A new twist on an old theme

[DCBluesman]

I'm a fountain pen collector. I have a wide variety of ages (new to nearly 100 years old) in a variety of styles (stubby cigar types to long presentation pens) and compositions(wood to acrylic to glass). My favorites seem to be the older wooden variety. They have a feel that I just don't find in most of today's pens.

So, I went back to basics to see if I could replicate that feel. One of the things I'm trying is to sand tooling marks and sanding swirls off without removing all traces of the grain and texture. In short, I've been heading back to the future. My results have been mixed, as I'm not the finest craftsman you ever met, but I'm starting to produce some pens that have that same warm, wood feel. Part of it may be the TSW, but more and more I'm working with my sanding techniques.

I've stopped sanding the same piece of wood 13 times in order to get a smooth-as-glass feel. I now sand with the lathe on for my 220, then I sand with-the-grain (lathe off, of course) and follow another with-the-grain sanding at 320. Finally I turn the lathe back on for MM1500, then turn the lather off for a final with-the-grain sanding with the MM1500. What I'm getting as a final result is a pen that is free from tool marks and sanding swirls, yet still feels like real wood. I finish, typically, with sanding sealer to close the pores and grain, and follow up with two coats of TSW-1121, hand buffed to a satin finish (my personal favorite). To be sure, there are some flaws, but that's part of what I like about wood...the beauty of its imperfections.

I've been working this method on slimlines first (because they are quicker to turn and less expensive to test with). Here are two of them. I'll probably try a cigar or Gent Jr this week.

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If you're as crazy as me, you might give this a try. The pen sure feels good in the hand...it makes me want to get off of email and back to writing letters! [8D]

 

[Fred in NC]

People looking at one of my carefully finished pens have asked: "is that really wood?" Then they bought one that looks and feels like wood.

Unbelievably, I have sold pens made from coarse grained OAK, just sealed and sanded to 600. Even then, they felt a little rough. These were side by side with much better (in my opinion) looking pens.

Around here, for some reason, the best sellers are maple, cherry and walnut, besides the oak I already mentioned. I always have a good selection of these.

 

[Fred in NC]

Drew: I agree. I figure 20 mins max for a $20 pen. That includes a basic kit and inexpensive or free wood. I can actually turn and finish a basic pen in about 15 mins without rushing. That includes all work from raw wood to finished product.

 

[wayneis]

ART: 1. The quality, production, expression, or realm of what is beautiful. 2. Illustrative or decorative material. 3. The principles governing any craft, skill, or branch of learning. 4. Skilled workmanship or execution.

ARTIST: 1. A person who practices one of the fine arts, a painter or sculptor etc. 2. A person who does anything exceptionally well.

 

[Fred in NC]

I have removed this post because it was OFF TOPIC.
Sorry, Fred

 

[DCBluesman]

Just a quick post to turn this discussion back to the topic. I'm really more interested in what folks are doing that <u>feels</u> right to them as well as what <u>feels</u> right to the user (be it a customer or someone you gave it to). I really don't want this discussion to be a rehash of the 'flame wars' of a couple of months ago on whether or not we should be making $30 supplement-your-income pens, $20 cover-the-cost-of-your-hobby pens or $1000 artisan pens.

In working with a different technique, I wasn't trying to make a shortcut to a cheaper and more profitable pen. I was just trying to replicate a look-and-feel that I find to be quite special. I haven't gotten there yet and was just hoping some of the members who are looking for the same thing might share their experiences and tricks.

As for whether it's better to make four $20 pens an hour or 1 $100 pen, that is a choice we each make. Different strokes for different folks. Not better strokes...just different. [8D]

 

[Fred in NC]

Lou:

Sorry, some of us are new to the forum, and have not seen those threads. Yet, I consider a flame as a post that insults or demeans somebody. Respectfully stated opinions, in my opinion, should be respected . . . this is what a forum is all about.

Going back to your thread, I understand the type of look and feel that you are talking about. I am doing the same thing with some of my pens. I just don't use any micromesh on them. Max is 2000 wet and dry, and then not all the time. I stop sanding when the pen feels right.

