Newbie to Newbie Tips for Finishing with CA

[pgfitzgerald]

Hello everyone!

Today was the first day I attempted a CA finish. I've been practicing on and off all day and have come up with a few tips that may be helpful to others attempting a CA finish for the first time.

First and foremost, YMMV. :biggrin: Also, if you're thinking of trying it, stop thinking about it and give it a shot. You don't even need to use a real pen! So far, the following method is doing a good job helping me determine what works best for me. It may or may not help you. If you're having trouble, give it a try.

There is a ton of information on this site about finishing with CA. Read as much as you can. From what I can tell, everyone ends up with their own method, so don't try to follow these guides word for word. Use the info within these guides to help you come up with your own process. If you're anything like me, you may try following the steps verbatim and end up getting frustrated when your finish doesn't come out the same way. Save yourself the frustration and use the guides as guides rather instructions.

The first thing you'll need to do is mill up or purchase a handful of inexpensive blanks for testing. I had a whole bunch of cherry, so that's what I used. Rather than drilling them, gluing in tubes, and mounting on your mandrel, just mount them between centers. Turn them round and complete your normal sanding regimen. I sand up to 600 grit with sandpaper and then through 12000 with MM. Finally, number the blanks on the end grain.

Collect all your supplies and arrange them within easy reach. I had thin, medium, and thick CA, accelerator, BLO in a squeeze bottle, water in a squeeze bottle, sandpaper and MM, a few hand towels, paper towels, wax paper, those little plastic baggies that pen parts come in, strips of brown paper grocery bags, and a pad and pencil.

Based on your research, figure out how you want to start and get started.

I went through various combinations of lathe speed, speed of application, number of coats, CA viscosity, with and without BLO, application method (paper towel, wax paper, baggie), with and without post application sanding/polishing, etc.

After each blank, I recorded the blank number and all the details about the finishing method. I'd then go back over my notes and examine the completed blanks. Finally, I took what I had learned and applied it to the next blank. This went round and round all day.

If you're interested, here's what I have found so far...

1. I prefer to apply the finish at 500RPM and at a medium to fast pace. Applying it too slowly and the finish isn't smooth... too fast and the finish isn't consistent. This is exaggerated by the speed of the lathe. Lathe speed and speed of application has probably been the most difficult part of all of this for me... at least so far.
2. I like the medium CA. Thin just soaks into the paper towel or runs off the wax paper and baggies. Thick doesn't spread well for me and the cure time isn't much longer than medium. I have a feeling this would be different if I were using a different brand of CA.
3. I prefer using paper towels -- I think I get a smoother coat than with the baggies or wax paper.
4. I don't like using accelerator... I don't find it necessary.
5. I haven't figured out if I like using BLO or not. I like some of the characteristics of CA only, and I like some of the characteristics of CA/BLO. More testing is required. :wink: I may actually end up with two methods -- one that is slick and shiny and one that has a softer, more luxurious feel.
6. I haven't figured out how many coats I like either. It's definitely a minimum of three, but I found I need at least five if I wet sand with MM. The number of coats I need also seems to be different if I use BLO.
7. If I sand with MM after applying the finish, I prefer wet sanding... even if I choose to use BLO. In any case, I like to do this polishing at MACH-1. :tongue:
8. I haven't decided if I like to burnish the wood with the brown paper bag before I apply the finish. I also haven't decided if it adds anything after I apply the finish.

The one thing, at this point, that I consistently have trouble with is achieving a completely slick finish. Every blank so far has tiny little imperfections that affect the feel of the blank as well as its shininess. Some blanks have less imperfections than others, but I have not yet determined what is causing it. It appears as though the fewer the imperfections, the smoother the blank feels and the shinier it is. The more imperfections a blank has, the softer the blank feels and the less shiny it is.

So there you go. Hope this helps another newbie like me. :biggrin:

Paul

 

[leehljp]

I would say that your imperfections are due to only "three" applications of CA with PT. From my experience that is what happens with too little on the CA side . . . unless you are referring to imperfections as white spots, cloudy spots or dark spots.

Imperfections can also refer to "feel" as in not as smooth, or it can refer to dull finish in which it is not as shiny. Again, more CA applications can help this. Paper towel is a good medium for applying CA, but with PT, 80% of the CA does not make it to the pen.

BTW, Colco on Jackson (2631 Jackson Ave) in Memphis used to have a fairly good supply of pen blanks as well as other great woods.

