Jeepmiller09
Member
Just trying to see who does what with wood and or acrylic finishing. Please list the brand you use as I am trying a little bit of everything seeing what works for me being new!
What's your go to finish?
- Thread starter Jeepmiller09
- Start date
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
leehljp
Member Liaison
100 people will give you 200 answers.:biggrin:
Depends on the wood. You don't want amberish oils on holly as it will make it look like ivory. And on bloodwood, it will make it a hint of orangish tint.
Acrylic with acetone can cause bloodwood to bleed over on other woods when doing segments. DAMHIKT!
The best thing I ever did in pen making was to make my first 12 to 15 pens and then one day, cut about 10 blanks from a pine 2x4 and spend the day perfecting a finish. Not a pen, but a finish! The goal of making a pen gets in the way of learning how to properly "finish" a pen and prolongs the learning curve. Focus on the individual steps. Repeat it, several times. Cool weather, hot weather, humid weather, dry. With a different wood, a different finish.
My techniques are not others. It takes practice and experience. Like a driver's seat. You have to adjust it to fit you.
My go to is CA, followed by Lacquer on some, with a rare venture to a poly.
And now, others can give you their experiences and preferences.
Depends on the wood. You don't want amberish oils on holly as it will make it look like ivory. And on bloodwood, it will make it a hint of orangish tint.
Acrylic with acetone can cause bloodwood to bleed over on other woods when doing segments. DAMHIKT!
The best thing I ever did in pen making was to make my first 12 to 15 pens and then one day, cut about 10 blanks from a pine 2x4 and spend the day perfecting a finish. Not a pen, but a finish! The goal of making a pen gets in the way of learning how to properly "finish" a pen and prolongs the learning curve. Focus on the individual steps. Repeat it, several times. Cool weather, hot weather, humid weather, dry. With a different wood, a different finish.
My techniques are not others. It takes practice and experience. Like a driver's seat. You have to adjust it to fit you.
My go to is CA, followed by Lacquer on some, with a rare venture to a poly.
And now, others can give you their experiences and preferences.
My go to on wood is straight thin CA (8-12 coats) then sanded through 12,000 grit micro mesh and Novus polishing compound or Meguiar's PlastX
I only use CA on alumilite acrylic as I am not fond of the satin look of polished alumilite. All other acrylics I just go through my grits of sandpaper through 12,000 and hit it with either the Novus or PlastX.
Very rarely have I used BLO prior to a CA finish (usually only with burls to give it a little more depth).
I only use CA on alumilite acrylic as I am not fond of the satin look of polished alumilite. All other acrylics I just go through my grits of sandpaper through 12,000 and hit it with either the Novus or PlastX.
Very rarely have I used BLO prior to a CA finish (usually only with burls to give it a little more depth).
KenV
Member
The most systematic documentation of experiments in finishing pens was done by TonyL. Go to his profile, and browse through the posts of his journey. If you pick the ones on finishing and polishing, it reads like a diary of a journey.
Might give you some ideas of what to try and what to avoid.
Might give you some ideas of what to try and what to avoid.
Thank you Ken. In fact, I still owe a very nice member a bunch of polishes. I need to find some small containers to ship the Dr. Kirk's samples. I can also add Simchrome to the list.
I new family friend polishes gem stones and optical lenses. He suggested I try vapor polishing if I knew what I was doing with it which I don't and like my house to remain in one piece.
I really think has to do as much with the turner/finisher than the process. I see awesome finishes with products that I tried but couldn't get nearly the same results.
I think I went just a little far when I bought the 60 to 200X USB microscope...but I was able to observe what each step was doing or not doing - at least in my hands.
I new family friend polishes gem stones and optical lenses. He suggested I try vapor polishing if I knew what I was doing with it which I don't and like my house to remain in one piece.
I really think has to do as much with the turner/finisher than the process. I see awesome finishes with products that I tried but couldn't get nearly the same results.
I think I went just a little far when I bought the 60 to 200X USB microscope...but I was able to observe what each step was doing or not doing - at least in my hands.
