Help for a Newbie, please.

[ShielaMarie]

Hi,
Honestly, calling myself a newbie is actually an understatement. I am being generous with myself. I have experience with whittling, but that is it. I want to ask you all for help. I am looking to buy my tools. I have been reading and researching. But, I really need your honest opinions on tools. I am not looking to invest huge amounts of money that I don't have to spend. And, I don't want to buy super cheap either. Mid range with decent quality. I have access to a variety of wood and so have a lot to start practicing on. Have someone who will instruct me on basic cuts and safety. There is a class for wood turners about an hour from me. Please advise me to what mini/midi lathes you prefer. The companies you feel are stand up in customer service. What cutting tools you love to use. What you know now that you wish you knew then. You name it. I want to hear the great/good, the bad and the ugly. Thank you for the sage advise you can afford me. I appreciate all your help.
Shiela

 

[gtriever]

Even though I can't help you, I'm subscribing to this thread, because you've posted some very good questions, and it looks like there are many people here who are very generous with information. Welcome to the Newbie Club.

Art

 

[ShielaMarie]

Thanks, Art,
I am overwhelmed with all the information out there and don't have the experience/knowledge to sort through it the way I would like to. My foundation for pens right now is from two books and have been reading reviews. And, reviews. And, reviews. I would love to hear from folks who are putting their tools to use and are turning pens. There are many folks who turn all sorts of things I won't be doing.

 

[Dehn0045]

My Jet 1015 lathe works fine for me. Many recommend variable speed, my lathe was given to me so I don't mind moving the belt to change speed. But I would spend the extra $100 on variable speed if I bought one today. A small lathe is fine for pen turning. I suggest going with an inexpensive lathe to start with, if you quit turning then you aren't out much, but if you love it then you can upgrade your lathe and turn your first one into a finishing station. This is what I plan to do someday.

Cheap chisels are fine to start (Harbor Freight or whatever) if you get a sharpening system. You can buy more expensive chisels when you discover what you like. I got a Grizzly wet stone sharpener, Rikon makes a grinder that many go with (a standard bench grinder won't work, different stones and slower speed on the sharpener type). Tormek is the top-of-the-line sharpener, I found other ways to spend the extra $400...

I like my Nova G3 chuck, if you get this and a Jacobs chuck then you can use your lathe to drill the blanks (A quality drill press was too pricey for me...). Many people drill on the lathe even if they own a drill press.

You can use your lathe as a pen press, no need to buy a separate press.

I use a benchtop disk/belt sander to trim the blank flush. I bought a cheap one (WEN) and it works fine. Otherwise you will need a barrel trimmer (which only has one function).

Cutting tools are a whole separate animal. I have several different saws that I had before I started. To start out a hand saw could get you by. In general, I use my table saw more than anything. I have a Dewalt contractor saw that is like $350, it works fine for what I do. If I had the extra money, I would get a Sawstop. Also, I don't have a bandsaw, always have wanted one (I am considering the 14" Craftsman or the Grizzly).

Start slow, buy the bare minimum, find out what you want and go from there.

 

[ShielaMarie]

Thanks, Sam! All good information. I have a circular saw from my dad, a smaller chop saw and an older table saw. Do you think that is a good start for cutting tools? I hand sharpen my whittling knife. I have never used anything electric. Will check out sharpening systems. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. Will do some more homework now.
Shiela

 

[Herb G]

I would advise on buying carbide tipped tools to begin with.
Why? Because you don't have to learn how to sharpen them, or buy the tools to do it with.
Second, here's some links to get you started.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18/starting-out-inexpensively-what-do-i-have-have-134740/

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f18...buy-things-once-what-best-134739/#post1791379

The Library here is a vast compendium of knowledge, boiled down to easy to read posts.
Here's the link to it. The Library - International Association of Penturners

This should keep you busy for months.

Feel free to ask away. The only dumb question is the one not asked.
Enjoy your new hobby.
Welcome to the forum.

 

[KenV]

Shiela, I started and stopped turning a number of times and the cause of stopping was getting tired of fighting cheap poor performing gear. There continues to be a lot of cheap poor performance stuff out there. If that is all you can afford, that is what you do.

Recommendations

Get a 1 by 8 threaded morse taper 2 lathe. These have good tooling available, and are reasonable for power with 3 1/2 or more amps on the motor ( games get played with horsepower, but amps disclosure is health and safety regulations).

There are some good lathes on the market, both new and used. Jet, Rikon, Delta Nova, are good, and I rank ordd based on my experience with them. Variable speed is nice if it fits the budget. I personally do not want to go back to belt changing.

