Pen turning on a 1982 ShopSmith MK V

[JPW062]

Here is my situation.
I live near Shopsmiths old factory, current headquarters and assembly/service plant(I don't think the manufacture the parts any more).
As such all kinds of used machines are available from their previous salesman.
I have a MK V and MK VII(not mark 7). There never seems to be much in the way of accessories though.
I am selling the MK VII as it has some parts missing and they no longer support it(primarily the caster bushings which I can't easily replace without raising the machine).

I should get $300 or a little more for it though(all the base functions work).

The MK V has some run-out. I'm not sure how much, but I would never be able to use it for machining processes. I do not have a Nova G3 or other chuck yet. I hate that I have to get special versions and adapters for everything. I do really like the CVS transmission and controls(spinning manual, not the new electronic).
My bandsaw is a 11" SP tool, so if I sell both machines I need to get a new one. I'd like a 14" or larger. I can get about $125 for it.

Should I take that money and have the quill replaced with a new double bearing quill(~$200), or should I look at selling both to purchase another lathe. I would probably be limited to a midi, so I would be giving up some capacity(16.5X34). I've previously turned small kits(like pizza cutter handle) and some spindle like items. I currently have access to a mini jet and it is perfect for pens which I am currently focused on. Never a bowl and not that interested in it, but I'd hate to get the urge and not be able to do it.

I guess my question boils down to, if I replace the bearings, am I going to have a lathe I am happy with?

I know it is a decision need to make, but looking for some help thinking through it.

 

[MDWine]

I have an old Mark VII too, and I turned pens on it for a long time!
I have the SS bandsaw too.
I have a JET 1232 (or something like that) now too, but I haven't done a lot of turning on it really.

I would think that updating the quill bearings would be less expensive, and the resulting lathe is a darn good one.

Now, during a recent workshop, I used a smaller One Way Lathe, and it was SWEET. That electronic speed control was awesome. But, my Shoppie and my JET have 'reeves' adjustable speed control, and serve me pretty well.

I'd put the bearings in and use it, personally. (not that I'm not going to save up for a HOSS machine like a OneWay or DVR or something, but I'll be OK until then!)

Just my .02

BTW, that new SS Marj 7 with the electronic speed is way cool. Went to a demo, and really wish I had one, mostly for the shaper functionality.

 

[KenV]

I am a Shopsmith owner, and upgraded to the double bearings a long time ago. After using the SS a good long while, I abandoned it for table saw and lathe operations.

If you are going to get proficient and produce higher end pens, you will move to a dedicated lathe. With the band saw and tuned up disc sander and table rigged on the SS, as support, most anything can be done.

Note: metal lathe and casting are separate afflications.

Go for a dedicated lathe and enjoy not having to work around the multitool compromises of 50 years ago.

 

[JPW062]

Note: metal lathe and casting are separate afflications.

Sorry, I just meant to offer that as a standard. I know if I was working in a shop and they set me up on a drill with that much run-out to do anything but a secondary op chamfering an ID, I would raise an eyebrow. I've seen worse in use by others though.

If you are going to get proficient and produce higher end pens, you will move to a dedicated lathe.

What are the deficiencies you found with the SS lathe?


Specifically what reeves product is in use on your shopsmith? I don't see anything in their catalog specific to SS. WHat advantage does it offer over the SS transmission and motor? Is it a drop in accessory or something you rigged?

I like the electrnic speed control on the new SS, but just the head is as much as a large Jet and a good number of accessories. The wider speed range is nice, but it is hard for me to abandon a CVS that is 32 years old and still going strong. I doubt many of those electronic heads will last more than a decade.

 

[KenV]

"SS" = Shopsmith

Mine was purchased as a demo used item about 30 years ago, and was upgraded incrementally, but still has the original reeves style split pulley variable speed drive. It has bee cleaned and reassembled a couple of times.

I have a number of accessories including the bandsaw and joiner. There are several sanding accessories.

The lathe mode is just sloppy. As the spindle extends the runout becomes increasingly sloppy. I measured 30 thousands runout. The tailstock mount is flexible and gets out of alignment easily. While I know how to workaround the limits, I would rather turn than work around limits. I have most all the upgrades for the lathe, and found lots more enjoyment when I moved to a much more rigid, less sloppy lathe.

