40W lasers discussion

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Carl Fisher

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I didn't want to derail the other thread on the cool little NEJE machines but a few questions were posed that I wanted to answer.

As for what machine, this is the one I bought:
40W USB DIY Laser ENGRAVER Cutter Engraving Cutting Machine Laser Printer CO2 | eBay

It is the newest 2015+ version with the upgraded M2 control board and such. It uses CorelDraw and CorelLaser instead of the old moshidraw software. I actually find this setup quite easy to use but still plan to do a smoothieboard upgrade at some point to do true gcode and color coded operations such as PWM power modulation to the laser, etc...

As for as work holding and such, I recommend ditching the included table and buying a honeycomb table or making your own table. lots of options out there in the DIY community. Then your next hurdle will be table height. Right now I'm just setting blocks of wood under the table to set my height, but will work on a table jack at some point in the near future along with a rotary of sorts.

I'll see if I can find some examples of indexing and setup to answer Keith's question from the other thread but it'll be a bit later as I'm on my way out the door.

There are also a few must have upgrades that I'll cover when I get back.
 
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Carl Fisher

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Ok, a few must have upgrades.

If you are going to cut anything you will want an air assist head. The bonus to that is that if you get the one from lightobject it will allow you to put in an 18mm focal lens which is an overall better quality lens than the included lens. A nice high quality ZnSe lens will make your machine happy.

The exhaust port and fan that come with these units are pure garbage. Remove the port completely and then put a 4" boat bilge blower inline with your exhaust hose. It's 12v so allow for that but you'll be much happier and much healthier for both you and your machine.

Next would be a targeting laser. I'm using a cross shaped laser that paints about a 2" cross hair mark on my target. I've also seen it with single dot lasers, laser pointers, combiners, etc... it's just about how much you want to spend.

And eventually if you're into tinkering with the machine you can visit upgrades to a smoothieboard or similar. These will bypass the need for the CorelLaser and allow you to use any g-code software. This allows things like color coded lines for cut vs engrave in one operation, PWM modulation of the laser to allow for gray scale style engraving and overall more control of the machine. With the base controller and software you have to manually dial in your power setting and you can't vary it during the job with any accuracy. However if you just want to do simple engraving and cutting, this is perfectly acceptable.
 

Carl Fisher

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Carl, Will this laser cut 1/8" rubber sheet? Also, what do you mean about raising the table? Is that to focus the laser?

I don't see why not. It burns ebonite for engraving at about 1/5 of it's power setting. Just make sure you are not burning anything that will release toxic gas such as PVC based materials. They release chlorine gas among other nasties.

As for moving the table, yes. You want to keep the laser focus lens at a set distance from your work piece. Most are 50.1mm but there are some various others for shorter focus ranges.

So when I'm doing flat sheet acrylic I need to raise the table higher than if I'm doing a pen body in a v-block for work holding or a box lid, etc...

You make yourself a 50mm block or any number of other designs of focus distance checking jigs and bring your table up to that height. There are powered z-axis tables out there but I'm going to make my own lab jack with a small stepper to give a DIY powered Z. Until then I'm doing it the manual way with blocks of wood and shims under the table to get the height where I need it.
 

Carl Fisher

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A note on metal. A 40W laser isn't nearly enough to engrave metal. So don't expect to engrave bands or clips or the like.

However there are some chemicals on the market such as Thermark (expensive) or you'll see moly lube (cheap but various degrees of success) used as well where when the laser hits it, the coating bonds to the metal leaving an embossed marking. This is on top of the surface of the metal, not engraved into it so it may wear eventually.
 

keithbyrd

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I didn't want to derail the other thread on the cool little NEJE machines but a few questions were posed that I wanted to answer.

As for what machine, this is the one I bought:
40W USB DIY Laser ENGRAVER Cutter Engraving Cutting Machine Laser Printer CO2 | eBay

It is the newest 2015+ version with the upgraded M2 control board and such. It uses CorelDraw and CorelLaser instead of the old moshidraw software. I actually find this setup quite easy to use but still plan to do a smoothieboard upgrade at some point to do true gcode and color coded operations such as PWM power modulation to the laser, etc...

