vacca rabite
Member
Has anyone used coats of tung oil or boiled linseed for pens? I love the way it makes the wood feel and the building luster as you add coats, but it seems like a lot of folks here like CA.
Zach
Zach
Tung oil?
- Thread starter vacca rabite
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Ulises Victoria
Member
I personally don't like finishing wood with CA. Why turn a beautiful piece of wood and then cover it with a plastic-like substance???
I only use BLO and/or shellawax cream to finish my pens.
Some people claim that the CA finish lasts longer, but I kinda like the look of worn out things. A worn out book or notebook looks better than a brand new-never used one.
My opinion only.
Now... if you intend to sell your products, try to find out what people wants.
I only use BLO and/or shellawax cream to finish my pens.
Some people claim that the CA finish lasts longer, but I kinda like the look of worn out things. A worn out book or notebook looks better than a brand new-never used one.
My opinion only.Now... if you intend to sell your products, try to find out what people wants.
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StephenM
Member
I use multiple coats of either BLO or Watco and follow it up with multiple coats of shellac until I get a good build. I micromesh the shellac down and then use paste wax for the final coat(s) Here are some examples http://www.facebook.com/MusialWoodworksStudio (feel free to "like" the page!)
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nativewooder
Member
On some pens I use partially catalyzed Tung Oil to build up a finish as there are a lot of customers who would rather feel the wood. They don't like the plastic feel of a CA finish.
leehljp
Member Liaison
Lots of people do continue to use normal furniture finishes and see the wood on pens in the same way as wood in furniture or other flat work finishes. But they are not. Pens are handled 100s of times more than fine furniture is, and that puts pens in a different category. IF a person takes care of the wood pen like they should, then it will work.
Yes, some use BLO as a part of their regimen in applying CA. BLO in some cases is used as a lubricant for applying CA, but not always necessary. It is used in some cases as a mild accelerant for CA and in some cases it is used to bring out or pop the grain. I think probably a slight majority of CA users do not use BLO that much. There are times when some oils, including BLO and tung oil will stain the wood in the wrong way. I used holly quite often and oils would give it an antique ivory look. Not good when you want "white". For blood wood, it would cause the dark red to have a slight burnt orange look. For those with dyed wood, the warm amber effect of the TO and BLO would change their tint.
Some people prefer the natural look of wood and that is fine. A few makers like the wood look so much that they will not make pen with CA finish. That is fine too.
But experience has shown time, and time again, that the vast majority of pen buyers will choose a shiny pen over a sheen or wood look pen about 10 to 1 or even 50 to 1 in different market areas. So, if one is making pens for sale, the question is, will we stick with our convictions of sheen/flat wood finish or shiny finish that sells 10 to 50 times better?
CA is a much better protector than TO or BLO. The problem with flat wood finishes being used on pens is that furniture and flat work (our term for non-turned wood projects) are used TOTALLY different than pens. I have written of this on many occasions. TO, BLO and other great oil and finishes (and waxes to) do super for fine expensive furniture and old antiques. But these wood objects are not handled or treated the same way a pen is used.
CA, lacquer, water based poly, liquid acrylic, and some others provide some great protection on wood pens that oils and waxes do not. Some of these are harder than others and last longer. Some reveal the wood better than others but that is a very subjective subject.
How many times a day will we pick up a pen and put it into a humid pocket or move it from outside cold or hot and humidity and dryness, and then move inside to a totally different environment. Sweaty palms in the summer and the humidity in the shirt pocket to a dry cool air conditioned room. Furniture does not go through that kind of change at all. Fine furniture is wiped and cleaned and waxed on a regular occasion, especially when people touch it or handle it regularly.
People don't clean their pens on a daily basis and wax them as often as fine furniture routinely is cleaned. This puts pens into a different category of wood use and abuse than fine furniture and it needs a different protection scheme. There are a few people that will treat a fine pen the same as a fine piece of furniture. These folks are to be commended, but most people will not.