I can purchase a pretty good Nova lathe with the same engine as the cost of the SS DVR upgrade.

Decent 4 inch joiner, good sanding accessories, workable 12 inch bandsaw so I still have it.

 

[Rockytime]

Interesting. I happen to have very nice Hawk 14" scroll that is built for a ShopSmith. Unfortunately I do not own a SS so would like to sell to a SS owner in my area. It takes up space in my garage.

 

[KenV]

Interesting. I happen to have very nice Hawk 14" scroll that is built for a ShopSmith. Unfortunately I do not own a SS so would like to sell to a SS owner in my area. It takes up space in my garage.

Les -- that should work well on the shopsmith frame. Maybe you will get some interest here.

There are a lot of shopsmith units around, and they are excellent for some things, just not detailed lathe work.

 

[Rockytime]

Here are photos of the ShopSmith scroll saw. Not trying to sell it on this form. Just for information for those who own ShopSmiths who might be curious.. I just motored it and used it that way. I used it as a single speed and it worked beautifully. I have since acquired a larger Hawk VS saw. Hawk is made by RBindustries a premier manufacturer of scroll saws.

 

[Don Rabchenuk]

Done on my 1986 Shopsmith

 

[JPW062]

Thanks for that great information Ken.
.030 sounds about right. Was that with new bearings? I Assume my runout would decrese with new double bearings, but I haven't seen one to be sure and no idea how long they last. The quill extension is just the way it is and a problem even on a new bridgeport, although obviously to a lesser extent.


I think I may make my Mark V a shorty to run the support tools as suggested. They are available relatively cheap compared to dedicated tools. Storage is an issue but consumes less space than stand-alone. Just long enough to get the drill press up. I don't use the table saw. Even my 40 year old 1 HP Craftsman works better except maybe for small items at 90*

Looking for pictures of one of those Hawks set-up on a SS. Looks like it is a SP that runs on the main/upper drive. You did some modifications to get it to run off a belt from what I am seeing. Just did a pulley or more?

 

[MillerTurnings]

I upgraded to the double bearing quill long ago. It still has lots of runout / wobble, especially when turning bowls and vessels which I do a lot of. I got a replacement for it, and it still wobbles. Add the 5/8" slip adapter, and it gets worse. I feel it is inherent to the design. I would opt for a separate lathe. With care and patience, you can turn beautiful things on the SS, just a little tricky using the tools.

 

[Culprit]

JPW062,

My first Shopsmith, a 1955 Greenie (and the one I still use for lathe functions), was given to me as a disassembled basket case. I replaced the bearings in the motor and quill, added a link belt, and my runout is just under 0.001". The runout with my Nova G3 is just slightly over 0.001". I did have to go through three G3 chucks before I got one that ran true. I just kept mailing them back.

Whether you go with a double bearing quill or not (I did not), the key is the grade of bearing you order. Once you find the right size, there are different grades within that size. I forget the nomenclature without digging up my notes, but get the higher precision bearings and you'll be in business. The tailstock is the weak point of the Shopsmith lathe, but I have shimmed and filed and tweaked to the point it is really dialed in now.

I also packed the bench and way tubes with lead wheel weights and tamped them in to add weight and reduce vibrations. I rewired the motor to make it reversible for sanding. Next up will probably be one of Rick Harrell's tool rests.

I love the quill throw - it's long enough to drill a long click or Zen in one shot. A little TLC and you'll have a lathe that will do great things.

 

[Culprit]

Here are the bearings I ordered in 2011 from ebatmus.com. Double check to make sure they aren't bearings for a 1976 Ironhead, but I think I dug up the right old order confirmation email.

One: TIMKEN 202KDD5 BALL BEARING 0.09 LB

Two: TIMKEN 205KDD BALL BEARING 25X52X15MM 2 SHIELDS 0.28 L

Two: TIMKEN 203KDD BALL BEARING 17X40X12MM 2 SHIELD 0.14 LB