Avoid Harbor Freight unless one is within 30 minutes. Some are good and some are not, but the hassle with bad ones will sour you on turning. There are better tools for about the same cost.

Old spindle turners used short handles on tools. Bowl turners will push long handles. Pen turning is spindle turning and short tools work better in front of the body, and move easier from right to left hand use.

Bens Best from PSI or Amazon (who often beat PSI prices) are decent tools and better than Harbor Freight for shape and heat treat.

I have sharpened with a belt sander upside down in a vise. Works but requires some practice for consistency. 8 inch grinder with wolverine is the hands down most common system, and the WoodCraft 8 inch grinder is everywhere. Wolverine gives consistency pretty easily. Most of us want to make shavings rather than grind steel. Yes, I do have carbide, but use hunter cup cutter (Osprey and Hercules work well for pens). Flat top carbide not so much any more, though Magic Bobs works better than any of the other flat top versions.

I live in Alaska and nothing related to turning or pen turning is very close at hand. You have some of the same challenge.

Have fun

 

[SCjim]

Good advice

Great thread people. I'm a rookie too. Really a lot of info here.

 

[BeeAMaker]

What Herb G said,

There is a guy on these forums making Carbide tools fairly inexpensively,
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f159/any-interest-mini-carbide-tools-147561/

If you go conventional tools, then you will need a sharping wheel either way, cheap tools or expensive ones. Even the best ones get dull. However, if you can afford it, get a cheap roughing gouge. Use it to rough down your blanks, it helps save your carbide.

Here is a review of the Shop Fox lathe that i use,
https://youtu.be/Y8hNjynivu4

 

[Pens By Scott]

Shiela and other Newbies,
I was a newbie not to long ago, didn't find this site until after making about 30 pens or so.
I did find many helpful videos on YouTube.
Showing all kinds of skill... from how to drill a blank, tube it, trim the barrel as well as videos on the use of tools such as the Skew, gouge, etc.

I agree, buying cheaply made tools (lathe) can be problematic... either not true, break down, don't last as long... etc.

Blanks, you can source almost anywhere... Freewood and Firewood are two very excellent species and usually very available.

The 7mm slimline kits are a great starting point (my first 30 were all slimlines), in expensive, but versatile (many articles in the IAP library on how to modify the kits to make different style of pens)

Finishings, many thoughts on those to... Library (IAP) has some info, the forums here, and again.. YouTube

There are also many helpful, knowledgable and genuinely honest Vendors and Members here supporting the craft.

Need any good videos, PM me... i'll dig up some I used to frequent... Russ Fairfield, a great IAP Member from the past, put a number of videos on Youtube, before he passed away... Great source of knowledge and inspiration he was, well at least for me... never pm'd him or talked to him... but the videos helped me get started...

 

[Charlie_W]

Sheila, On IAP home page, there is a column on the right with links to articles. Near the bottom is a link to "Tooling to Make Pens" by Dan Masshardt.
Dan did. Great write up of what is needed, what is not, etc. it is a good resource!

I agree wholeheartedly with Ken as to the quality of equipment and tools.....you get what you pay for. You buy bottom dollar...you get what you get.
Think about the price of a very inexpensive tool or piece of equipment...what you are paying includes the mark up by the middle men and the retailers. What you are buying was produced for probably 1/2 of what you are paying...or even less. So, do you think much quality was implemented in design, fabrication of parts, assembly, testing, etc and still get it to you for that super low price? Probably not.
You can golf with the least expensive clubs available......do the pro golfers use these?? I highly doubt it. Most anything we can buy and use come in different quality levels. Shoes, clothes, pots and pans, paint, cars. Tools are the same way.

As far as Midi lathes, I would lean towards the Rikon first, then the Jet, followed by the Nova Comet.

Good luck in your choices and enjoy pen turning!

 

[Dehn0045]

I agree with Charlie on Dan's write-up, very good info and concise, check it out.

The discussion about tool tool quality makes me think about two different YouTube guys that I watch - Frank Howarth and Mathias Wandel. Frank seems to have endless funds for tools and has a giant shop full, he makes some pretty sweet projects. Mathias basically has a small basement shop and his tools are largely homemade, he's a genius and also makes incredible projects. Put me in either shop and you'd get mediocre stuff, at best. Yes, you need tools, but your skills are much more important when it comes to the quality of your product.