 

[Tn-Steve]

Paul,


I'm in the same boat, finding what works for me. Right now I've got it down to a pretty simple routine, that seems to produce a good REPEATABLE result for me. Here it is, FWIW

1. Sand like usual to 600 grit, making sure to sand lengthwise on each grit and get the dust off.
2. Thin coat of either sanding sealer (I like Mylands) or BLO to seal the wood and fill any tiny scratches that may be left.
3. MM all the way to 12000, my touch gets a bit lighter as the grits get higher, since at this point I'm more "Polishing and Refining" rather than "Sanding". I also sand lengthwise between grits, and get the dust off.
4. By now, the wood should be glowing and have a very good sheen. Here's the point where I used to mess it up.
5. I use the "CA THE NEW WAY" technique, but I don't use any accelerator. I find that it sets TOO quick that way for me. I work one blank at a time, use thin CA, make only 1 swipe down and back, (and maybe back down again), then just stand back and let it spin at 650 (Slowest speed on my lathe) for about 30 seconds. Then I hit the other blank.
6. I've been doing 4-5 coats, and when it's done, the surface is smooth, no clumps, bumps or bad ridges.
7. Next I Wet Sand with MM thru all the grades, the first couple knocks any roughness or tiny ridges off the finish, the next few smooth it out, and the last few really make it shine.
8. I then buff with Tripoli and White Diamond. (I've got a buffing wheel that mounts in the Drill Press), but am looking at something like the Beale to make it easier.
9. Finally I finish off with Hutts Plastic Polish, like you I do it at high speed.

I started with Russ's BLO / CA Finish, I like it a lot, my daily carry pen has it, but a lot of other folks like the glossier CA only look.

One thing that has helped me is I'll turn the blanks to about half way to finished, then go ahead and practice my finishing. That way I can get more experience with out ruining the final product. Then I turn off the practice finish, remove some more wood, then maybe even try it again if I have enough blank before I start getting into the actual shape of the pen. I also take advantage of the fact that I may have a lot of wood to remove to practice my turning skills, skew work, things like that, rather than just whip if off with a gouge.

Hope this helps. My advice, what little it's worth, is make notes. I had a few times that I couldn't remember what I did to make it work right, but now I'm getting some confidence in it.

Enjoy the Obsession,

Steve

 

[marcruby]

I think Hank is right. That was my first thought as well. I generally use 4 coats of medium thin CA. And I don't use a paper towel so I get more build.

As you said YMMV.

Marc

 

[pgfitzgerald]

I would say that your imperfections are due to only "three" applications of CA with PT. From my experience that is what happens with too little on the CA side . . . unless you are referring to imperfections as white spots, cloudy spots or dark spots.

Imperfections can also refer to "feel" as in not as smooth, or it can refer to dull finish in which it is not as shiny. Again, more CA applications can help this. Paper towel is a good medium for applying CA, but with PT, 80% of the CA does not make it to the pen.

BTW, Colco on Jackson (2631 Jackson Ave) in Memphis used to have a fairly good supply of pen blanks as well as other great woods.

I haven't been getting white, cloudy, or dark spots.

On some of the blanks, the imperfections look like tiny little pits. On others, they're scratches. On others, they look kind of like undulating rings. Weird huh?

I think some were due to uneven application. Some may have been from keeping the paper towel in contact with the blank for too long. I'm still working it out.

However, it does appear as though adding additional coats causes the number and intensity of the imperfections to decrease.

You got the rest spot on.

Paul

 

[pgfitzgerald]

2. Thin coat of either sanding sealer (I like Mylands) or BLO to seal the wood and fill any tiny scratches that may be left.

I'll have to give that a try, though I tend to gravitate towards Seal-A-Cell or SealCoat on other projects.

5. I use the "CA THE NEW WAY" technique...

That's a fantastic thread. I think one of the things from the thread that has helped me the most is this quote from Daniel:

I think if you can get the CA on consistently smooth enough to start sanding with 1500 MM you would have a nearly fail safe method.

I'm working real hard to ensure my technique lives up to that. I can tell it's getting better, but I still need some more practice.

... I work one blank at a time, use thin CA, make only 1 swipe down and back, (and maybe back down again), then just stand back and let it spin at 650 (Slowest speed on my lathe) for about 30 seconds. Then I hit the other blank.

Just curious... what do you use to apply the CA? I still like a paper towel, but I'm thinking about trying a nitrile glove. Though I'm not sure if that's smart. :tongue: I wouldn't want the glove to stick to the blank and yank my hand into the lathe... that might hurt.

One thing that has helped me is I'll turn the blanks to about half way to finished, then go ahead and practice my finishing. That way I can get more experience with out ruining the final product. Then I turn off the practice finish, remove some more wood, then maybe even try it again if I have enough blank before I start getting into the actual shape of the pen. I also take advantage of the fact that I may have a lot of wood to remove to practice my turning skills, skew work, things like that, rather than just whip if off with a gouge.

