Newbie question: Finishing

[putnamm]

I'm getting back in to pen turning after a 20-year hiatus. Back then I just used sandpaper (80-320 max). I didn't really know what I was doing, and there was no Internet!

Today, I see these pens that have what appears to be a clear coat/plastic/almost glass-like finish over the wood. And that is what I'm going for.

I have dabbled in a number of methods:
- Micro Mesh only - Sanded down starting with 100 grit to 400 grit sandpaper then finishing with the MM pads. This gives the wood a smooth texture and [temporary] shine. But it soon wears dull.
- CA glue - I'm perhaps least experienced with this. I've watched some videos and read a bit. Tried it once but ended up with a dull almost opaque cover on the blanks.
- Polyurethane - I started this on a pen last night. I used a piece of shop towel to apply the poly while the pen turned slowly on the lathe. I'm planning to sand it tonight and recoat, then repeat at least once more. I also plan to try the drip method at some point.

But, bottom-line: How do I get that nice clear coat finish on my wood pen blanks? Is there some super-secret method that only the elder pen gods know about and require a pilgrimage to the highest mountain in the land to reveal??

Thanks,
Mark

P.S. - Regarding CA, I suspect that one of my issues is that I don't allow the CA enough time to dry. Can someone advise me on the proper drying time for one coat of CA before sanding/reapplying? Thanks.

 

[JimB]

Many of those high gloss finishes you see are done with CA or CA/BLO. Depending on the look you want you can do a few coats or many. Many being 8 to 10 but some do more. The cure time between coats is very short but also depends on your method. If you use accelerator or BLO you can do one right after the other without waiting.

Sanding and polishing time after the final coat varies as well. Some do it right away and others, like me, wait a while. I wait until the next day.

Look in the finishing forum on here. You will find as many ways to do a CA finish as there are members. For many folks it takes some practice and experimentation before they find a method that works for them.

I also use Wipe On Poly (WOP) for about half my pens instead of CA. I do about 7 coats off the lathe and wait a day between coats. I also give each coat a light rub with 0000 steel wool before putting on the next coat. The WOP gives a nice shine.

There ar also many other finishes you can use. Each has their positive and negatives.

 

[jttheclockman]

Hello Mark

Welcome to the site. Your dilemma is like many who just start out. You need to do some reading because there are many different ways to finish a pen and within the ways there are many methods. No one right or wrong way. But what you need to first establish is how you want to finish the pen. Any of the methods you mention can produce a see your reflection shine. Some may wear longer than others. Some may take a few more steps than others. So answering your question is impossible to say the least. You pick a method you want to learn and stick with it till you get proficient at it. Then if you want to experiment again you do the same with the other. But jumping from one to the other will do you no good.

many people use CA as the finish of choice for woods and other materials because of its durabilty factors. But some can not handle the fumes that come with it. Many ways around this. Many ways to apply. Many ways to finish it. So help us help you. Give us an idea as to what method you want to learn.

 

[Bikerdad]

I'm getting back in to pen turning after a 20-year hiatus. Back then I just used sandpaper (80-320 max). I didn't really know what I was doing, and there was no Internet!

Today, I see these pens that have what appears to be a clear coat/plastic/almost glass-like finish over the wood. And that is what I'm going for.

I have dabbled in a number of methods:
- Micro Mesh only - Sanded down starting with 100 grit to 400 grit sandpaper then finishing with the MM pads. This gives the wood a smooth texture and [temporary] shine. But it soon wears dull.
- CA glue - I'm perhaps least experienced with this. I've watched some videos and read a bit. Tried it once but ended up with a dull almost opaque cover on the blanks.
...

Thanks,
Mark

P.S. - Regarding CA, I suspect that one of my issues is that I don't allow the CA enough time to dry. Can someone advise me on the proper drying time for one coat of CA before sanding/reapplying? Thanks.

I've bolded the areas with CA that are most likely causing you trouble. You do NOT need to sand between every coat. Doing so, especially if you're using thin CA, will almost certainly result in removing all the CA you just applied. Drying time for thin CA is going to be less than 30 seconds, so basically you can apply a coat to a single barrel pen every minute or so. The catch is, the drying time is so quick that you can easily be dragging across the latest coat you're applying as it's setting up. Doing so will result in "much less than optimal results", to put it mildly. A medium CA will take longer to dry, and be thicker, which presents its own advantages and disadvantages. Use of accelerator with CA other than thin is handy, if you go the accelerator route, get an aerosolized delivery rather than pump, the fine mist rather than small droplets gives better results. (Note, when using accelerator on CA used for ADHESION purposes, it probably doesn't matter. For finish, it does.)

There's a video out there of a fellow who applies thin CA using a SINGLE pass each time, then changes to a new bit of paper towel for the next coat. It goes pretty quick and in my, albeit limited, experience, works well.

 

[putnamm]

Many ways around this. Many ways to apply. Many ways to finish it. So help us help you. Give us an idea as to what method you want to learn.