 

[ShielaMarie]

I want to thank everyone for taking the time to share your opinions, information, experiences and the links. I have already started my homework. I will go through the library and see what is there. Thanks for the names of people and equipment to look up as well. I have already watched a few videos. Ken, you listed the names of lathes in order. I am guessing that Jet is your first choice?

I now look at smaller pieces of wood with a whole new appreciation. I live by all sorts of orchards so wood is to be had. They take down trees and do trimming. I have some apricot, cherry, apple and even old lilac. Someone took down a bunch of trees down the road for the city and they cut it up for firewood. They left the smaller logs. There is a birch piece i think I will go scavenge.

You all have shared so much. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the information. I can't wait to get started!
Shiela

 

[joshua_luther77]

I agree with Dehn. The highest quality tools won't make great projects for you. It's the user. I have started with the Harbor freight 10x18 lathe and it is a great little lathe. I can turn pens and small bowls on it. It's a great little lathe to get you started in turning. Certainly if you have the funds to go bigger or get one with variable speed and you know this will be a hobby you're going to enjoy for a long time, then go with a Rikon or Jet. I imagine at some point I will upgrade to a variable speed lathe. But for now, I'm pretty happy with my lathe.

I do suggest buying a barrel trimmer as it greatly reduces the time in flushing up the ends of the blanks after the tubes are glued in as well as cleans out most of the glue inside the tubes.

Start practicing spindle turning on any scrap pieces of wood you have. Experiment with soft wood as well as any hard wood you have. Soft wood is more forgiving, although it will chip out more. Cherry and Poplar are good species to start with.

Also check out Carl Jacobson on YouTube. If you're into listening to audio podcasts, he is also a part of one called Woodturners Anonymous Podcast.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

 

[MDWine]

My first recommendation is to find other turners in your area.

We have, here in Northern Virgina, the Capital Area Woodturners. The club has the tools, talent, and desire to help people learn.

Find a club in your area, even if it is a bit of a travel, attending a meeting or two will yield exposure to the tools and turners. I'd bet you wouldn't have to travel too far.

I found "Mid-Columbia Woodturners" that looks like it is only about 30 mins away. Mid Columbia Woodturners, Tri-Cities, WA, 99336, wood, wood art, wood turners, fine wood art, Robert J. Cutter, Jerry Johnson, Pat Miller, Karen Miller, Alan Carter, John S. Barany

The AAW (American Assoc of Woodturners) is a good national club, as well as local chapter access... look thru their site too (https://aaw.site-ym.com/) [that's where I found mid-Columbia!]


There is going to be a learning curve. Personally, exposure is the first order of business... get to know clubs and turners, see what they have and what they use, get advise from person to person. THAT is hard, I know you want to get to it... spending the research time up front will put you so much farther ahead.

Take a look at the mid-Columbia site, some pretty good stuff there!

Good luck in your quest... seek and ye shall find!

(and you always have IAP!)

 

[ShielaMarie]

Thank you, Joshua and Michael,
I will look up Youtube after chores. This research has been consuming my free time and it has been fun to explore. I get frustrated some times because I still feel out of my league in understanding everything but as you all have pointed out, it comes with time. I will check out the group in the Tri-Ciities. They are in Kennewick and it is a little bit away from me. Now, with increasing daytime light, I can drive into the later hours. I have night blindness and that seems to keep me from ranging too far in the winter.

Michael, I grew up in Dale City. Graduated from Gar-Field High School. Small world.

Btw, to everyone, guess what I found out about tomorrow. An hour west of me in Yakima is a grand opening for a woodworkers store!!!!! They will even cover those of us for smaller woodturning!!! Tomorrow there will be reps there from different companies and I get to put my hands on all sorts of tools. I can't wait. I am so excited to see things in person and ask the reps questions. The lady at the store that I spoke with was super nice and helpful too. I am walking on clouds right now.

Thanks again,
Shiela

 

[KenV]

Shiela

Hands on is great. Enjoy

My listing of lathes had Jet first because of warrenty. I turned on all those I listed at one time or another. I have also turned on several not listed and they are not on my list because of slop, fit, finish, and other quality reasons. With lathes there is similarity to the cheap-Yugo in autos.

P.S. Avoid sets of turning tools as there seem to always be enough in the set that do not get used to make the apparent good price not nearly so good. And they take up space.