As for as work holding and such, I recommend ditching the included table and buying a honeycomb table or making your own table. lots of options out there in the DIY community. Then your next hurdle will be table height. Right now I'm just setting blocks of wood under the table to set my height, but will work on a table jack at some point in the near future along with a rotary of sorts.

I'll see if I can find some examples of indexing and setup to answer Keith's question from the other thread but it'll be a bit later as I'm on my way out the door.

There are also a few must have upgrades that I'll cover when I get back.

Thanks Carl - I bought mine last fall and it engraves nicely. For me it is trial and error to get the setting correct to engrave where I want it to! I agree totally on the exhaust - still using the original but would like to upgrade - I appreciate any advice you can offer!!!
 

Carl Fisher

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Here is a running total of what I've spent so far. Not all of this is required if all you want to do is engrave pens, but many are considered must have upgrades by the Chinese laser community.

Machine:
40W CO2 Chinese laser with the latest M2 Nano board and CorelDraw/CorelLaser compatible
40W USB DIY Laser ENGRAVER Cutter Engraving Cutting Machine Laser Printer CO2 | eBay

Exhaust upgrades
4" bilge blower (12v)
Amazon.com : Attwood Quiet Blower (White, 4-Inch) : Boat Blowers : Sports & Outdoors

4" vinyl flexible duct
http://www.amazon.com/Dundas-Jafine-FD420ZW-Flexible-4-Inches/dp/B001PQDUA0

4" dust collection port
http://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-70150-Rectangular-Dust-4-Inch/dp/B00M3JFNOO

Target Laser
http://www.amazon.com/Focusable-650nm-Module-driver-Plastic/dp/B00S1EXW3Y

Laser Holder
K40 CO2 Laser Dual Head Laser Holder for 10mm or 12mm | eBay

LED Voltage Meter for setting the laser power
http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Digital-Voltage-Voltmeter-Monitoring/dp/B00C58JGE6

Light Object water pressure sensor
http://www.amazon.com/Lightobject-LSR-H2OPRSNR-Pressure-Sensor-Protection/dp/B00HUC5FC4

Air pump for air assist head
Amazon.com: EcoPlus 728450 1 to 18W Single Outlet Commercial Air Pump, 793 GPH: Patio, Lawn & Garden

18mm head with air assist
18mm Laser head w/ air assisted. Ideal for K40 machine

18mm ZnSe focus lens with 50.8mm focal length
Improved 18mm ZnSe Focus lens (F50.8mm)

300x200 honeycomb bed
300X200 Honeycomb. Fit K40 machine
 

Joey-Nieves

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Carl:
This is very, very useful, I was waiting for the other thread to dye down to ask this question, but this topic is trending at the moment.

I want a laser for engraving pens, cutting parts, inserts and maybe try to make inlay blanks, and the NEJE will serve one purpose, engraving pens.

After verifying you list it goes up to $580 + shipping witch is very good when you compare to a $10,000

Do you have a link for instructions on how to make these upgrades?
 

Maverick KB

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I had a blast a couple years ago when I got my K40. The old Moshi software was junk and the control board was horrible. The thing would routinely just take off cutting a line at a 45 degree angle, destroying any piece I had positioned in the bed.

I upgraded the control board and software, installed a motorized lift bed and all new wiring and guts. I must say, I certainly learned a lot with this project. Even though it cost me almost twice as much in the end, the results were fantastic and the lessons learned were very useful when I ventured into a Parana CNC router for small signs and pen box engraving. The only issue I have with a 30-40W CO2 is the number of passes it takes to cut 1/8" ply, but as long as you can avoid a fire... it will do the job. Crazy scorch marks and you'll get an appreciation for the focus of the laser when you examine the angle of the cuts.