JT,

That's a really good point. Thank you.

I got my benchtop lathe for Christmas, and it's currently set up in my dad's shop at his home. So I have to go over there to do my turning, meaning I don't have ready access. This makes time a factor, because I usually only have 1-2 hours per day to spend with my pens. Something that is a bit faster would be ideal.

Also, whatever method I learn I will want to share with my twin boys, who are eleven. The three of us together are getting in to pen turning, and I'm sharing what I learn here with them every day. So the method would need to be simple and also safe--at least in the beginning. But the boys are also really interested in making pens for friends and family, and they'd like something that wows!

Finally, because there are three of us--four, if you count my dad--using the one lathe, I would prefer a method that may allow for finishing the pens OFF the lathe. If we can get the barrels turned and then moved off to finish somewhere else, that will allow all of us to enjoy the lathe and also not discourage my boys from what I hope will be a lifelong hobby.

I currently have a variety of sandpapers, Micro Mesh pads, CA glue (thick, and also flexible) as well as General Finishes Enduro Polyurethane in Glossy. So on the one hand, I'm fairly well equipped. On the other hand, I'd prefer not to spend any more money!

Appreciate the feedback, JT, and the willingness to help. That goes for all of you!

-Mark

 

[JimB]

The CA glue you have isn't good for finishing. You want thin or medium. The thick is too thick and doesn't go on well as a finish. You do want thick for gluing in tubes. CA finish also needs to be done on the lathe.

Use the poly you have off the lathe. Wipe it on in thin coats. I prefer wipe on poly but you should be able to use what you have.

 

[putnamm]

The CA glue you have isn't good for finishing. You want thin or medium. The thick is too thick and doesn't go on well as a finish. You do want thick for gluing in tubes. CA finish also needs to be done on the lathe.

Use the poly you have off the lathe. Wipe it on in thin coats. I prefer wipe on poly but you should be able to use what you have.

Thanks, Jim!

 

[jttheclockman]

Well Mark, you can more or less rule out a CA finish. It requires a lathe to be applied and it takes coats to apply the finish and also to buff out. Plus it is a health hazard for kids. I would not use it.

Here is where I will have to step off because I use nothing less for wood pens. My experience with other finishes is almost non existent. But some suggestions that might work for you would be to use friction polishes, dipping in poly such as the enduro or basic lacquer. Spray lacquer would be the quickest and easiest. I will leave all these to others that have done them. There are articles in the library here that would be helpful. Good luck.

 

[MTViper]

Mark,

Where in TX are you? There are lots of turners spread throughout the state that would be glad to give you some hands on help.

As for finishes, I'd recommend using MicroMesh then putting Doctor's Woodshop Pens Plus. It's a friction polish with wax and shellac that gives a great finish. Couple or three coats of it and the finish is great. It's available at Woodcraft or directly from the Doctor. I'm sure other vendors here carry it too.

Steve

 

[putnamm]

Mark,

Where in TX are you? There are lots of turners spread throughout the state that would be glad to give you some hands on help.

As for finishes, I'd recommend using MicroMesh then putting Doctor's Woodshop Pens Plus. It's a friction polish with wax and shellac that gives a great finish. Couple or three coats of it and the finish is great. It's available at Woodcraft or directly from the Doctor. I'm sure other vendors here carry it too.

Steve

Steve, when you apply the Pens Plus, do you do it on a lathe? I assume so, since it is a friction polish. Also, do you have to follow it up with any other kind of product, or is it a standalone solution?

 

[MTViper]

Mark,

Pens Plus is a stand alone product. I put on 3 coats (2-3 drops on a paper towel per blank per coat), on the lathe while it's turning at high speed - 2500+. It soaks in, dries, and hardens. The third coat is just for shine. Total finish time about 1 minute.

Steve

 

[smik]

I have used Pens Plus, CA, GF Wood Turners Finish and lastly lacquer. With CA I became allergic and can only use when wearing an appropiate mask. I am preferring lacquer for now, still learning and working out a repeatable technique, but the richness of the finish is hard to beat. Takes more time then the others, but I actually think it's simpler. For the smell it doesn't bother me and if or when I decide to stay with this method will make a mini spray booth with carbon filtration.

 

[jttheclockman]

I have used Pens Plus, CA, GF Wood Turners Finish and lastly lacquer. With CA I became allergic and can only use when wearing an appropiate mask. I am preferring lacquer for now, still learning and working out a repeatable technique, but the richness of the finish is hard to beat. Takes more time then the others, but I actually think it's simpler. For the smell it doesn't bother me and if or when I decide to stay with this method will make a mini spray booth with carbon filtration.

Lacquer was one of the choices I mentioned to Mark. Now I do not use it on pens but have used it on many different woodworking projects and love it. I have gone on to use water based lacquers more these days and there is not much smell and clean up is easy. The great part is the ease of use and the blending in of one coat to the next as opposed to any type of poly finishes. They are basically layers on top of each other. But I still use the rattle can lacquers too. The depth of the wood shows through with lacquers real well. This as I said because the layers burn into each other and thickness is not built by adding layers which will cloud the layer under it. To me it is a good alternative choice.