 

[C_Ludwigsen]

As part of testing the new TSW finish product, I have started back to making some pens that have a "smoothly polished wood feel". Personally, I think people like them, but want a sheen to remain.

The challenge for me is keeping a sheen when I have not put a plastic/grain-filling finish on it. I would like my cake and to eat it too, I guess.

 

[dw]

While this is written in response to Lou's remarks it is in no way intended as a rebuttal or a counter-argument...rather it is intended as a furtherance of the discussion, perhaps a different perspective. And it may very well be a bit off-topic...

There comes a point in any craftsman's life when he either "steps-up" or stands still, so to speak. I think too much of what is really professional craftsmanship is labeled "Art." I don't buy it. The "Artist" has a "message." The craftsman is simply in pursuit of excellence and beauty. I would be proud to be known as a craftsman in any trade.

But to get there I think a person has to recognize that there is no such thing as "relative excellence." There is only "good, better, and best." And unless, and until, a craftsman is willing to subordinate his own work habits and his standards of excellence to those standards we all tend to recognize, there is no hope of him ever progressing much beyond the "hobby" stage.

There are standards that we all recognize and that resonate within our psyches as human beings. And there are standards that have been established by masters in the field both living and dead. To see yourself...properly...within that hierarchy and to objectively judge your own work and critically analyze what you need to do to get to the next level, is the essence of professionalism.

That said, we don't all of us need to be "professionals" to derive satisfaction and pleasure from what we do. I'll never be a professional craftsman in the field of woodworking or woodtuning. But, from what I can see, it is only on that level (the non-professional)...that the notion of "different strokes for different folks" has any credibility at all.

Just another 2 cents....

 

[DCBluesman]

Thanks for the posts, Fred and DW. I welcome the feedback. BTW, Fred, I never want someone to remove a post because of what I say. That's just too darned close to censorship. A misplaced post, if they are misplaced, is not offensive. It just gets confusing for folks to find the thread. As for the spot-on comments from DW, I'll only add that some of the folks here are making bread-and-butter money. If they make pens quickly and without the nth degree of precision, I still applaud their efforts. For those who are trying to make the best possible piece without regard to the extra time and effort that goes into it, I applaud your efforts as well. And for the rest of us...including me...who love to experiment and see what happens, if there are more of you out there, good luck! [8D]

 

[C_Ludwigsen]

Okay, now that all of THAT is settled.... Answer my question []. How can we get a finish that retains some sheen (shine), whether satin, semi, or high gloss while not covering the wood to the point of losing the woodgrain feel????

It seems like finishes that expose woodgrain feel wear off WAY too quickly.

Chuck.

BTW, this is MY way to get this back on-topic. []

 

[dw]

Chuck,

Well...since I'm on a roll...[] here's a thought:

What exactly <b>is</b>the feel of wood?

I've never in my life seen a piece of wood, au natural, that wasn't either barky or splintery.

Anything you do to wood, except leave it in the bark alters it so that, if you come right down to it, it doesn't really resemble (or feel)like wood at all.

 

[DCBluesman]

Chuck...most of what I described in the first post leaves some traces of grain and pore...not a lot, but when I use the 4800 X 4800 scanning resolution (it creates something like an 11 megabyte file) I can definitely see it. I can also feel the difference. I DO use sanding sealer. But I take off a lot of the first coat with MM, then put on just a light second coat, again MM'd a bit. The resulting turned blank feels smooth, but textured. The sanding sealer gives a good stability to the wood and the addition of the TSW provides a very hard surface that takes a pretty darned good shine. It's NOT glossy, but a very nice satin. It seems from early reports that the testers find it's durable to boot! I added some pictures to my album last night. Check out the amboyna and the afzila in particular as I think they show the finished product best. Let me know what you think. [8D]

 

[DCBluesman]

BTW, as a courtesy (I can be courteous...really I can) here's a link to a long discussion thread on pricing. Happy Reading!

 

[Rick Prevett]

Lou, going back to your original post, I'd like to try your abbreviated sanding technique. For those of us not testing your new product, what would you suggest as an alternative for the last 2 coats of TSW? Or is there one?