If you don't mind tinkering, know or are willing to learn basic electronics, and have some patience this can be a very rewarding project and a valuable tool. Once you gut and rebuild one of these, the mystery is removed and you'll be wanting to build larger lasers and CNC machines. This can start an addiction... you've been warned.
 

duncsuss

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Carl -- Thanks for the time you've put into gathering all this information and sharing it -- at some point I know that I'll outgrow the toy that I just bought (the 1000mW Neje) and want to get something like this.

Do you think it can be used to cut thin Kevlar sheets? I have some that I'm using to make templates for airbrushing -- right now I'm limited to my skill with an X-acto blade, this would open up new possibilities.
 

Carl Fisher

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Ken isn't kidding. This is an addiction and a disease :) It started with me building my own CNC, now the laser. Now I'm looking at 3D printers...it just never ends.

As for instructions, nothing formal and just takes a small degree of tinkering. These machines aren't that complex and once you understand the basics they are really easy to work with. The longest/hardest process is making sure all of the mirrors are properly aligned and then dealing with focal length issues for deep cuts as Ken mentioned above. Some of that can be mediated by upgrading to a powered Z-axis and a new control board, but now you're adding on about another $400 when all is said and done. It's not a requirement, but you'll understand when your cut is on a slight angle because the beam widens out as it passes it's focal point.

The NEJE is a great machine if you only want to engrave wood pens or small items. However as soon as you want to do other materials such as plastics or do any cutting you'll need to move up.

And the new M2 board is an improvement over the old moshidraw board. I'm planning to stick with it for a while and use the heck out of it until I'm really ready for my stage 2 upgrades.
 

Carl Fisher

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Do you think it can be used to cut thin Kevlar sheets? I have some that I'm using to make templates for airbrushing -- right now I'm limited to my skill with an X-acto blade, this would open up new possibilities.

My understanding is that you can't get through real carbon fiber, so I'm guessing Kevlar is out of the question. The resin burns fine but the cloth laughs at the 40W laser. Based on my research anyway.

I have a sheet of composite carbon material here I was going to try to cut but I don't have high hopes.
 

duncsuss

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Do you think it can be used to cut thin Kevlar sheets? I have some that I'm using to make templates for airbrushing -- right now I'm limited to my skill with an X-acto blade, this would open up new possibilities.

My understanding is that you can't get through real carbon fiber, so I'm guessing Kevlar is out of the question. The resin burns fine but the cloth laughs at the 40W laser. Based on my research anyway.

I have a sheet of composite carbon material here I was going to try to cut but I don't have high hopes.

I just checked -- the stuff I've got isn't Kevlar, it's Mylar, I believe 0.01" thickness (10 mil).

Sorry for the misleading question, my brain gets stuck in neutral this time of the day :rolleyes:
 

sailing_away

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Yes a CO2 laser will cut through Mylar. It slices right through it like butter. I've used my CO2 laser to cut through Mylar to make templates and mock up flexible circuit boards for work.
 

keithbyrd

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Carl,
Your response to my question and thoroughness of the answers and links to information is impressive and appreciated. People like you are why the IAP continues to be a great place to go and be part of!
Thank you.
 

Carl Fisher

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I'm currently working with someone who has a 3D printer and a design for a different style of targeting laser. This one will allow a single dot laser to fire into the secondary mirror and paint an accurate target through the laser head while the lid of the machine is open. When you close the lid it will pivot the targeting laser out of the path of the main laser.

I'm finding that I don't like the way my targeting laser is setup as it can vary if your not targeted right at the focal length of the work piece and it's skewed since it sits off to the side of the laser head.

The new one should remove all of that guess work.

You can see a version of it on Thingiverse here: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1002341
 
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mecompco

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I'm currently working with someone who has a 3D printer and a design for a different style of targeting laser. This one will allow a single dot laser to fire into the secondary mirror and paint an accurate target through the laser head while the lid of the machine is open. When you close the lid it will pivot the targeting laser out of the path of the main laser.

I'm finding that I don't like the way my targeting laser is setup as it can vary if your not targeted right at the focal length of the work piece and it's skewed since it sits off to the side of the laser head.