 

[ShielaMarie]

Thanks, Ken. I will keep that in mind. Lol, I do remember the Yugo. I will be listing in bullet form everything you all have recommended to me. Kind of a my reminder list as I look at things. This thread has been very helpful to me.
Shiela

 

[splinter99]

What I learned from many years pen turning.
Skip the mandrle, I only turn "between centers"

You dont need alot of fancy tools, In the begining I tried every new tool tkat came out but in the end I found I could do everything with a "Sorby 1-1/2" roughing gouge"

I sharpened everything with a Harbor Freight 8 inch bench grinder with norton stones

The only sandpapar I used was norton 3x, 220 and 400


Learn to do a ca finish, it will give you the best bang for your buck

Have fun and don't over think the turning part

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[luckyscroller788]

You've already got a ton of great advice . I also do recommend a barrel trimmer set (I got a nice set from Rockler, others carry it too). It is very helpful to get the glue out of the tubes after gluing up blanks.
as for your lathe... get the best one within your budget, as long as it has a 1X8tpi headstock spindle thread, and a #2 morse taper. It is so much easier finding accessories to fit them two things. Adjustable Variable speed by just turning a dial is awesome. Is it a necessity? No, but if its in your budget, get it, you wont regret it. Changing a belt from one pulley to another to change speeds really isn't that bad, after done a few times it isn't really that hard, and once you find your sweet spot, you may be able to 95% of your lathework without moving the belt just by adjusting your technique to compensate.
My recommendations for a mini/midi lathe would be in this order, Rikon, then Jet or Delta, then Shop Fox or Turncrafter (same machine, different name), Nova CometII. In your searches on here, you can see a few different threads on choosing a lathe recently, mine was about 2 months ago, and I did choose the Rikon 220VS after trying a bunch out and researching, and I am very pleased with it.
For turning tools, I agree, no need to buy a big fancy set to start out with. I woutld suggest getting yourself a parting tool, a 1/2" spindle gouge, and the 3/4" oval skew, like this one https://www.exoticblanks.com/3-4in-HSS-Oval-Skew-Chisel-Benjamins-Best.html . With that very reasonably priced skew, you can easily take a square blank down to a finished pen without stopping, and it holds a edge great. In my opinion, that was the most bang for my buck on any tool I have ever bought, ever!
Other than a drilling tooling (either on the lathe, or drill press),the only other things you may need are consumables like sandpaper, finishes, adhesives, etc. For pen assembly a quick grip clamp works ok. Some press pens together on their lathe, but I wouldn't do that, it puts a huge amount of stress on the headstock bearings, but to each their own. And, one more thing... time, you will find out time flies by way to fast when your playin' on the lathe!!!!!

 

[leehljp]

Another bit of information in the way of reading here:
http://content.penturners.org/library/general_reference/Getting_started_in_pen_turning.pdf

That is a bit old but it covers numerous subjects that one will come across as they progress in pen turning.

Welcome!

 

[ShielaMarie]

I went to the grand opening yesterday. Thought I would give feedback as best as i can. The store is a nice sized store for our area. They only carry the brands Shopfox, Festool, and Kreg. Not sure if that will change in the future. I didn't want to bother the person I had spoken to on the phone during the grand opening. She was very busy with ringing up customers. They seemed to be doing a great deal of business. They didn't have as much for spindle turners. One chisel set focused at us (pricey and too many tools) and two Shopfox lathes. W1836 and the smaller mini as well. The employees there were very nice and helpful. I was not impressed with the Shopfox rep. He knew his product but was short sighted. I was chomping at the bit to buy a lathe yesterday. I was interested in the 1836. There were a number of questions I had. The one floor employee had to get the rep for me. He came over and answered two of my questions and when I went to ask another, I found he had walked off while I was moving the lever he pointed out. He completely dismissed me. Not sure if it was because I was a woman or he was just an imbecile. Not many women in there shopping for themselves. There were a few that accompanied their spouses who were shopping. However, my questions were those of a person looking to buy. He lost the sale for him and the store. Have decided to buy the Delta 46-460. Will order that through HomeDepot. They had a lot of tools for larger work and hand carvers. The variety of wood was really nice. That rep was completely helpful and knowledgable. And you should have seen the exotic wood blanks they had there. Was geared for those who turn bowls but could cut them down to pen blanks too. They had these boards that were purple heart wood from Africa. Like I said the store employees were nice and helpful as well. I was a little disappointed there wasn't as much offered to spindle turners but they just opened and I am sure they will grow from there. I will call Corolla tomorrow and chat with her about my experience and wish list. I still had fun just looking around and knowing there is now a woodworkers store only an hour away.