IF you sell a wood pen with BLO only or TO only with a wax finish, in about a year or so, the pen will start showing dark grime build up. Some customers will blame the seller for not finishing it properly. This has happened. Customers need to be warned verbally and in written form how to care for an protect their pen, or the wood will darken from hand grime of sweaty hands and humid pockets. I am not talking about dripping wet sweat but normal hands that we often think are clean. Think about the kitchen and where kitchen cabinets show hand use from constantly opening and closing. And kitchen cabinets usually have a good protection of poly, but still the hand usage prints are there. And a pen will be handled even more so.
TO and BLO are fine, but one must recognize the constant need for cleaning and waxing on something that is handled 100's of times more than fine furniture and other wood projects.
I am not against TO or BLO, as TO is and has been my finish of choice for more than 30 years when the project would allow it. I know what you are asking and I love the TO protection and way that it brings out a beautiful piece of wood. But overall, fine furniture and most fine wood products are not handled and treated the same way that pens are.
Yes, some use BLO as a part of their regimen in applying CA. BLO in some cases is used as a lubricant for applying CA, but not always necessary. It is used in some cases as a mild accelerant for CA and in some cases it is used to bring out or pop the grain. I think probably a slight majority of CA users do not use BLO that much. There are times when some oils, including BLO and tung oil will stain the wood in the wrong way. I used holly quite often and oils would give it an antique ivory look. Not good when you want "white". For blood wood, it would cause the dark red to have a slight burnt orange look. For those with dyed wood, the warm amber effect of the TO and BLO would change their tint.
Some people prefer the natural look of wood and that is fine. A few makers like the wood look so much that they will not make pen with CA finish. That is fine too.
But experience has shown time, and time again, that the vast majority of pen buyers will choose a shiny pen over a sheen or wood look pen about 10 to 1 or even 50 to 1 in different market areas. So, if one is making pens for sale, the question is, will we stick with our convictions of sheen/flat wood finish or shiny finish that sells 10 to 50 times better?
CA is a much better protector than TO or BLO. The problem with flat wood finishes being used on pens is that furniture and flat work (our term for non-turned wood projects) are used TOTALLY different than pens. I have written of this on many occasions. TO, BLO and other great oil and finishes (and waxes to) do super for fine expensive furniture and old antiques. But these wood objects are not handled or treated the same way a pen is used.
CA, lacquer, water based poly, liquid acrylic, and some others provide some great protection on wood pens that oils and waxes do not. Some of these are harder than others and last longer. Some reveal the wood better than others but that is a very subjective subject.
How many times a day will we pick up a pen and put it into a humid pocket or move it from outside cold or hot and humidity and dryness, and then move inside to a totally different environment. Sweaty palms in the summer and the humidity in the shirt pocket to a dry cool air conditioned room. Furniture does not go through that kind of change at all. Fine furniture is wiped and cleaned and waxed on a regular occasion, especially when people touch it or handle it regularly.
People don't clean their pens on a daily basis and wax them as often as fine furniture routinely is cleaned. This puts pens into a different category of wood use and abuse than fine furniture and it needs a different protection scheme. There are a few people that will treat a fine pen the same as a fine piece of furniture. These folks are to be commended, but most people will not.
IF you sell a wood pen with BLO only or TO only with a wax finish, in about a year or so, the pen will start showing dark grime build up. Some customers will blame the seller for not finishing it properly. This has happened. Customers need to be warned verbally and in written form how to care for an protect their pen, or the wood will darken from hand grime of sweaty hands and humid pockets. I am not talking about dripping wet sweat but normal hands that we often think are clean. Think about the kitchen and where kitchen cabinets show hand use from constantly opening and closing. And kitchen cabinets usually have a good protection of poly, but still the hand usage prints are there. And a pen will be handled even more so.
TO and BLO are fine, but one must recognize the constant need for cleaning and waxing on something that is handled 100's of times more than fine furniture and other wood projects.
I am not against TO or BLO, as TO is and has been my finish of choice for more than 30 years when the project would allow it. I know what you are asking and I love the TO protection and way that it brings out a beautiful piece of wood. But overall, fine furniture and most fine wood products are not handled and treated the same way that pens are.
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dogcatcher
Member
I deal with an older crowd, and most prefer the feel of the wood. I use a version of the Miniwax poly method, you can find it in the library. I also use a gunstock type finish using Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil. It is what the people I know want, they don't care for the plastic look of the CA finish or the acrylics.
leehljp
Member Liaison
That is great! Know your target people and their preferences. I forgot to mention that fountain pen connoisseurs and avid pen collectors are more prone to taking care of pens in the way that they should be. But giving or selling a fine wood feel finish to the average person is like giving a Ferrari to a Mississippi red neck (I are one) to take to a tractor pull. :biggrin:
Wildman
Member
Raw Linseed oil, Boiled linseed oil and Tung Oil know as drying oils. They need time to penetrate wood and air to fully dry. Both will produce a satin finish.
Linseed oil tends to yellow over time. Raw linseed oil takes forever to dry. Boiled linseed oil nothing more than raw linseed oil with dryers added.
Tung oil does not yellow with age as much. Drying time is the drawback. Tung oil does offer more water vapor protection than BLO. Only pure Tung oil on the market know of is Hope's Tung oil. Lot of products claiming to contain Tung oil have none at all.
Expensive "Polymerized Tung Oils," Tru-oil and Sutherland Wells very expensive. Do dry little quicker! Both have instructions at web sites.
Hard to find polymerized linseed oil, products often just BLO, if read ingredients.
I have a Crystal Coat finished (shellac-wax) spalted oak desk pen that is seven or eight years old. No problem with finish durability or up-grade gold plating.
Russ Fairfield liked a Tung Oil finish and provides instructions at his web site if still up.
Linseed oil tends to yellow over time. Raw linseed oil takes forever to dry. Boiled linseed oil nothing more than raw linseed oil with dryers added.
Tung oil does not yellow with age as much. Drying time is the drawback. Tung oil does offer more water vapor protection than BLO. Only pure Tung oil on the market know of is Hope's Tung oil. Lot of products claiming to contain Tung oil have none at all.
Expensive "Polymerized Tung Oils," Tru-oil and Sutherland Wells very expensive. Do dry little quicker! Both have instructions at web sites.
Hard to find polymerized linseed oil, products often just BLO, if read ingredients.
I have a Crystal Coat finished (shellac-wax) spalted oak desk pen that is seven or eight years old. No problem with finish durability or up-grade gold plating.
Russ Fairfield liked a Tung Oil finish and provides instructions at his web site if still up.
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leehljp
Member Liaison
OffTopic from the OriginalPost, but I thank you for this bit of information. Until a year ago, I had been in Japan for the last 26 years, and have not kept up with what is where back here Statesdie. Thanks for the information on getting the good TO.
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Wildman
Member
Natural oil products being touted as green finishes, very safe today. Well maybe not entirely true. Many of these products are oil blends/dryers/waxes and may not have any natural oil in them at all. Read the label before buying or ordering.
As woodturner, think oils are important finishing material even for pens. Lot of confusion about using oils as a finishing material due to contradictory information available. Simply sand until all tools marks gone and blemishes good as going to be. Oil finish will highlight poor surface prep. Then apply, wait for oil to penetrate wood, wipe off excess, and wait until dry for reapplication.
Most confusion due to wait times and reapplication of product. Have to follow product directions plus take into consideration temperatures and humidity in your area and make adjustments.
You have nondrying oils that come from vegetables, flowers and nuts and stuff like food safe mineral oil. Mineral oil (laxative) only non drying oil that will not go rancid. Do not use baby oil or industrial mineral oil (lubricant) as a finish on items that will contain or used to prepare food.
Non-drying oils need frequent reapplications.
Semi drying oils like Soy used as a component in paints.
Only two drying oils are Tung and Linseed. Only drying and semi drying oils used in polymerization process which is very expensive. Drying oils will polymerize (dry hard) on their own given air and time. Commercial polymerization process requires high heat and special equipment.
As far as I know Walnut oil is a non drying oil, but will find sources that will dispute that bit of information.