Now I have never seen anyone do an endurance test with pens using the various finishing methods so as to stand up comparisons is anyone's guess. Lots of factors come into play. It would be nice if someone did a comparison one of these days.

 

[Wildman]

Might check out this product & Ed's video on how to use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=E1Kflo93eCM

Exotic Blanks :: Finishing & Shop Supplies :: Sanding & Finishing Supplies :: Woodturners Finish - 2 oz

 

[putnamm]

I tried a couple different approaches this weekend and thought I would report back...

I tried the polyurethane "dip" method that has been suggested before. While this resulted in a nice, clear finish that seemed very durable, there was a lot of residue and left over poly on the barrel that had to be dealt with between coats. It was nice to have the lathe freed up. But as a result I spent a lot of my time fixing the residue problem.

I also tried thin CA. I liked the more instantaneous results of this method. Dry time is far less than poly. I did a couple of pens (mahogany and spalted maple) and both had a nice shine. I only did three coats in each case, and it does seem like there is room for improvement. I also finished with a bit of Johnson's wax, and this seemed to result in some dulling of the shine, actually, even after buffing it out. Not sure how I can fix that.

For now, it seems the CA is a better finish. If I let my boys do it, I will be sure they are wearing protective eyewear, mask and gloves.

Any suggestions on dealing with the side effects of each method cited above would be welcome.

Mark

 

[putnamm]

Just as a follow-up, and in case anyone is interested, I thought I'd share the finishing method I am using now that I like. Another user on the forums suggested it, and I added a bit to it. It seems to be going well.

I sand the blank from 220 to 400 grit. Then I apply a layer of thin CA glue and almost immediately rub it down with a paper towel. I wait a bit for that to dry. I think this helps fill in some of the low areas, maybe, but I don't know. Then I do five coats of medium CA glue each followed by two sprays of activator. I let each coat of medium CA dry for a couple of minutes before proceeding. After the fifth coat I wet sand with Micro Mesh pads, wiping the blank with a paper towel in between each pad. Finally I finish with a tad of Renaissance Wax that I buff out with a paper towel.

For now this seems to be giving me that glassy finish that also stands up to handling. I haven't let my boys try it yet. When I do, I will certainly supervise them. They've used CA previously wearing latex gloves, protective glasses and face masks.

I've attached a photo of a pen I made last night for my daughter using this finish method. I took the picture with my phone, so it's not the best.

 

[Bikerdad]

Then I do five coats of medium CA glue each followed by two sprays of activator. I let each coat of medium CA dry for a couple of minutes before proceeding.

You don't need two sprays of activator. A single shot will do the trick, and apparently too much activator can cause problems down the road.

 

[Davidh14]

I use pens plus. I didn't like the strong odor of CA. I know you would like to have the lathe freed up. An idea that I have been thinking about is getting either a fairly cheap lathe, or even a used one strictly for finishing. Just an idea.

 

[farmer]

CA finish

I'm getting back in to pen turning after a 20-year hiatus.

Today, I see these pens that have what appears to be a clear coat/plastic/almost glass-like finish over the wood. And that is what I'm going for.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Mark
Everyone seems to have there own technic when it comes to doing a CA finish.

The three most important things to me is when I am applying a finish is.
I use Stick Fast CA .

#1
The stick fast thin or medium CA, ( that ) is fresh CA.
If the CA gets slightly old it reminds me of a clear epoxy ( Kind a stringy )
and it doesn't seem to want to dry evenly .
Your CA could be to old and no longer good.....
Stick Fast thin and medium CA is a liquid like water, and if it gets stringy it is not usable as a finish...

#2
I only use blue paper shop towels to apply the finish or a nitrile glove using my finger to wipe the CA on

White paper towels seem to activates the CA and makes the CA set up way to fast.
White paper towels will want to stick to that ever you are doing the finish on prematurely.
BLUE paper shop towels work the best.
BLO helps keeping the towel or a nitrile glove from sticking but is not needed if you use a blue paper towel and you are fast enough.
Nitrile glove, using your finger on non rotating parts to apply a medium coat of CA .




#3
I do not use a activator to speed the drying process up.
If I have to use a activator then the finish is not going to come out right......
Say what ever you want to say but the activator is not my cup of tea.
Normally drying time on the first few coats is fast like 5 minutes .
3 to 5 coats of thin CA Max, then I switch to the medium.
I can put on 10 to 15 coats in 2 or 3 hours and then i will let dry for 12 hours
I normally I put on 15 to 20 coats, because I don't want to sand through the finish, ( ever ).

I sand with 220 or 320 sand paper to get the surface of the finish smooth and then I use polishing creams.
It is very important to understand that not everyone does a CA finish the same but can provide just as professional looking finish.

Just another CA finish video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8_ulK-w7KE