Lathe Chisel /Grind/ Purpose Chart?

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leehljp

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Is there a chart that describes:
• Which lathe chisel to use for what cut?
. . . Or what is the purpose of each chisel type for its specialty of cut?
• Which Grind /Shape to use for what cut?

Thanks for any help. I am trying to expand my lathe language and communication ability. :hypnotized:

I am an AAW member but I have never figured out how to find things there.
 
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randyrls

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Hank; You are correct, the AAW Journal index is hideous to use and search. Maybe they could improve it.

I doubt there is any standard nomenclature for the different cuts. But I am interested in the results of your query.... The first step in knowledge is to ask a question.

There are only two different ways to cut wood. Scrapes and cuts.

Scrape: The tool is presented to the wood with the bevel NOT in contact with the wood.

Cut: The tool is presented to the wood with the bevel in contact with the wood and supporting the cutting edge.
 

leehljp

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Thanks Don, that is much more than I was expecting. PLENTY of information there.

I am supposed to be in some meetings all day (in Dallas) but with a bad summer cold and watery eyes, I will stay in at my daughters home and read on this all day. I still have 2 more days of meetings after today, so I won't feel guilty missing today.
 

leehljp

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Randy,

I have tools that I have never used and I have a few bowl (spindle) tools and gouges that I want to try. I bought the Grizzly wet slow grinder 3 or 4 years ago and used it initially for sharpening the already used tools. That worked great, but when I needed to bring my dozen or so unused tools to shape, I discovered the drawback to the Grizzly - needing a full day dedicated to nothing but grinding. Disciplined people will do this. (OK, I confess, I have been lazy.) I now have two CBN wheels, and bringing to shape will be fairly quick. JimB reminded me to use LIGHT touches with the CBN, so I will practice and experiment with that.

That brings me to the fact that I need to use my other tools. I think that by starting off with pen turning, we ("I") tend to not use a lot of tools, and as a result miss out on some great experiences and chances to expand our (my) skill levels.
 
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JimB

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Hank - you ask a good question but unfortunately there isn't a simple answer. There is information out there from various places but it is all incomplete because the options are almost unlimited. What i mean is each turning tool can be used to do many different cuts and each cut can be done with multiple tools. When you add in how many ways you can shape and reshape the tools the list of combinations becomes endless.

Let's say you want to make a candle holder from a 2x2x8 blanks. There are many different tools you could use and each of them can complete the job start to finish. Roughing gouge, Spindle gouge, detail gouge, bowl gouge and skew are all good tools to use. Each can do the job start to finish.

Want to roll a bead? It can be done with a detail gouge, skew, bowl gouge.

Want to turn a bowl? A bowl gouge or heavy scraper can do it.

There are a couple NEVER DO THIS situations. The main one is turning a bowl. Never use a skew or a roughing gouge to turn a bowl.

As far as tool shapes go there are so many possibilities. The real trick is to find the one that works for you. For example bowl gouges can have flutes that are V, U or parabolic. Different people, even professional Turners, will make arguments for why one is better then the other for the same cut but they disagree on which one is best. Then there is the bevel angle anywhere from 40* to 65*. Then there's the shape of the grind, often referred to as a fingernail or swept back grind. How far back it should go and how you should set your jig is different Turner to Turner. Or you can free hand sharpen. Then there is the 'standard' or flat across grind used on many 'bottom feeder' or 'finishing' bowl gouges. Bevel angle is often anywhere from 50* to 70*.

As you can see from the brief examples I have given, the possibilities are endless. I have experimented with different combinations on all my tools and also by using tools that belong to other Turners. I have settled on tools and grinds that work for me but for some tools I have multiple tools with different grinds. For example I have 5 bowl gouges, each with a different grind. On the other hand I have 3 skews with identical grinds because that is the only grind that seems to work for me.

The only way to know what works for you is to experiment. Once you find what works for you then you need to duplicate that each time you sharpen. I've given turning lessons to many people. Most have never turned before. When they have difficulty with a particular cut I give them a different tool to use for the same cut. That will often make a big difference.
 

bmachin

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Hank,

+1 to what Jim says. I can't really add much along those lines.

Both spindle and faceplate turning are hard to learn on your own.

If you can find some hands-on instruction, that would be great.

If you can't I would suggest the Turning Wood book and DVD by Richard Raffan. There may be others that have come down the pike since, but when I was learning spindle and bowl turning he was the best out there.

After that Richard has additional more in depth books and videos on bowls, boxes, etc.

Just my $.02
Bill
 

Woodchipper

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Still consider myself to be new at turning but it has been my observation that there are many ways to grind tools and an equal number of ways to use them.
 

donstephan

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Like Bill I would suggest the book and video combinations by Richard Raffan, as well as his design book. For me they are not "one time" read/watch because there is so much in them, but rather reference material to which I refer at least every other month.
 