The new one should remove all of that guess work.

You can see a version of it on Thingiverse here: Laser pointer for K40 Chinese CO2 Laser by ThorMJ - Thingiverse

Very cool, and I have access to a 3D printer. Now I want a 40 watt unit! Sadly, the wallet is a bit flat ATM. :frown:
 

BradG

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Hey Carl,
Thanks for creating this thread. I couldn't see it yesterday hence why I started one - have since asked for it to be deleted :redface:

Just food for thought, but an anodised metal pen can have the anodising removed by laser. We may not be able to etch metal at these powers, but I would think stripping anodising would be a better approach than using the marking compounds which as you said, may wear off with time. Anodising is pretty permanent as you know. Needless to say I'm looking into this so I can put names on my pens professionally, but id like to experiment with graphic effects too.


I've been eyeing up this one. Quite a price jump for the one you're using. Would you mind having a read to see what you think?

PRO 50W CO2 Desktop USB Laser Engraving Cutting Machine Cutter Engraver | eBay

This one comes with a Rotary attachment.


Could I ask what you do with regards to the water cooling?
 
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Maverick KB

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I'm currently working with someone who has a 3D printer and a design for a different style of targeting laser. This one will allow a single dot laser to fire into the secondary mirror and paint an accurate target through the laser head while the lid of the machine is open. When you close the lid it will pivot the targeting laser out of the path of the main laser.

I'm finding that I don't like the way my targeting laser is setup as it can vary if your not targeted right at the focal length of the work piece and it's skewed since it sits off to the side of the laser head.

The new one should remove all of that guess work.

You can see a version of it on Thingiverse here: Laser pointer for K40 Chinese CO2 Laser by ThorMJ - Thingiverse

I would be concerned about 2 things off the bat.
1. The width of a focusing laser may not match the diameter of the laser from the tube and therefore you may not get an accurate focus on your Z axis.
2. The laser and pivot arm would have to be mounted to the case and not the lid as the lid may have too much play in the hinges over time and not rest in exactly the same place. That would mean a mechanical lift arm in the way of my gantry, but you might have more room than me.

For these reasons I'm more a fan of two dot lasers on either side of my laser head (3D printing a mount is easy) placed at a calculated angle so that the dots overlap at a fixed focal point. I have a motorized bed for Z axis, so I would simply raise or lower the piece until my red dots join. Then I have not only my focal point but also my virtual zero if I'm trying to hit a specific point on a piece of material.

Just my preferences as food for thought.

edit*
Here are the focusing lasers i picked up. They work quite well and the individual focus on them helps with macro adjustments in the 2 laser setup.
http://www.lightobject.com/5mW-650nm-Red-Laser-pointer-with-adjustable-focus-point-P585.aspx

The mod you mentioned is a simple version of a beam combiner. Like this http://www.lightobject.com/Laser-machine-25mm-beam-combiner-mount-with-laser-pointer-P1000.aspx

Certainly not a bad way to go, I just liked this option better... something like this: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:558587
 
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Maverick KB

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Here are some of the upgrades i used on mine:

New brains! No more Moshi. That board and software was so bad on mine it was this or the dump.
X7 DSP upgrade kit for D/K40 small CO2 laser machine

I put the motorized bed in. This was a game changer!!!
Power table/ bed kit for K40 small laser machine

In the end, I probably over spent and could have built a better bigger one from scratch, but I learned a lot. I also upgraded the water pump with a pond pump from Lowes, upgraded the exhaust fan, replaced the mirrors & the focusing head, added air assist and zero stop switches... basically, I only kept the case, the laser tube and the X, Y gantry (which I had to modify so it ran true).

I may build a new frame and gantry system and transplant my guts for a larger work area. Then, when my tube dies, i can replace it with an 80W tube or better.

See... it never ends...
 

Sylvanite

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Just food for thought, but an anodised metal pen can have the anodising removed by laser. We may not be able to etch metal at these powers, but I would think stripping anodising would be a better approach than using the marking compounds which as you said, may wear off with time.

