What makes CA thick... thin.. medium..?

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

Marc Phillips

Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2004
Messages
900
Location
Columbus, GA, USA.
I was wondering what they do to make the different viscosity's of CA?

In paint and some oils etc there is a different ratio of pigment or oil to the carrier... mineral spirits, etc...

I have a large bottle of CA that was originally thin, but is now more like a medium as it is getting old... it seems to be working just fine as a finish though..

... ooops.. off topic

What do they do/add/change to CA to make the different viscosity's? ... I am wondering if it is the same as some other glues, in that the more solids VS carrier the better the product?
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

skiprat

Passed Away Mar 22, 2022
In Memoriam
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
7,812
Location
In a Skip in Wales
I have no idea what the difference is but I'm just like you. By the time I get through a bottle of 'thin' it has thickened. But they still work and I use them esp for gap filling. I even have a couple of bottles that are ancient and have almost turned to jelly.
I've never tried this, but I believe if you keep it in the fridge then it stays thin longer

Mmmmmm, maybe they're just flogging us re-labelled old stock:mad::biggrin:
 

bitshird

Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
10,236
Location
Adamsville, TN, USA.
To me it seems like as CA gets older not only does the viscosity change, which in turn makes the setup/cure time get longer but it doesn't seem to set up as hard as it used to, (maybe I'm wrong) Mannie "Monty" on the forum would be the one to ask.
 

jthompson1995

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Messages
861
Location
Parkville, Maryland, USA.
Keeping CA in the fridge does preserve it. Moisture and heat accelerate curing for CA and since the fridge is cold and quite dry, it helps keep the CA from slowly curing over time.

I buy 8 oz bottles (from Monty) and put 1-2 oz in a smaller bottle to use ( I got these from Monty as well). If that goes bad, I can toss it and get fresh stuff from the fridge, just like when I bought it even after a year. You do need to let the CA come to room temperature before you use it, though.

The biggest issue I've had with CA going bad is it does not finish as well. If the thick CA I use is going bad, I get small pits/bubbles that collect sanding dust and become white dots in the finish. Every time I see this I can fix it by using fresh CA. The glue is still good for gluing segments or tubes, but not for finishing.
 

jamiller99

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
50
Location
Stillwater, MN.
More than you ever wanted to know about CA's......

The basic CA molecules are all very similar. Most of what we use in finishing are ethyl cyanoacrylates. The low odor CA's are things like ethoxyethyl cyanoacylate. They are low odor because the basic molecule is a higher molecular weight, and so it is less volatile.

Manufacturers of CA adjust the viscosity of the CA glues by adding in polymethylmethacrylate (Plexiglas) in small amounts. The CA materials themselves have a very low viscosity, so the PMMA is used to tailor the glues for a variety of applications. Sometimes they also add in microscopically small silica particles. The effect of agingon the shelf is just like the effect of adding PMMA -- instead of adding PMMA intentionally, polycyanoacrylate forms in the CA liquid due tothe residual moisture.

CA cures via a process known as anionic polymerization. The reaction is triggered by the presense of a weak base. Water is a weak base, and every surface has a small amount of water present. Low humidity conditions (like winter up north) will slow down the cure of a CA. Very small amounts of moisture are needed to initiate the cure -- the water is not "used up" in each step of the reaction. This also means that exposure to very low leves of water during storage will reduce the shelf life of the CA. On the shelf, the CA cures due to the presence of water. every time you squeeze a drop of CA out of the bottle, the bottle breaths in a small amount of air (containg moisture), and the shelf life diminishes. When the tip clogs, using a pin to open up the clog can introduce more watter into the bottle, diminishing shelf life further. Always immediately replace the cap on your CA -- there is some diffusion of air/moisture in and out of the bottle even just sitting there. The reduced temperature of a refrigerator slows the aging, but if you take a bottle of CA out of the refrigerator and use it while the CA is cold and leave the opened bottle sitting near the lathe, yoou run the risk of condensation occuring within the bottle just due to the diffusion described above. With cold CA, it is very important to replace the cap right away. The thickened, old CA may still work for bonding, or even as a finish. If thin has aged to medium or thick, I wouldn't use it. A slight increase in viscosity is no big deal -- it is just like adding more Plexiglas to the original CA material just like the manufacturers do.

I store my CA bottles inside of a glass jar, and I keep a dessicant (like those little bags of silica gel you find in newly purchased electronics) inside the jar as well to scavenge any residual moisture.

Because CA cure is base-catalyzed, sometimes we have problems with the CA curing on wood. Many wood surfaces are slightly acidic, so the CA may not cure well right away, and sometimes not at all. The acid on the surface of the wood neutralizes the base required to catalyze the CA polymerization. It is a good practice to wipe your blanks with acetone to remove any surface oils, and then wipe with an accelerator for the CA. The accelerators are tyipcally amines, and amines are somewhat basic. It is the presence of the additional base that catalyzes the faster CA cure.
 
Last edited:

bradh

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
688
Location
Aurora, Ontario, Canada.
There is an idea that I have not seen before and sounds promising: On oily woods, clear the oil, then wipe with accelerator! I have got to try this on some African Blackwood.
Thanks for sharing.
 

jamiller99

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
Messages
50
Location
Stillwater, MN.
Let me know how it works! Some accelerators come in acetone, so they may work as a cleaner/accelerant (but a pretty expensive cleaner).

There is an idea that I have not seen before and sounds promising: On oily woods, clear the oil, then wipe with accelerator! I have got to try this on some African Blackwood.
Thanks for sharing.
 
Top Bottom