New finish testing

[C_Ludwigsen]

- Item description: Silver (shiny) Slimline Pen
- Wood type(s) - Mesquite

- Pre-finish if applicable - Sanding sealer at 320, BLO at 1000
- Pre-finish sanding grits - 220, 320 (SS), 400, 600, 800, 1000 (BLO)
- Finish application notes including bonding wait time - Rubbed on small amount thoroughly and waited 4 minutes. Wiped clean

- Post finish notes, wait time, observances -
- Buffing steps used - desired sheen (semi or high gloss) - Medium High Gloss
- Assembly notes: No issues, no fingerprints.
- Opinion and reasons - So far, so good. I may apply a second application tomorrow to build the depth of the finish up a bit. I did notice that where the TSW had gotten on the bushings, it left them a bit blued. Nothing major.

Pics to follow when I get time to set up the photo booth.

 

[DCBluesman]

I'm surprised that you got a sticky bushing with this, Chuck. I almost always put my first coat on while it's on the spindle...just rub it straight across. I've not had a problem. Any chance it was the BLO or the sanding sealer? Also, if you want to do additional coats for depth, make sure you give it about 24 hours between coats. Otherwise the second coat may soften the first. I can't wait to see what you've done.

And John...some more really great stoppers/tops. Sure is tough to tell which is which. [8D]

 

[C_Ludwigsen]

Thanks for the reminder about waiting 23 hrs, Lou. I'll do that.

The bushings did not stick at all (as in glued), it discolored them a bit (as in BLUEd) []. No big deal though, they're just bushings. I put it on a silver pen kit with no discoloration at all.

Okay, I'm tired, headed to bed.

 

[DCBluesman]

I read that as "glued". Think I'd better get some sleep before other things start failing me. [8D]

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br /><b>FIRST NEGATIVE RESULT:</b> (edited but all relevance retained)
used BLO/shelac finish on the pen,followed by Butchers wax(it's advertised as bowling alley wax containing carnauba)
I wanted to see what your finish would do to liven it up.
Since you said it could be used on cars I coated all the pieces.
....in the process of buffing out the filigree in the center band I took all the gold off the band itself.
The band is now silver.( I have a jeweler friend who will replate it for me.)
I am chalking it up to my error but maybe you should warm others.
I normally buff out my pens on the lathe with a buffing wheel chucked into a hand drill.
It's possible that my wheel was contaminated but regardless caution should be taken on plated parts.
Like I said, my mistake, not the fault of the finish.

My take on this is:
1. I do not advise using TSW-1121 with other waxes. I'm VERY familiar with Butcher's Paste, having worked with it for 6 years in the bowling alley business. It's a great wax, but full of polishing compounds (it takes the scratches off the lanes). Combining the polishing compounds with the poly in the TSW-1121 may have resulted in "polishing" the gold-plate right off of the pieces. So far, none of the other testers have had this problem.

2. A long buffing of the product is unnecessary, even to reach a glass-like gloss. Less than a minute will bring out all the gloss you will get. If you want more depth to the finish, wait 24 hours after the first coat and add a second. Each coat adds depth.

3. For those of you using buffing wheels, be sure to keep them for exclusive use. Tripoli, Diamond, carnauba and TSW-1121 all need their own wheel. Contamination can cause awful results.

This being said, I apologize to the tester and offer, as I have stated before, to replace the kit as well as the blank. I still stand behind this stuff, but please be advised.

I originally sent Lew an e-mail to tell him this happened.<b>In NO WAY do I blame his finish for this occurance</b> and told him so in my e-mail.
I Use Butchers wax in the shop for a lot of different purposes and am normally happy with the results.
This morning while waxing a pen display I looked on the can of wax and it said "White Diamond"
I had never noticed that before.
That means the buffing wheel I was using to buff the pen was contaminated with the Butchers wax.I only use that wheel for final buffing of my pens, or anything else I use Butchers wax on.

NOw that that is settled,ANyone now how to get the center band off a Perfect fit Pen?[]

 

[Guest]

Applied D.C's formula to 5 pens last night and buffed this morning.
All results were EXCELLENT!
One piece in particular was a power point pencil made of lignum vitae(thanks to ILIKEWOOD)
I knew a CA/BLO finish on this pen would drive me up a wall so I opted for BLO.
Wet sand with BLO 320,400,600 grit.
Burnish in with viva paper towels till my fingers burned.
Micro meshed from #3to #9
I applied DC's formual at 8:00 last night and buffed it out at 8 this morning.
It looked good with the BLO,but it looks great with The magic STUFF!
This will be a good test because I intend to use it as my shop pencil[] and it will take abuse.I will make successive applications as the week progresses.

 

[DCBluesman]

Hey Chuck. I finally figured out what happened. If you left the finish on the bushing for 4 minutes, it just hardened on. It shouldn't cause any problems with the bushings and they may even be a bit slick. If it keeps happening, try wiping the excess off after just 1-2 minutes before the carnauba starts to harden. The finish will have sufficiently bonded to the blank by then. [8D]

Originally posted by C_Ludwigsen
<br />Thanks for the reminder about waiting 23 hrs, Lou. I'll do that.

The bushings did not stick at all (as in glued), it discolored them a bit (as in BLUEd) []. No big deal though, they're just bushings. I put it on a silver pen kit with no discoloration at all.

Okay, I'm tired, headed to bed.

 

[C_Ludwigsen]

COOL. That makes sense. I'll report the results from 3 pens with the TSW on it this evening.

 

[Doghouse]

Here is another non pen with TSW.

Should we be refering to this as a finish enhancer? It appears that it is not being used on raw wood, but a full finish is being applied and then TSW is being used to enhance / maintain the finish?

CA/BLO is a finish, I am using the Beall system, others are using carnuba wax. Hmmmm. Just a thought.

 

[DCBluesman]

That's one beautiful bowl, John...you did yourself proud.

As for how to categorize TSW-1121, I really have no idea. I've come to think of sealer/shellac/carnauba, CA/BLO, sealer/poly/Ren and the like as finishing products. When I've talked about it to others, I usually mention that it is primarily a top coat. That being said, I've used it on raw wood (olivewood and rosewood), over sanding sealer only (amboyna burl and afzilia XY-Lay), shellac (plum), WB lacquer (apple and black/white ebony), and numerous combinations. All of them seem to work well. The only reason that I suggest a "bottom coat" at all is to seal everything up good. It may not be necessary, but I'm erring on the side of caution for now. Maybe I'll just call it a <b>Trade Secret for Wood</b> and let folks use it the way the want!

 

[Guest]

So far the Lignum Vitae/BLO finish us holding up where Krystal Coat would have worn away through just a couple of hours.I applied a second coat last nite and it buffed to a higher gloss today.
I have a question for testers who have had experience with REN wax.
Since I just started turning in June, I have not had the opportunity to try a lot of finishing products.
How does TSW(the magic stuff) differ from REN wax?
The TSW seems like a winner to me and no sense trying anything else at this point.

 

[DCBluesman]

Some new observations and answers to questions.

Have you considered adding anything to cut down on the "cure time" so that it would not be necessary to wait 12 hours for buffing?

The carnauba in TSW is the highest concentration of pure, white carnauba in any polish/finish that I have been able to research. Softening it with additives is what sets the curing time. Right now, it appears to be in the five-minute range. That's why it is suggested that you wipe off the first coat within 1 minute. I have tried buffing at 5 minutes with very good results. I'm not certain that the carnauba is 100% cured, but I do not get any secondary glazing. If you try a short drying time, know that you can always add a new coat if you are not satisfied. For those of you who like to experiment, go for it!

What is the maximum coates you have put on any pen pencil?

I have a tester pen that I've put 5 coats on. It's brazilian rosewood and the depth of finish is beautiful. I can see grain that wasn't as obvious when the wood was bare. I have not really seen any change from coat 4 to coat 5, but I will probably keep adding to see what happens. BTW, I dropped it in a parking lot a couple of days ago, picked it up and wiped it off. I couldn't see any damage whatsoever. I would also be interested in seeing if second coat application can be made in less than 24 hours. The reason I set this is because the finish softens the lower coat a bit so they bond well. Looks like I need another tester pen! If anyone tries this, please post results. [8D]

 

[DCBluesman]

Here's my two cents on Renaissance Wax and the differences between it and TSW-1121.

Right off let me start by saying that I have used Renaissance Wax on at least 30 pens. I think it is a great product. It imparts a tremendous gloss when applied correctly. It adds a layer of protection to both the finish of the wood and the finish of the metal parts. From the research I've been able to do, it is a microcrystalline polymer. What does that mean? It means it's a plastic coating. The fact that it's microcrystalline means that it has polishing capabilities and that it will impart a hi-gloss.