BTW, looking forward to trying TSW, all the testing results sound very encouraging.

rick

 

[wayneis]

I have edited my earlier post.

But I have to disagree with DW. If you look at the dictionary under art and artist, I do believe that something created out of wood, if done well is art and the person who created that piece is an artist. DW, I have looked at your web page and those boots that you create are a masterpiece, a piece of art and you, in my eyes anyway are the artist. You created an exceptional piece or pair in this instance, of art. The dictionary defines an artist as "A person who does anything exceptionally well." I will agree that not every piece that we creat is art but, if it is an excepetionally nice piece of wood, outstanding grain patern or color and we sculpt and carve and create something that is beautiful from it then that is a piece of art.

Wayne

 

[DCBluesman]

Hi Rick! If I didn't have access to TSW, I'd probably get a bar of carnauba from one of our suppliers, put on two coats, buffed immediately after application, and top the carnauba with Renaissance Wax. It's a very good product. [8D]

Originally posted by Rick Prevett
<br />Lou, going back to your original post, I'd like to try your abbreviated sanding technique. For those of us not testing your new product, what would you suggest as an alternative for the last 2 coats of TSW? Or is there one?

BTW, looking forward to trying TSW, all the testing results sound very encouraging.

rick

 

[Rick Prevett]

Lou, I've got the beall(sp?) buffing system, so I've got the carnuba loaded wheel. I think that would do, eh? I don't have any experience applying the wax stick to the wood (amount, time, pressure, etc). I've heard you could bruise the wood if you're not careful, so I'm a bit leary of that process.

Thanks for the tip.

rick

 

[DCBluesman]

If you've got the Beall, you've got it made. Just hit the carnauba wheel and follow up with Renaissance Wax. You've love the look and neither the carnauba nor the Renaissance Wax should significantly change the feel. As for others using the carnauba bars, just lightly lay the bar on the barrels, moving it back and forth quickly. NO PRESSURE. Sufficient carnauba will coat your barrels. Then give em a good polishing.

 

[Rick Prevett]

Thanks Lou, sounds like I'm all set. To the WHEEL they go [}]

rick

 

[kenmanuelian]

To speed up sanding, I often sand with power drill mounted 2" velcro sanding discs - 220, 320 and 400..... Then dunk the pen in Deft clear lacquer - DONE!

Ken Manuelian

 

[Rick Prevett]

Lou, I tried your sanding technique this last weekend at a demo I did. Minus the TSW, using a caruba beall wheel and ren wax.

Here a small pic of the result (from a scan):

<br />

It's Olive wood that I got a month or so ago. It wasn't dry when I drilled the blanks, and I didn't wait long enough for them to dry. Because of that, the pen developed cracks on both blanks after about 4 hours.

But the finish was super! I really like the natural feel left using only sanding sealer and wax. More blanks (drier) await!

rick

 

[txbob]

I'd like to comment on Fred's post early in this discussion, that some people prefer oak, walnut, other native woods. I've noticed the same thing. They'd rather have a "boring" red oak pen than something in the exotic woods. I've concluded that much of the general public only knows the names of a few kinds of wood, all of them native woods. They're comfortable with oak, they've seen it in furniture. But they have no knowledge about the exotics. Walnut looks like wood to them, and they'll buy it. The "pretty" exotics look like plastic, especially with a very glossy finish, and they'd rather have "wood."

Keep on spinning that wood,
Bob S. in TX

 

[Rod Torgeson]

txbob....Here is a picture of a couple of boring oak pens [].

<br />

 

[Fred in NC]

Rod: Very nice boring oak pens !! I am sure buyers will not find them so boring, they look like NICE WOOD!

 

[Rod Torgeson]

Thanks Fred....Actually the wood is from an Oak board that I had bought for face frames and door frames for my bathroom cabinets. As I was looking through the boards finding those that were straight, I found this one with spalting on one end and thought, that might make some nice pens. That is the result you see in the picture.

 

[txbob]

Rod,
Very nice pens! And I agree, not boring. But even boring pens seem to sell will to some customers, and I think it's just that they recognize the name of the wood.
Bob