Good tips!

Hope this helps. My advice, what little it's worth, is make notes. I had a few times that I couldn't remember what I did to make it work right, but now I'm getting some confidence in it.

I couldn't agree more! Note taking has been very helpful for me.

Thanks for adding to the thread!

Paul

 

[Tn-Steve]

I use a paper towel, tear a strip about an inch wide, fold it up so I have a nice thick pad, and use a very light touch spreading the CA. I wear a glove on my hand while I'm doing it, but that's just because I hate picking CA off my skin later on. If I do it right, I don't get any on my hand. That's why I wear the glove.

I'm not quite where I want to be yet, but I'm getting there, and getting some confidence in my ablities. I think that CA can sense fear, and will turn on you if it thinks that it can get away with it. The reason that some of these old timers get such great finishes is that the CA knows that it's whupped and just meekly accords to their will. For us, it senses fear, and gets a bit unruly at time.

Steve
That's my Theory Of CA Awareness, and I'm sticking to it.

 

[leehljp]

Just don't give up. I think I hold the record for tenacity. It took me 18 months before I could do good finish every time :redface: . . . except in cold weather.

 

[jttheclockman]

That is basically how I learned also by doing scraps of wood. I just do not find a need to micromesh it that far down. I tried going to 800 grit and also taking it up to 12000. To me no difference so I save those steps. I apply thin CA only and d0 5 or 6 coats. Depends on wood absorbsion. But my difference here is I apply some on the paper towel and then drizzle it on the blank so there is a good coat on the blank and it is not all absorbed into the towel. I also go back and forth a few times until I just feel the towel start to grab. Have no complaints doing it this way. I eliminated the dreaded ridges from not applying enough and going one or two passes. It is actually an easy finish and is super hard. Whoever though of it gets a big thumbs up in my book.

 

[MorganGrafixx]

I use a paper towel, tear a strip about an inch wide, fold it up so I have a nice thick pad, and use a very light touch spreading the CA. I wear a glove on my hand while I'm doing it, but that's just because I hate picking CA off my skin later on. If I do it right, I don't get any on my hand. That's why I wear the glove.

The first time I tried CA as a finish, I used a rubber/nitrile glove and paper towel (folded to about 4 thicknesses)...i think it was the 2nd or third coat I remember seeing the CA start to let off the typical smoke-like vapors and then I felt my finger burning. I took my hand away and the paper towel was cemented to the glove...or so I thought. Turns out the glue had eaten right through the paper towel and melted the glove. If you think picking CA off your fingers is bad, try picking off melted rubber solidified in CA glue. Needless to say, that was the last time I used the rubber glove. I love the high-gloss finish the CA creates, but I HATE applying it. I have tried it about 10 times, and I am yet to get it good enough to sell.

 

[John Eberly]

CA - Another voice heard ...

I've been using the stuff for a couple of months for pen finishing, used it for years before that for other hobby stuff.

My ideas only, but I think this works.

I sand the turned blank down to 400 grit, starting wherever I need to. 120 is about as coarse as I go, and only start there if my skew work has not measured up. Seems to depend on the wood, but often 320 is plenty coarse to start. Remember, 400 grit is really used for between coat finishing on furniture - 220 is "fine" paper pre-finish.

I put the CA on at the slowest speed on my Rigid lathe, I think it's 875. I'd go slower if I could.

I use an old tee shirt or lint-free white cotton rag. It does soak up glue, but it doesn't leave paper bits in the finish.

I start out with one coat of thin CA, applying it from above the blank and wiping below at the same time, left to right, and I run the wipe back to the left one time.

I then squirt a little accellerator on my finger and wipe it on the blank. Now I can do two quick coats of thin without waiting. I do this four times, leaving 9 coats on the blank.

Then I wet sand with 400 grit if necessary to smooth out bumps, do one last coat of thin, and wet sand with MM all the way through the grades.

I think a good build up is necessary to have a long lasting finish. I do not think that 12000 MM before finishing does anything except use up your pads. I can keep the pads cleaner and cooler by wet sanding after the CA is in place.

Last step is to use EEE and Shellawax for a glassy finish.

Have Fun!

John Eberly

 

[foamcapt40]

I don't like some nitrile gloves for application ( I use the same ones we use on our EMS units) because if you do get accelerator on the glove and there is ANY CA on it it gets VERY HOT VERY quick and has melted on me! (Still have the mark on my finger). I like paper towels, but also want to try cheap coffee filters, bought in a discount store. That chapter is yet to come!:redface: