Which wax do you prefer

[johnnycnc]

Wax on /// Wax off ///:biggrin:

 

[Mark]

I recently started using a mix of beeswax and carnuba, cut with mineral oil. I like the results on the bowls and candle holders. I have yet to use it on a pen. If I was going for long term durability, I'd opt for the CA finish, capped off with Ren Wax for sparkle. -Just my $.02

 

[chrisk]

I think the question of the OP has been lost here . Wax in general is not a very durable finish but of the 2 listed the Carnuba is more durable . That said though you are comparing apples and oranges .
Carnuba is used as part of a finishing system . It requires machine buffing to melt the wax onto the surface . If applied as it should be , what it does is add a temporary layer that fills in any imperfections in the underlying finish and adds a little protection to the finish . Once it wears off it cannot be reapplied without disassembling the pen .
Renwax (or Kiwi) is a barrier coat and can be applied to the entire pen , hardware and all . It is way too soft as a wax and when buffed by hand leaves a barrier against fingerprints and environmental conditions but is too thin to provide any real protection to the finish , when buffed by machine it is almost completely removed and only a small amount is left , mainly just filling any surface scratches left in the finish .
Renwax was designed to provide a barrier coat to protect Museum pieces and art from environmental damage not from handling as almost all Museum pieces are never handled by the public . Pens are handled and the wax is removed very quickly and this is where Renwax (Kiwi) is superior to carnuba , Renwax can be reapplied as needed without machine buffing .

@Butch
I also used (I began applying this process 16 years ago) carnauba as part of a finishing system but not the Beall buffing one. After sanding my pen blank, I first apply cellulosic sealer (sometimes up to 10 coats) to fill the grain. This stage is very important for carnauba will enhance ANY imperfection remaining. I do this with the lathe running, from the beginning to the end of the blank, swiftly in one pass and repeat until necessary. After the filling step, I finish with a stick of pure carnauba applied directly on the blank, still with the lathe running. This step leaves uneven rings of wax on the blank. This is normal for carnauba melts at +/- 85°C (120°F). Those "tarnishing" rings disappear during the final process, that is the buffing one, which is produced (not with solvents as I've read in this thread) by... heat! Again while the lathe is running (fast), a piece of cotton folded several times (to protect the fingers from the heat produced) is heavily pressed over the blank. By doing this the wax melts and the disparate rings are equalized.

Pros: the pros of this process are: the durability and the natural shine (enhances the wood grain instead of "plasticizing" it) . When the substrate is perfectly filled, carnauba enhances the shine and also protects the blank. A pen is heavily managed and the fingers heat do not influence this particular wax. Well, I presume this will not function for some hot persons (with body heat of more than 120°F :biggrin.
From my poor experience I can say this. Some years ago, I offered some mechanical pencils to a marquetry master. After +/- 5 years of heavy use, he showed me broken mechanisms with... intact shine!
Cons: the filling process is time consuming and is unworkable with some open grain woods as oak... As for the carnauba, lastly I experienced some carnauba rings forming by insisting too much during the buffing step. The only fix is to sand down and restart the whole process. Finally, I've read that carnauba becomes yellow with time but I didn't notice this with some kits made +/- 15 years ago.

Finally, personnaly I would never (this is my humble opinion) apply wax (Renwax, Kiwi, beeswax or the likes) on a pen. IMHO, any soft wax, while certainly protecting the substrate from dust, ATTRACTS dust. If none of you have ever restored old waxed furniture, I suggest to try! Now everybody is free to do his way.
As for carnauba solvents (as I've read): heat! I mean pure carnauba, not carnauba as part of a blend. For any blend even with some part of carnauba IS NOT durable as a pen protection. I repeat what I wrote above: a 15% part of carnauba on a home made wax produces an unworkable blend. The only way to manage this is with a hot air gun... From this, you can imagine how much of carnauba enters in some commercial waxes. Now if the purpose is to just protect the... CA shelter, maybe Renwax etc will be just fine.
Now, for my other turning items and furniture, I allways use (home made) waxes (with or without carnauba) on top of Danish oil or alone, etc. But as Butch wrote above one cannot compare apples and oranges.

@Texatdurango
Sorry to tell you this but (leaving apart my poor English which is the main barrier for me), you don't encourage new members to be... how did you say that?... "doers"!


@all
Sorry for the long babbling.

 

[KenV]

There was a question about some of the auto finishes for final coat on pens. There is a huge discussion in the auto restoration field about what wax finishes are best for what use (know some folks who do that and the discussion is comperable to CA finishes on this site). One of the show finishes (trade secret for cars as I remember - a carnuba based finish) was repackaged and sold for pens a few years back. Works well

Many of those auto finishes in walmart and pepboys use silicones and I have a reluctance to have silicones around my shop because of "fish eye" problems that it causes with many finishes - notably with lacquers and some varnishes.

I have RenWax, kiwi, and a lemon wax blend from CUSA that I use with turnings - and a jar of shellawax for christmas ornaments and life is pretty good.

A lttle CA, a little Shellac, a little Enduro, and a little lacquer and life is pretty good with turning. (Note to self -- do need to order another pint of thin CA from Monty).

 

[azamiryou]

Where do HUT PPP waxes fit in here? I've never used other waxes, so I don't know what I'm missing...

 

[amboyna]

Great thread and discussion, Thanks guys I learned alot today.

I did too. Been a member for a couple of weeks. But this is my first post.
I have read the Websites pages, photography pages and now these pages.
The other day I bought a bottle of homemade finish from Woodcraft. It is Carnauba wax, Shellac and Walnut oil. Awesome stuff. My Behlen's has been retired.
Wish I would of read this post before I spent $30 on some Renaissance wax.:frown:

 

[tool-man]

May I add one more fact to this discussion. Here is a link to the Renaissance Wax product safety data sheet (PSDS).
http://www.hermansilver.com/renaissance_wax.pdf

I would judge this to be a reliable list of ingredients, quote "Blend of micro-crystalline waxes in white spirit."

Another quote from the PSDS -- "HAZARD IDENTIFICATION White spirit (naphtha/petroleum): approx. 80% by weight."

 

[georgestanley032]

Since the original question was "Which WAX do you prefer?" and since Kiwi is undoubtedly a wax, the question need not be amended to include Kiwi as a possible direct answer!

 

[Wildman]

Cannot tell you how many years ago learned Kiwi as good or better than Ren wax here. So recommend buying a can of Kiwi locally and see for yourself!

 

[GaryMGg]

Too bad Texatdurango and Andy are gone.
They contributed a lot to the IAP.

 

[Wildman]

Lacquer sanding sealers (CELLULOSE SANDING SEALERs) contain Zinc stearate to help the sanding process. Too many coats of sanding sealer provide a very soft finish. Never want to use more than two coats of any sanding sealer. You are better off using thinned lacquer to seal, and applying as many coats of un-thinned lacquer you feel the need for.

Film finishes like lacquer are capable of filling pores and providing a tough finial finish.

 

[Jgrden]

Too bad Texatdurango and Andy are gone.
They contributed a lot to the IAP.

Maybe they will come back as I did. i miss them too.