Be aware that laser-engraving anodized metal does not simply remove the anodizing. I've engraved a variety of anodized aluminum items (dog tags, flashlights, pocket knives, etc.). The laser leaves a white mark, not silver. Also, the mark tends to flow a little, so don't expect the same resolution you can get on other materials.

I hope that helps,
Eric
 

BradG

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Just food for thought, but an anodised metal pen can have the anodising removed by laser. We may not be able to etch metal at these powers, but I would think stripping anodising would be a better approach than using the marking compounds which as you said, may wear off with time.

Be aware that laser-engraving anodized metal does not simply remove the anodizing. I've engraved a variety of anodized aluminum items (dog tags, flashlights, pocket knives, etc.). The laser leaves a white mark, not silver. Also, the mark tends to flow a little, so don't expect the same resolution you can get on other materials.

I hope that helps,
Eric

Hi Eric. what wattage laser do you have?

I am aiming for this level.
L3.jpg
 

Carl Fisher

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Carl,

What do you think of this version of the 40W CO2 laser:

40W CO2 Laser Engraving Cutting Cutter Machine ENGRAVER USB Port High Precise | eBay

Do you feel that the upgraded controls included are worth the extra money as a starting point?


I've been following a bit of talk on the newest version on the market, but so far nobody has owned up to buying one.

It has some neat upgrades but I have to wonder if they are quality upgrades or just something thrown in cheaply to try to get a leg up in a very competitive market.
 

Turned Around

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Carl,

What do you think of this version of the 40W CO2 laser:

40W CO2 Laser Engraving Cutting Cutter Machine ENGRAVER USB Port High Precise | eBay

Do you feel that the upgraded controls included are worth the extra money as a starting point?


I've been following a bit of talk on the newest version on the market, but so far nobody has owned up to buying one.

It has some neat upgrades but I have to wonder if they are quality upgrades or just something thrown in cheaply to try to get a leg up in a very competitive market.

I came back to revisit this one, but eBay sends me to a listing for a set of lights used by DJs.
 

Carl Fisher

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Carl,

What do you think of this version of the 40W CO2 laser:

40W CO2 Laser Engraving Cutting Cutter Machine ENGRAVER USB Port High Precise | eBay

Do you feel that the upgraded controls included are worth the extra money as a starting point?


I've been following a bit of talk on the newest version on the market, but so far nobody has owned up to buying one.

It has some neat upgrades but I have to wonder if they are quality upgrades or just something thrown in cheaply to try to get a leg up in a very competitive market.

I came back to revisit this one, but eBay sends me to a listing for a set of lights used by DJs.

Hah! That's funny. I didn't think they reused links like that.
 

Carl Fisher

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Yes or no. Vague enough answer for you?

I had to spin up an old laptop with Windows 7 so I could run CorelDraw without issue. When I try to run it on my Windows 10 laptop Corel can get a bit funny. The menu system is messed up and the layers go haywire once in a while. I didn't want that happening during a burn and messing up a work piece.

However some claim it's working fine. I'm using Corel X7 if I recall (I'll check tonight) and it works fine with the CorelLaser overlay that comes with the machine. The CorelDraw v12 that they include is complete junk and likely a counterfeit anyway.

Now if you decide to swap out the Moshi board for one of the various upgrades such as a Smoothieboard, Ramps or Arduino/Grbl setup you can use any OS you want with the appropriate g-code sender. There are plugins for Inkscape and many others that will allow you to send directly to the laser if you go this route and if you get something that is PWM capable you'll even be able to engrave grayscale pretty well in addition to color coding your drawing for different operations. i.e. red lines for cut, various colors for engraving at different power levels, etc... Lots of fun to be had.
 

Joey-Nieves

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Yes or no. Vague enough answer for you?

I had to spin up an old laptop with Windows 7 so I could run CorelDraw without issue. When I try to run it on my Windows 10 laptop Corel can get a bit funny. The menu system is messed up and the layers go haywire once in a while. I didn't want that happening during a burn and messing up a work piece.