As woodturner, think oils are important finishing material even for pens. Lot of confusion about using oils as a finishing material due to contradictory information available. Simply sand until all tools marks gone and blemishes good as going to be. Oil finish will highlight poor surface prep. Then apply, wait for oil to penetrate wood, wipe off excess, and wait until dry for reapplication.
Most confusion due to wait times and reapplication of product. Have to follow product directions plus take into consideration temperatures and humidity in your area and make adjustments.
You have nondrying oils that come from vegetables, flowers and nuts and stuff like food safe mineral oil. Mineral oil (laxative) only non drying oil that will not go rancid. Do not use baby oil or industrial mineral oil (lubricant) as a finish on items that will contain or used to prepare food.
Non-drying oils need frequent reapplications.
Semi drying oils like Soy used as a component in paints.
Only two drying oils are Tung and Linseed. Only drying and semi drying oils used in polymerization process which is very expensive. Drying oils will polymerize (dry hard) on their own given air and time. Commercial polymerization process requires high heat and special equipment.
As far as I know Walnut oil is a non drying oil, but will find sources that will dispute that bit of information.
76winger
Member
I've been using Formbys Tung Oil Finish on some bowls and vessels, and I like the results really well. However I don't think I'd want to use that finish on pens due to the larger amount of handling the pen will receive. As mentioned above the finish wouldn't hold up if not properly cared for, and chances are good that extra care wouldn't happen.
That's what's nice about CA for a pen finish. It allows the beauty of the wood to show through while providing a durable protective finish. I also like some of the other pen specific products for when I want to maintain the feel of the wood for certain people or applications.
That's what's nice about CA for a pen finish. It allows the beauty of the wood to show through while providing a durable protective finish. I also like some of the other pen specific products for when I want to maintain the feel of the wood for certain people or applications.
Wildman
Member
People wanting safer finishing material for their pens should look into oil finishes.
Does Formby's Tung Oil really contain Tung oil?
http://www.hardwarestore.com/media/msds/260315.pdf
Formby's Products: Formby's® Tung Oil Finish Directions
Just plain old Tung oil without metallic dryers.
http://www.dtep.com/images/hopes/16TO12_p1.pdf
http://www.dtep.com/images/hopes/16TO12_p2.pdf
http://www.behlen.co.uk/safety/B740-0003.pdf
Homemade & commercial Walnut oil-wax finish.
Finishing with Walnut Oil and Beeswax
Mahoney 16 oz. Walnut Oil Finish
DW Walnut Oil/Carnauba Wax /Shellac Woodturning Finish
Safety data sheet for CA says safe product, but I have become sensitive to the stuff so no longer use it as a finishing material.
Durability of any finish on a pen once in the hands of customer or someone you gave a pen to big unknown. Have a Berea 24K upgrade click pen finished with Crystal Coat desk pen made seven or eight still looking good.
Does Formby's Tung Oil really contain Tung oil?
http://www.hardwarestore.com/media/msds/260315.pdf
Formby's Products: Formby's® Tung Oil Finish Directions
Just plain old Tung oil without metallic dryers.
http://www.dtep.com/images/hopes/16TO12_p1.pdf
http://www.dtep.com/images/hopes/16TO12_p2.pdf
http://www.behlen.co.uk/safety/B740-0003.pdf
Homemade & commercial Walnut oil-wax finish.
Finishing with Walnut Oil and Beeswax
Mahoney 16 oz. Walnut Oil Finish
DW Walnut Oil/Carnauba Wax /Shellac Woodturning Finish
Safety data sheet for CA says safe product, but I have become sensitive to the stuff so no longer use it as a finishing material.
Durability of any finish on a pen once in the hands of customer or someone you gave a pen to big unknown. Have a Berea 24K upgrade click pen finished with Crystal Coat desk pen made seven or eight still looking good.
dogcatcher
Member
Tru-Oil will get you in the $ if you buy the 3OZ bottles, a lot better to buy it in the 8OZ. In the larger size it is similar priced to the other specialty oil finishes.
I do quite a few gunstocks and game calls with Tru-Oil so I buy it by the quart. With my method of applying it, it lasts almost forever, and at about $32 a quart it becomes a bargain.