I can get them out just fine - I just can't get them in without tremendous force. I don't have a socket to use but I've tried other things - I only tap them on the outer ring. I will check the spindle adjustments you mentioned but if I can't get the bearing to seat then I know it's off. It's off by a few millimeters at least on one side. I've tried to reseat the new on twice and the old one twice and they always end up sticking out slightly in the same spot.

Even when I try to push it in off center on purpose just to see if that high spot would go in that way it still ends up going in flush everywhere but where I'm tapping (on the high side). Which leads me to believe it's the hole.

Again - my choices now are to go to a shop and see if someone who knows more than me can get them in - or just buy a new headstock housing and ask Delta to send it to me with the bearings already installed.

If the hole is the problem - then it won't be worth fixing it. But this is supposed to be a great quality lathe - I'd hate to replace it for at great expense for a $150 all told. Unless going to shop would be cheaper. Which I'm thinking not. I could replace the entire lathe for $500 for something similar.

This is just very frustrating for something so simple. Thanks again.


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app
 

Curly

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
4,828
Location
Saskatoon SK., Canada.
Every mechanical device is made differently by design. Some bearings are a loose fit and held in with another mechanical device and some are a tight fit needing from a gentle press fit to freezing the bearing in liquid nitrogen to shrink fit it into the hole and press it in. In your case it is a light press or interference fit. It will be easier to put the bearing in if you put it in a plastic bag and then into your deep freeze for a few hours. That will make it shrink a little. When ready to install the bearing warm the headstock in the hot sun or with your hair dryer to expand it a little. Then quickly get the bearing and put it in the hole. Don't take it out of the bag until ready to drop it in. Less frost forms on it that way. If you put it in square and hold your tongue right it may drop all the way in and seat. If not light taps on the outer race with a brass or aluminum rod / punch will finish the job.
 

candy1land

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
118
Location
Long Beach
So before I move ahead with more repairs on this thing - is there any chance it's not the bearings causing out of round? Is there any possibility I bent the spindle rod? What I don't want to happen is order a new headstock housing with the bearings installed already and find out I'm still turning off axis and out of round. If I had to replace both the housing and the rod I'd be better off just making this machine a buffer station and getting a whole new lathe. Thoughts? Any way for me to check? When the dead center was in and I was turning the spindle by hand you could see that it was spinning off axis slightly. Which was causing my pen blank to turn out of round by at least a couple of millimeters. So either the crooked bearing is causing this axis issue or the spindle rod is bent now too which I doubt but I wanted to throw that out there too.


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app
 

Curly

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
4,828
Location
Saskatoon SK., Canada.
Have you got a dial indicator?

You put it just inside the mores taper and rotate the spindle by hand. Much more than one thousandth of an inch (0.001") and you have either a bent shaft or poorly machined morse taper.
 

JimB

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
4,683
Location
West Henrietta, NY, USA.
There is a AAW chapter in Torrance. One option would be for you to contact the chapter and ask them if there is anyone in the club that could look at your lathe. The turning clubs are usually very helpful even if you aren't a member. Our club has multiple members who can take apart and reassemble lathes with ease and they are always willing to help other people.
 

PatrickR

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
1,423
Location
Rural America
If I'm following correctly, the bearings are not seating correctly. Meaning they are going in at an angle?
Try the freezer, heat trick. Do not try and drive it in with anything but a piece of tube or a socket. Don't use a dead blow hammer. It removes the feedback to know when it does seat. You should feel it and or hear a change.
Good Luck!
 

frank123

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
613
Location
Colorado
Make a bearing installer from, essentially, a piece of all thread large enough to just go through both bearings with heavy duty oversized washers on each end and use that to draw the bearing in place. Drawing a bearing into place is much more accurate and easier on the bearing than hammering it into place.

It is possible, but not real likely, that you bent the spindle. You can check this easily enough by observing the point of a taper inserted correctly in it to see if it rotates around the exact center of the point or if it the center of the point seems to be rotating in a circle around the axis (use a magnifying glass to be certain).