Now, i will see what I need to add to get started. Rockler has a three tool set that seems pretty nice. Carbide. Still feeling my way around but want to get started. The Delta has a five year warranty for parts and labor. Has anyone had any experience with these folks? For the same price as the Shopfox I can get the Delta 46-460. The videos I have see with it, it is very smooth and quiet.

 

[leehljp]

I enjoyed your report on the opening. I am by nature introverted but learned to make myself act like an extrovert in order to operate in an extrovert world. Not fun, but when asking questions where I am learning and observing, I get the same response you did! They just walk off! I don't have that "I'm about to buy one" look, even though I am chomping at the bits!

One note to your last paragraph statement "Carbide" and "Spindle": If you are doing pens only, Carbide will do great. There are certain times that carbide tools are not totally optimal but will certainly do very well. ON softer non-stabilized woods, a carbide, as a scraper will do a pretty good job but still rough cutting on soft woods. A skew does a much better and smoother job on soft woods that have not been stabilized. If you sand the "rough" finish down to size, that is not a problem.

Now to the "carbide" other factor. Carbide is excellent for what it does, but if you go to larger spindles and bowl turning or vase turning, other tools will be needed. These will very likely NOT be carbide. At this point, sharpening, a knowledge of sharpening and experience in sharpening come in handy. IF you had not written "spindle" turning, I would have surmised that you intend to stay with pens. Carbide will do well in that environment, but expand into spindles of different sizes, you will may need tools that are not carbide, which will require sharpening and the experience and skill needed that goes with sharpening. This is not a warning to avoid carbide, but to let you know the reason the other kinds of tools exist and what is needed if you intend to do more than pens alone.

I suspect you have a good background on wood and tools already. You have too much knowledge of tools to have suddenly just started!

 

[luckyscroller788]

well, I am sorry you were not treated as you should have been, and I applaud you for not letting your anxiety drive you to buy a tool you weren't 100% sure of. The Delta is a much better machine than the ShopFox anyways, you cant go wrong there. I was going to mention that Woodcraft is having a great sale on the Rikon 220VS lathe ($549) right now, but I don't know if theres a Woodcraft near you.
As for tools,the skew I mentioned in my previous post on this thread is the only tool I use now to turn a pen from a square blank to finished size, unless I need a parting tool to turn a tenon on some styles. For $13 bucks and change, you get a nice tool. I haven't found the need for carbide turning tools myself, not yet anyways.Tools and accessories can get expensive in a hurry.

 

[joshua_luther77]

I'll post a picture of my sharpening​ setup on my lathe later after I get home from work. I basically have a stone mounted into my Jacobs chuck and I sharpen right on my lathe. It gets me by.

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[mecompco]

Before buying turning tools, at least check this out. The "Magical Skew" is great, because it is set up to set on the tool rest at a skew-like angle. You can also hold it flat. If I had to pick one tool that increased my productivity and turning enjoyment, this is it. I use the R2 cutter exclusively, though the tool will accept square and round cutters as well. With this tool, there is no need for grinders, jigs, etc. If you want to sharped your carbide cutters instead of just replacing them, an inexpensive set of diamond hones works well.

DELUXE MAGICAL SKEW - T. Shadow & Co. LLC

R2 cutters are available for about $6.00 here: AZ Carbide - Carbide Cutters & Inserts for Woodturning Tools

 

[joshua_luther77]

Here is my sharpening setup for my lathe tools.

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[Curly]

Joshua it may be the picture but your wheel looks like it is glazed. The shiny surface means the grit is getting rounded over and dull. The wheel needs to be dressed. It will cut cooler and better if you do.

 

[joshua_luther77]

Joshua it may be the picture but your wheel looks like it is glazed. The shiny surface means the grit is getting rounded over and dull. The wheel needs to be dressed. It will cut cooler and better if you do.

Thank you.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

 

[ShielaMarie]

Hello Everyone,
Thank you again. You have been a wealth of information. I am getting the Delta 46-460. It is on its way to the store. Delivery was suppose to be May 8th but has now been moved to the 11th. I ordered my first three tools from Rockler. They are carbide for now. I will need to learn to sharpen on the tools suggested. I have only used stone or strop for my whittling knives. I am quite comfortable with that and know how to get a good edge on them, but this will be different. The handles on the Rockler set (3) have handles that look like I can use pretty well. We'll see. I will be practicing a lot on some inexpensive blanks I had from awhile back for whittling. Been watching a lot of videos. I did buy a pen kit but that will come to use when I feel I am ready. I will post my practices to see what you all have to give in thought/advise. I am doing a lot of reading on this site as well.

Thank you again for all your help. This is a great group of folks.