Here's a list of my current favorite finishes:
Hut bars (brown & white) for carnauba wax finishes -- sometimes that's all I apply to wood after sanding (sometimes just the white and sometimes brown followed by white) - I also use the white bar after applying a CA finish to wood
FastCap 2P-10 CA glue (I've tried most brands of CA & I just like this one best - and it has a 2-yr shelf life) I use it both for gluing tubes and when I do a CA finish on wood
Myland's friction polish (and also sometimes Myland's Sanding Sealer prior to the friction polish)
Craft Coat (a polyurethane finish that can be applied in a similar manner to that of CA) - available in gloss & satin (I prefer the gloss)
for Acrylics:
Stick Fast CA Polish (available in satin & gloss) - you can apply just satin or just gloss depending on the finish you want or first a coat of satin then a coat of gloss - I generally just use gloss. Although originally intended & marketed as a polish for CA finishes on wood, it works great as a finish for acrylics as well (without applying CA)
Plexus Plastic Cleaner & Protector (available from Amazon) - I spray this on acrylic blanks after applying the Stick Fast polish. Just spray it on, wipe it off with a paper towel, then buff it (I use microfiber cloth pads for buffing)
These are just my current go-to finishes. There are many other great products available, some very popular here & with excellent reviews and results. I just haven't had a chance to try them all yet.
My suggestion is to try a little variety of finishes & see what works best for you, develop some good techniques that give consistent results, then keep experimenting with other alternatives from time to time to continue refining your product choices & techniques.
And above all, have fun & share your experiences.
Hut bars (brown & white) for carnauba wax finishes -- sometimes that's all I apply to wood after sanding (sometimes just the white and sometimes brown followed by white) - I also use the white bar after applying a CA finish to wood
FastCap 2P-10 CA glue (I've tried most brands of CA & I just like this one best - and it has a 2-yr shelf life) I use it both for gluing tubes and when I do a CA finish on wood
Myland's friction polish (and also sometimes Myland's Sanding Sealer prior to the friction polish)
Craft Coat (a polyurethane finish that can be applied in a similar manner to that of CA) - available in gloss & satin (I prefer the gloss)
for Acrylics:
Stick Fast CA Polish (available in satin & gloss) - you can apply just satin or just gloss depending on the finish you want or first a coat of satin then a coat of gloss - I generally just use gloss. Although originally intended & marketed as a polish for CA finishes on wood, it works great as a finish for acrylics as well (without applying CA)
Plexus Plastic Cleaner & Protector (available from Amazon) - I spray this on acrylic blanks after applying the Stick Fast polish. Just spray it on, wipe it off with a paper towel, then buff it (I use microfiber cloth pads for buffing)
These are just my current go-to finishes. There are many other great products available, some very popular here & with excellent reviews and results. I just haven't had a chance to try them all yet.
My suggestion is to try a little variety of finishes & see what works best for you, develop some good techniques that give consistent results, then keep experimenting with other alternatives from time to time to continue refining your product choices & techniques.
And above all, have fun & share your experiences.
lorbay
Member
CA, CA and CA.
Lin.
Lin.
rudya7
Member
I've been making pens so long that I didn't realize that CA could be used as an acceptable final finish early on. After trying all the usual suspects, Hut Wax sticks, (give me a break, 25 years ago there wasn't much else) Behlens Woodturners finish, Mylands High build Friction Polish, Shellwax Cream , ect. I finally stuck with what I have used for the last 15 years or so.
I sand to 600 and then I use CA, mostly medium, but sometimes thin, depending on the wood, to seal the wood. I then sand the CA with 1200 to smooth the surface in preparation for dipping. I then dip the pen blanks in PSI Woodworking Hi-Gloss Wood Project Finish, which is listed as premium dipping lacquer. I don't sand after this step. I use a two step process as I see the people who get my pens regularly over the years, so it has to last or I hear about
.
The dipping lacquer is no longer available, due , I think to the sale of DEFT in 2013, who was the manufacturer . I'm in the process of trying to find alternatives . So far I've tried Minwax Gloss Lacquer, which I didn't like, as it takes to long to dry which causes a visible build up and the bottom of the blank . I them tried Watco Clear Lacquer, which I like a lot, and is very similar to the Deft, but not 100%. At some point in time I'll try the Deft gloss lacquer to see if it works as well as the one that was listed as dipping lacquer but no longer available. I'm in no rush as the Watco really does work pretty good.
I sand to 600 and then I use CA, mostly medium, but sometimes thin, depending on the wood, to seal the wood. I then sand the CA with 1200 to smooth the surface in preparation for dipping. I then dip the pen blanks in PSI Woodworking Hi-Gloss Wood Project Finish, which is listed as premium dipping lacquer. I don't sand after this step. I use a two step process as I see the people who get my pens regularly over the years, so it has to last or I hear about
. The dipping lacquer is no longer available, due , I think to the sale of DEFT in 2013, who was the manufacturer . I'm in the process of trying to find alternatives . So far I've tried Minwax Gloss Lacquer, which I didn't like, as it takes to long to dry which causes a visible build up and the bottom of the blank . I them tried Watco Clear Lacquer, which I like a lot, and is very similar to the Deft, but not 100%. At some point in time I'll try the Deft gloss lacquer to see if it works as well as the one that was listed as dipping lacquer but no longer available. I'm in no rush as the Watco really does work pretty good.
I've been making pens so long that I didn't realize that CA could be used as an acceptable final finish early on. After trying all the usual suspects, Hut Wax sticks, (give me a break, 25 years ago there wasn't much else) Behlens Woodturners finish, Mylands High build Friction Polish, Shellwax Cream , ect. I finally stuck with what I have used for the last 15 years or so.
I sand to 600 and then I use CA, mostly medium, but sometimes thin, depending on the wood, to seal the wood. I then sand the CA with 1200 to smooth the surface in preparation for dipping. I then dip the pen blanks in PSI Woodworking Hi-Gloss Wood Project Finish, which is listed as premium dipping lacquer. I don't sand after this step. I use a two step process as I see the people who get my pens regularly over the years, so it has to last or I hear about
The dipping lacquer is no longer available, due , I think to the sale of DEFT in 2013, who was the manufacturer . I'm in the process of trying to find alternatives . So far I've tried Minwax Gloss Lacquer, which I didn't like, as it takes to long to dry which causes a visible build up and the bottom of the blank . I them tried Watco Clear Lacquer, which I like a lot, and is very similar to the Deft, but not 100%. At some point in time I'll try the Deft gloss lacquer to see if it works as well as the one that was listed as dipping lacquer but no longer available. I'm in no rush as the Watco really does work pretty good.
I still like the Hut sticks sometimes. I turned an ERC bottle stopper the other day, sanded it to 2500, then used the brown & white Hut sticks. It really looked nice.
Wildman
Member
Think need more info from you. What type of finishing products are you experimenting with?
Do you want fast, clear, easy, and durable finish for majority of wood species. Than simple CA finish may fit the bill. Will never know why so many folks have trouble with it. Honestly stopped using the stuff but fact remains fast, easy and not sure anymore durable than other film finishes.
If don't like the plastic look and would like more natural look & feel of wood can do that with a CA finish but will take a little longer.
Will have to vary your procedure on open grain woods a little allowing CA to fill the pores of wood. Essentially will use tad more CA on open grain woods than closed grain. That is also true of of other film finishes.
Pure penetrating oils least durable (Tung & Walnut) will not build up any film no mater how many coats you apply. Tung oil provides more protection and more water resistant if apply enough coats. Lot of products labeled Tung oil may not even contain any, those products either oil varnish blend or wiping varnish. All walnut oil comes from the salad oil industry but two major vendors Doctors's & Mahoneys very popular with more than just pen turners. Great for matt finish and natural feel of wood and if want to appeal to green movement great choice.
I would not use either linseed or boiled linseed oil as a finishing material but that's my personal choice.
Shellac based friction finishes easy to apply. I don't used them anymore.
Film finishes, lacquer & shellac will meld into previous coat and dry relaively fast. Many here would not use shellac on a pen with good reasons. Varnish & polyurethane whether oil or water base/borne provide the most protection but take longer to dry. Sanding between coats has always been optional for me, depends upon what I see & feel.
There is no such thing as the best finish eventually they all fail. No finishing completely stops wood from gaining or losing moisture. Film finishes the mose durable only slow down water transfer but not stop it. Penetrating oils, oil varnish blends, with exception of tung oil do nothing to stop water transfer in wood.
The best wood finishing product for me depends upon the project & use.
Have found finishing acrylics blanks easy and simply start wet sanding and polishing with with micromesh. I use Hut's Ultra Glass Plastic Polish for final finish. You can find several different brands of plastic polish from different vendors and some folks use products from the auto industry.
Do you want fast, clear, easy, and durable finish for majority of wood species. Than simple CA finish may fit the bill. Will never know why so many folks have trouble with it. Honestly stopped using the stuff but fact remains fast, easy and not sure anymore durable than other film finishes.
If don't like the plastic look and would like more natural look & feel of wood can do that with a CA finish but will take a little longer.
Will have to vary your procedure on open grain woods a little allowing CA to fill the pores of wood. Essentially will use tad more CA on open grain woods than closed grain. That is also true of of other film finishes.
Pure penetrating oils least durable (Tung & Walnut) will not build up any film no mater how many coats you apply. Tung oil provides more protection and more water resistant if apply enough coats. Lot of products labeled Tung oil may not even contain any, those products either oil varnish blend or wiping varnish. All walnut oil comes from the salad oil industry but two major vendors Doctors's & Mahoneys very popular with more than just pen turners. Great for matt finish and natural feel of wood and if want to appeal to green movement great choice.
I would not use either linseed or boiled linseed oil as a finishing material but that's my personal choice.
Shellac based friction finishes easy to apply. I don't used them anymore.
Film finishes, lacquer & shellac will meld into previous coat and dry relaively fast. Many here would not use shellac on a pen with good reasons. Varnish & polyurethane whether oil or water base/borne provide the most protection but take longer to dry. Sanding between coats has always been optional for me, depends upon what I see & feel.
There is no such thing as the best finish eventually they all fail. No finishing completely stops wood from gaining or losing moisture. Film finishes the mose durable only slow down water transfer but not stop it. Penetrating oils, oil varnish blends, with exception of tung oil do nothing to stop water transfer in wood.
The best wood finishing product for me depends upon the project & use.
Have found finishing acrylics blanks easy and simply start wet sanding and polishing with with micromesh. I use Hut's Ultra Glass Plastic Polish for final finish. You can find several different brands of plastic polish from different vendors and some folks use products from the auto industry.
Pat Keefe
Member
And for something completely different . . .
Solid wood, sand to 800# with Abranet, polish to 12000# Micro mesh, EEE polish (breaks down to 20000# equivilency) then Aussie Oil * 4 light coats.
Burl Wood, remove the EEE, the wax can get into the cracks. Or if you seal the cracks with thin CA, then as Solid wood.
Acrylics/Worthless Wood etc, sand to 800# with Abranet, polish to 12000# Micro mesh, EEE polish (breaks down to 20000# equivilency) then Meguires Plastx.
Depending on the phase of the moon, how I hold my tongue and sheer fluke, I can start sanding at 400# :laugh:
Solid wood, sand to 800# with Abranet, polish to 12000# Micro mesh, EEE polish (breaks down to 20000# equivilency) then Aussie Oil * 4 light coats.
Burl Wood, remove the EEE, the wax can get into the cracks. Or if you seal the cracks with thin CA, then as Solid wood.
Acrylics/Worthless Wood etc, sand to 800# with Abranet, polish to 12000# Micro mesh, EEE polish (breaks down to 20000# equivilency) then Meguires Plastx.
Depending on the phase of the moon, how I hold my tongue and sheer fluke, I can start sanding at 400# :laugh:
BKelley
Member
I have tried different finishes over a period of time from linseed oil to a epoxy finish. For the most part I now use Drs. Woodshop Pen Plus on wood. Generally, I sand from 400 grit to 5000 grit depending on the wood. I do not follow the instructions that Drs. Woodshop prescribes, but rather have developed my own process that works for me. I tend to favor a nice satin finish on wood as opposed to a high gloss. I guess what it boils down to is ---The best finish is the one you like and works best for you.