FWIW, bearings are measured by OD, ID, type, and thickness. They are usually much cheaper from a bearing supplier than from the OEM of the lathe or it's various sales outlets.
 

candy1land

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
118
Location
Long Beach
UPDATE: I'm going to try this again - found a bearing supplier here for much less than Delta! Got 2 of them just in case I mess up again. I have it in the freezer right now - I also have a heat gun I will use to heat up the hole too. I spoke to a great guy who was on the Delta website for local shops and he walked me through some more stuff to try. I went and got a piece of PCV that fits the outer race of the bearing. I'm going to lightly grease the inside of the hole and the outside of the bearing. I also got the right size C clamp as well as a piece of solid perfectly flat metal that I can use to put the C clamp on the pvc piece and line everything up and C Clamp the bearing in gently. It seems that when I tap or hit it goes in at an angle every time and I don't have a press that will work so I am going to try this method now and see if I can distribute the pressure evenly and get it seat in. I may try tapping if the C Clamp doesn't work. Wish me luck! I really want my lathe back.


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app
 

candy1land

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
118
Location
Long Beach
Thank you to everyone for the suggestions - I will look up a local chapter to see if anyone would be willing to help if I fail yet again. And now I know how to check my spindle once it's back in to make sure I didn't bend it in the process of all this madness. At least that's only $40 to replace if I did. Now I just hope I can fix the blank I started that is out of round once this is all back to normal too. Always an adventure - but if I learn how to replace a bearing I'll be pretty happy with that.


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app
 

candy1land

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
118
Location
Long Beach
So I did all of the things you guys suggested - it slid in much easier with the pressure of a C Clamp and still landed unseated in the same exact spot. So I need someone else to try it. I will check into the club in Torrance and then if not I'll get this lathe repair guy to fix it. Obviously this is much more tricky than discussed. UGH!


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app
 

candy1land

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
118
Location
Long Beach
There is a AAW chapter in Torrance. One option would be for you to contact the chapter and ask them if there is anyone in the club that could look at your lathe. The turning clubs are usually very helpful even if you aren't a member. Our club has multiple members who can take apart and reassemble lathes with ease and they are always willing to help other people.



What is AAW and how do I look them up?


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app
 

randyrls

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
4,821
Location
Harrisburg, PA 17112
What is AAW and how do I look them up?

Candace; AAW is the American Association of Woodturners.

This link is a search for local clubs.

Everyone; The AAW is a great organization and well worth joining. They have chapters everywhere, and support the art and craft of woodturning. One of the benefits of membership is you get the "Journal", a magazine of woodturning information AND all the back issues of the magazine going back many years.

They even have a "Virtual Chapter" just for pen turning.
 
Last edited:

candy1land

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
118
Location
Long Beach
What is AAW and how do I look them up?

Candace; AAW is the American Association of Woodturners.

This link is a search for local clubs.

Everyone; The AAW is a great organization and well worth joining. They have chapters everywhere, and support the art and craft of woodturning. One of the benefits of membership is you get the "Journal", a magazine of woodturning information AND all the back issues of the magazine going back many years.

They even have a "Virtual Chapter" just for pen turning.



Thank you!!!


Sent from my iPad using Penturners.org mobile app
 

Charlie_W

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2011
Messages
5,918
Location
Sterling, VA USA
What is AAW and how do I look them up?

Candace; AAW is the American Association of Woodturners.

This link is a search for local clubs.

Everyone; The AAW is a great organization and well worth joining. They have chapters everywhere, and support the art and craft of woodturning. One of the benefits of membership is you get the "Journal", a magazine of woodturning information AND all the back issues of the magazine going back many years.

They even have a "Virtual Chapter" just for pen turning.

And the August issue had some pens on the back cover :biggrin: as well as a pen blank casting article inside!
 
Top Bottom