However some claim it's working fine. I'm using Corel X7 if I recall (I'll check tonight) and it works fine with the CorelLaser overlay that comes with the machine. The CorelDraw v12 that they include is complete junk and likely a counterfeit anyway.

Now if you decide to swap out the Moshi board for one of the various upgrades such as a Smoothieboard, Ramps or Arduino/Grbl setup you can use any OS you want with the appropriate g-code sender. There are plugins for Inkscape and many others that will allow you to send directly to the laser if you go this route and if you get something that is PWM capable you'll even be able to engrave grayscale pretty well in addition to color coding your drawing for different operations. i.e. red lines for cut, various colors for engraving at different power levels, etc... Lots of fun to be had.
I have the same problem with corelDraw. After doing some reading on the internet I found the most insane solution but it worked. I have only one account on my Laptop, me with administrator privileges, so you would think that I'm the administrator, well I had to open another account as the administrator, so to use Corel I have to login to this account an only use corel. I hope it works for you, like I said sounds stupid,but it works.
 

hanau

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Here is a running total of what I've spent so far. Not all of this is required if all you want to do is engrave pens, but many are considered must have upgrades by the Chinese laser community.

Machine:
40W CO2 Chinese laser with the latest M2 Nano board and CorelDraw/CorelLaser compatible
40W USB DIY Laser ENGRAVER Cutter Engraving Cutting Machine Laser Printer CO2 | eBay

Exhaust upgrades
4" bilge blower (12v)
Amazon.com : Attwood Quiet Blower (White, 4-Inch) : Boat Blowers : Sports & Outdoors

4" vinyl flexible duct
http://www.amazon.com/Dundas-Jafine-FD420ZW-Flexible-4-Inches/dp/B001PQDUA0

4" dust collection port
http://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-70150-Rectangular-Dust-4-Inch/dp/B00M3JFNOO

Target Laser
http://www.amazon.com/Focusable-650nm-Module-driver-Plastic/dp/B00S1EXW3Y

Laser Holder
K40 CO2 Laser Dual Head Laser Holder for 10mm or 12mm | eBay

LED Voltage Meter for setting the laser power
http://www.amazon.com/DROK-Digital-Voltage-Voltmeter-Monitoring/dp/B00C58JGE6

Light Object water pressure sensor
http://www.amazon.com/Lightobject-LSR-H2OPRSNR-Pressure-Sensor-Protection/dp/B00HUC5FC4

Air pump for air assist head
Amazon.com: EcoPlus 728450 1 to 18W Single Outlet Commercial Air Pump, 793 GPH: Patio, Lawn & Garden

18mm head with air assist
18mm Laser head w/ air assisted. Ideal for K40 machine

18mm ZnSe focus lens with 50.8mm focal length
Improved 18mm ZnSe Focus lens (F50.8mm)

300x200 honeycomb bed
300X200 Honeycomb. Fit K40 machine

Order the laser today.
s there anylinks on replacing the head and lens with the air assit head and 18mm lens?
or is pretty straight forward?

also will Corel Draw graphics X6 work?

Hopefully you don't get tired of the questions.
 
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Carl Fisher

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X6 should work fine. Just don't plan on using the one included on the CD when you get the machine.

Supposedly another software chain would be to use any other application such as Inkscape, Sketchup, etc... and then use LaserDraw to import the drawing and lase it. I've not tried this and I'm not 100% up to speed on how LaserDraw works, but it's supposed purpose in life is to talk to the laser.

As for the head, it's straight forward. The two halves of the head are threaded together sandwiching the mounting plate. Just remove one, move your mirror over from the old head to the new, install your new 18mm lens into the new head and screw the two halves back together onto the plate. The hardest part is making sure you get all the mirrors aligned after as once you twist that head your final mirror is way out of alignment.

Also you'll be able to re-position the air nozzle on the head after it's mounted, so don't worry about that orientation right away.
 
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