Chamfer VS Spotting Bits

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PatrickR

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I often see some confusion regarding these and their use. Most pen turners drill tube holes through a square blank. Often a starting bit is recommended and I always use one but a chamfer bit is not the best one to use and is probably just a waste of time. They have their uses. Mainly for us as creating the point of contact between a blank and a live center. If you don't TBC before gluing in tubes you don't need one. Get a true spotting bit, it will do a much better job.
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Dieseldoc

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Patrick:

I have always use Drill point for all drilling of blanks and found it to be helpful to keep the main bit from seeking it own center just as long as the counter bore is deep enough to be the same as the drill bit used.

Now I can see the use of how using the point bit may be better drilling blank.

I will pick one up and see what the difference in drilling is.

Thanks good info.


Cheers

Charlie
 

PatrickR

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Very welcome guys. Right tool for the right job kind of thing.

Charlie. The one I have (in pic) was not cheap but I only need one and have not had to sharpen it, used in all sorts of materials including soft metals. Bonus - MIUSA
 

Dieseldoc

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Patrick:

I check my Western tool Supply book and It $32.55 . Local supply house that has a will call , Will pick it up on Wednesday , going for the 3/8 5 inch OAL

The problem some get into is not understand what end grain can cause.
If the wood is soft and not stabilized . I will use CA on the end to help keep the drill centered at the start.

Again thanks for the info.

Cheers

Charle
 

mark james

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Could you give a bit more detail why the spotting bit is preferable? I have been using chamfering bits for my segmented blanks, with good success, but am very open to suggestions.

I appreciate any more details for a "bit-naive turner."
 

Curly

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Because the spot drill has the same tip angle as your drill bit it brings the tip of the drill into alignment by the point and cutting edges. The centre drill as I have always heard it called makes a hole that catches the corners of the cutting flute. Not so important in a harder material but soft stuff like wood and resin may not start the drill bit as well.
 

Dieseldoc

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Because the spot drill has the same tip angle as your drill bit it brings the tip of the drill into alignment by the point and cutting edges. The centre drill as I have always heard it called makes a hole that catches the corners of the cutting flute. Not so important in a harder material but soft stuff like wood and resin may not start the drill bit as well.

PETE:
Well put !!!! that is exactly what happens durning drilling.


Cheers

Charlie
 

mark james

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Because the spot drill has the same tip angle as your drill bit it brings the tip of the drill into alignment by the point and cutting edges. The centre drill as I have always heard it called makes a hole that catches the corners of the cutting flute. Not so important in a harder material but soft stuff like wood and resin may not start the drill bit as well.

Gotcha! Thanks, that makes sense.
 

bmachin

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A couple of other things that may be worth mentioning:

1. The very tip of a center drill usually has an angle of 120 degrees and is usually sufficient to catch the point of the drill that you are going to use to drill your hole.

2. MOST drills have a 118 degree included angle but there are a lot of 135 degree drills out there as well. I have both and use a 140 degree spotting drill for all of my holes. I suspect it would be better to use a 120 for the 118 drills, but the 140 seems to work OK.

3. NEVER use a center drill to start a hole for a carbide drill in metal if you want to keep your drill for future use.

FWIW,
Bill
 

bmachin

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Can't really explain it since I'm just parroting what I've read. I think that the problem is that carbide is brittle and if you try to start a carbide drill at some place other than the point you are subjecting a delicate edge to what is in reality an impact type of stress.

Just my guess. Maybe a real machinist can clarify it.

Bill
 

Woodster Will

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I've been using Spotting drills to start holes for many years. I used to use Centre drills but I had a hole in a brass bush end up slightly off so I made the switch. It's quite surprising how many machinists are unaware of spotting drills.

Attached picture shows two spotting drills on the left, then a drill mill and a chamfering mill on the right. :wink:
 

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JPW062

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I love carbide in CNC machines.
I have had very very poor experience with carbide in manual machines. Both in one-off work I have done myself and in watching set-ups done for small volume runs. Carbide needs to be fed very smoothly at the correct rate and the machine settings must also be correct. It is simply too brittle for most operators. It is very difficult to feed smoothly and not get those impact stresses on the leading edge.

The scenario above seems to be an example where the stress could be amplified.

Running carbide into soft wood or acrylic would not be as problematic, but there are limited benefits, especially for a hobbyist. There are thousands of grades of carbide and the ones marketed to woodworkers are generally on the lower end of the spectrum. When I worked in a shop that used very expensive HSS drills, I salvaged a bunch out of the scrap bucket and resharpened. They work extremely well. They resharpen better than carbide. The chance of a chip from impact of some sort is much less.

If you had someone running a drill press for an 8 or 10 hour shift making a repetitive operation in wood a good carbide drill might make sense to me. Either way I think your stoppages will be to clean the bit, not sharpen it, so it wouldn't matter what material was used.

I would suggest anyonehaving trouble drilling perform the calculations for their tools and materials and make sure their machine is on the correct speed. One of my pet peeves is when I go into someones shop and they just drill everything on the same RPM. A 5/8 drill should not be run at the same speed as a 5mm. You can often get away with it in wood, but it is hard on the tools, causes burns in the wood, and other issues. In metal it just isn;t possible to do so. The machine will crash.
 
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Paul in OKC

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We used to have a manual mill in the back of the shop that the mechanic used. I could tell from the front of the shop when he drilled something. I would walk back, adjust the rpm, and for a small bit. Later I could hear the squalling and would find him drilling a one inch on the same speed I set for a 1/4" bit.
As for center drills in metal with carbide drills, for many drilling operations the carbide drill is stiff enough to use without center drilling, but I generally always use a spotting bit for them. they allow for a full flute contact, as where a center drill gives partial at first which can cause 'snagging' and chipping the bit.
 

duncsuss

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I would suggest anyone having trouble drilling perform the calculations for their tools and materials and make sure their machine is on the correct speed.
Can you point me in the direction of a guide for this? I know that I've got to slow down the drill for larger diameter bits, and for metal compared to wood, but I have zero idea how to compute the correct speed. I guess and hope for the best, throw away the first workpiece and try again, etc.
 
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