Ben
Ben
mark james
IAP Collection, Curator
For wood, I have been using Minwax Wipe On Polyurethane pretty exclusively the past 12 months.
NOTE: This takes a lot of time! (Which I have). After sanding to 600 with abranet, I use compressed air to get the dust out of the pores. Then apply an initial coat of WOP. This will soak in quickly, so I usually apply x3 within the first 30 minutes. Then let dry for 3-4 hours.
I reapply x1, then again let dry 3-4 hrs. After the third coat is dry (overnight), I use the cotton rag which I used to apply the 3 coats (cut up t-shirts), which is now semi hard, to lightly burnish any rough spots. (This is similar to using the same spot on a towel with Dr's Woodshed Pen Plus).
Now I use a new cotton rag (2" x 2") to apply 4-8 coats until I get the shine/depth I want (waiting 3-4 hours between coats).
This does take me 1-2 days, but I usually have several other projects in process, so it is not an issue with me. If you have a tighter time-frame, this may not be your choice for a finish.
Finally; I do not like a CA finish. I sell very few pens - usually going to family or friends to give away, so I ask for material cost only. I like a more natural "wood" feel. I prefer a Urethane finish which will have more "flexibility" with humidity and temperature fluctuations; but I realize it will not be as durable.
Three winters ago I watched and listened to a pen with a CA finish in my work vehicle at 5:30 AM with a negative 25 degrees temperature literally crack and split as I watched it; pretty funny actually! Should I have kept it inside - sure... will my family and friends also be mindful - not likely!
I am very aware that others need to be mindful of what their customers want, so my comments are just for consideration.
But, as with the brittleness of PR and the flexibility of Alumilite - there are tradeoffs. One may take a more durable shine and crack with a drop; and the other is more prone to scratches with abuse, but may survive a drop.
Have FUN!
NOTE: This takes a lot of time! (Which I have). After sanding to 600 with abranet, I use compressed air to get the dust out of the pores. Then apply an initial coat of WOP. This will soak in quickly, so I usually apply x3 within the first 30 minutes. Then let dry for 3-4 hours.
I reapply x1, then again let dry 3-4 hrs. After the third coat is dry (overnight), I use the cotton rag which I used to apply the 3 coats (cut up t-shirts), which is now semi hard, to lightly burnish any rough spots. (This is similar to using the same spot on a towel with Dr's Woodshed Pen Plus).
Now I use a new cotton rag (2" x 2") to apply 4-8 coats until I get the shine/depth I want (waiting 3-4 hours between coats).
This does take me 1-2 days, but I usually have several other projects in process, so it is not an issue with me. If you have a tighter time-frame, this may not be your choice for a finish.
Finally; I do not like a CA finish. I sell very few pens - usually going to family or friends to give away, so I ask for material cost only. I like a more natural "wood" feel. I prefer a Urethane finish which will have more "flexibility" with humidity and temperature fluctuations; but I realize it will not be as durable.
Three winters ago I watched and listened to a pen with a CA finish in my work vehicle at 5:30 AM with a negative 25 degrees temperature literally crack and split as I watched it; pretty funny actually! Should I have kept it inside - sure... will my family and friends also be mindful - not likely!
I am very aware that others need to be mindful of what their customers want, so my comments are just for consideration.
But, as with the brittleness of PR and the flexibility of Alumilite - there are tradeoffs. One may take a more durable shine and crack with a drop; and the other is more prone to scratches with abuse, but may survive a drop.
Have FUN!
efrulla
Member
For Wood is use CA around 10 - 12 coats and then sanded up to 600 with micromesh followed by acrylic polishing pads and then Dr Kirks. I use the same process for acrylics with the omission of the CA.
robertkulp
Member
Without getting into the technique of finishing, I'll say that I've used CA from Mercury Adhesives for a few years and have found it excellent on wood. For acrylics, I just turn, polish with water & Barry Gross' small pads, and then a little polishing compound or buffing wheels.
Polemos213
Member
1-2 coats thin Ca.... 5 coats Medium ca.... micro mesh sand... 2 passes novius 2... 2 passes renaissance wax... Game Over!