Wildman

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Cannot really add much to information already provided. Having wasted a lot of steel learning how to sharpen my turning tools best advice can give is don't worry too much about bevel angles early on. Took awhile to find best bevel angle that worked best for me on bowl gouges have four each with different bevel angles. Spindle gouges pretty much the same as factory grind within a degree or two.

Would recommend buying an inexpensive or expensive angle finder before attempting to change bevel angles.

My angle checker merely two school protractors fasten together with a small bolt & nut in the middle. When closed it's a full circle. For gouges open laying one side along center of gouge inside the flutes and other end along the bevel. Do the same for my scrapers and chisels (parting tools & skews).
 

leehljp

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Thanks for the information fellows. This has been very helpful to me. Most of this, besides the sharpening, is - bit the bullet and just get started. Find out what works for me. That is the basically way that I learned to apply CA finish. Get started, practice and more practice.

Wildman, I have been thinking about an angle gauge. Thanks for that suggestion.
 

Dieseldoc

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Hank:

Not to much more to add to topic.

I for one when first getting into turning attended a class in Utah CSUSA where Richard Raffan was the instructor, so I was able to learn from the start from the master of scrapers and bowl gouges.

Then there is another turner named David Ellsworth who is the master on the fingernail gouge, who has good material in both DVD and books.

Alan Lacer is by far the master of the Skew, he also has DVD and books of instructions. Good You Tube stuff.

So the bottom line of all this is that there are lots of information out there and you just have to gather it up and practice. Don't for get what is on You tube.

Good luck mastering the tools of out trade.

Charlie
 

Wildman

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Think angle finders for measuring what bevel angle came with the tool very helpful information. Lets you look before you leap into wasting steel! If the factory bevel works try to maintain it. Found that's true for spindle gouges, parting tools, bedan, and skews. Bowl gouge and scrapers bevel angles more about bowl design.

Doc Green wrote very short article on the subject, guess he read same Wood magazine tip on makng an angle finder using two protractors!

Bevel Gauge
 

JimB

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Think angle finders for measuring what bevel angle came with the tool very helpful information. Lets you look before you leap into wasting steel! If the factory bevel works try to maintain it. Found that's true for spindle gouges, parting tools, bedan, and skews. Bowl gouge and scrapers bevel angles more about bowl design.

Doc Green wrote very short article on the subject, guess he read same Wood magazine tip on makng an angle finder using two protractors!

Bevel Gauge

I agree about getting an angle finder. I got mine from Home Depot for $10 and it works great for this purpose.

I disagree about manufacturer angles. Different manufactures produce the tools with different angles and just because it 'works' doesn't mean it's a good angle and getting you the best cut. It is a good idea to know what it is as a starting reference but you should still try different bevels. My only tools that I think I left at about the manufacturer angle are my bedan and parting tool. Everything else I changed, even my roughing gouge.

As an example, I had a student just this morning. One tool we covered was the skew. He was happy with how he was doing with it so I asked him to show me. He did a planing cut to show me what he could do. I then gave him my skew that had a much different bevel and I changed the height of the tool rest. He couldn't believe the difference and immediately wanted to reshape his skew.

Some experimenting, even if we think everything is OK, is worth the effort.
 

leehljp

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Thanks Charlie, Bill and Jim.

I am traveling this week but ordered a couple of angle finder to be home when I get there this week end.

I used to have the Alan Lancer's DVD when I lived in Japan. I watched it a couple of times, tried, but still could not get the handle on using the skew on a little short pen blank. Then a friend from the Philippines came for a visit. He came, He saw, he took it home with him - in exchange for a large hunk of amboyna burl he brought in his suitcase.

Jim, Thanks for that information on the angles. Very helpful.

Thanks fellows for the information.
 
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Wildman

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JimB when say look before you leap before changing bevel angles to keep folks from wasting a lot of steel. New turners been advised to take factory straight grind bowl & spindle gouges to either finger nail or side grind (aka Ellsworth, Irish, and other names) to keep from catching regardless of the bevel angle from the factory. As long as get a smooth bevel without a lot facets and able get consistency everytime you re-sharpen life is good.

Once you change geometry of a gouge putting on a figernail or side grind on it what is your new bevel angle? Does it work for you or not? Good time for that angle finder!

Only bought two gouges didn't need to change from square grind to either fingernail ot side grind. One a 9/16" V-grove gouge with Ellsworth grind already on it from Craftsupply don't see that gouge listed anymore. Doug Tompson 5/8" bowl gouge that came with fingernail grind and bevel 55 degrees. Doug says he puts a 60 degree bevel on his gouges, but gouge works well for what I do so haven't changed it.

Best article ever read on bowl gouge bevel angles was in 2007 summer issue of Woodturning Design by Dale Nish explaining why need different bevel angles for different style bowls. At one time could find that article on line. If look at pages 12 & 13 will see same angles & illustrations Dale Nish used for article from Allan Batty's Woodturning notes .

If interested see pages 12 & 13:

http://s12166.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Woodturning_Notes.pdf
 
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