When I was working on TSW-1121, I was looking for a more "controllable" finish/polish. The pure white carnauba was key for me in that it could be lightly hand-buffed for a natural-to-satin finish, or it could be vigorously hand- or machine-buffed for a glass-like finish. I then looked for a way to soften the product so you wouldn't be sticking a hard bar of wax against a well-sanded piece of soft wood, only to find that it left new "marks" to be re-sanded. The third component needed was a polymer to protectively coat the metal components. I have kept this additive to extremely low levels in order to make sure that I was not plastic coating the wood. I also worked very hard to find a polymer that had no negative information from EPA. The final thing was to impart a light scent that was pleasant to work with. Due to the fact that there is only a tiny amount of polymer in the product, I did not have to overcome the "-ene" smell associated with Renaisance Wax.

That being said, I believe that TSW-1121 is a much harder finish, providing a higher level of protection than Renaissance Wax. I also believe that it allows the craftsman much more leeway in creating the level of gloss he or she desires. Finally, the scent is a whole lot easier on the nose.

As a final thought for this post, I am conducting this test, wholly at my expense, because I do not want to make claims based on my intent or my experience. I expect you testers out there to throw everything you can at it. If it stands up to your worst, then it just may be a better product than Renaissance Wax. If it doesn't, I'll be working on TSW-1122!

I hope that answers some of the questions and cannot wait to hear from the folks out there using this stuff on all of the various pen-making materials.

Be blunt and honest, folks. My ego can handle it. [8D]

Originally posted by Eaglesc
<br />So far the Lignum Vitae/BLO finish us holding up where Krystal Coat would have worn away through just a couple of hours.I applied a second coat last nite and it buffed to a higher gloss today.
I have a question for testers who have had experience with REN wax.
Since I just started turning in June, I have not had the opportunity to try a lot of finishing products.
How does TSW(the magic stuff) differ from REN wax?
The TSW seems like a winner to me and no sense trying anything else at this point.

 

[pssmith]

Lou,

Just curious, do you have any expectations of the "project" also having benefit to keeping cast-iron shop tables (machine table tops) clean and smooth (as some other waxes are used for). Understanding that the applicability here is for pen finishes, expanded functionality can only help if it's already in the "brew" from a marketing perspective, although I'm sure not the priority of your experiment.

 

[DCBluesman]

Funny that you should mention that, Patrick. I've used it on a couple of toolbeds to protect the surface and, hopefully, make them slick as can be. So far, so good. If I know you folks, someone else is probably already doing the same, as well.

 

[C_Ludwigsen]

- Item description: Premium Designer Pen (Parker mechanism)
- Wood type(s) - Red Mallee Burl

- Pre-finish if applicable - Had to stabilize small voids with CA early on. BLO at 1000, dried overnight
- Pre-finish sanding grits - 220, 320, 400, 600, 800, 1000 (BLO)
- Finish application notes including bonding wait time - Sprayed with Deft Lacquer spray and set to cure overnight. Rubbed on small amount thoroughly and waited 3 minutes. Wiped clean. I think I need to apply slightly higher quantity and only let it set 2 minutes.

- Post finish notes, wait time, observances - If it starts to dull with fingerprints, buff it. The shine comes back every time. Unlike other finishes that have truly dulled. Very nice.
- Buffing steps used - desired sheen (semi or high gloss) - High Gloss
- Assembly notes: No issues, no fingerprints.
- Opinion and reasons - Great.

Image (I apologize for the fuzzy pic, tripod was in the wife's car).

 

[Scottydont]

Lou, It sounds great. I can't wait till you release it to the forum members for general consumption.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by scott m
<br />Lou, It sounds great. I can't wait till you release it to the forum members for general consumption.

You mean you can eat it too?
(It smells great!)

 

[DCBluesman]

I almost took a header off my stool when I read that! Thanks for the laugh! [8D]

Originally posted by Eaglesc
<br />

Originally posted by scott m
<br />Lou, It sounds great. I can't wait till you release it to the forum members for general consumption.

You mean you can eat it too?
(It smells great!)

 

[darbytee]

Lou, I'm really enjoying the TSW and have had nothing but great results. To this point I have used it on about a dozen pens and will use it on a maple burl bowl as soon as it's done (unless I blow it out TOO!). I think I could give you much better feedback if you sent me another 5 or 6 ounces of it. [] I'll even be gracious enough to pay for the shipping. Seriously though, this is a really good product you've got.

 

[ryannmphs]

- Item description: Slimline pen
- Wood type(s) - Black Wood

- Pre-finish if applicable - None
- Pre-finish sanding grits - 220 - 1000
- Finish application notes including bonding wait time - Applied TSW waited 1 min, then buffed off. Follwoing morning, applied second coat of TSW waited then buffed off.

- Post finish notes, wait time, observances - Very nice. I did not buff to a high gloss and the finish never showed finger prints
- Buffing steps used - desired sheen (semi or high gloss) - Semi Gloss
- Assembly notes: No issues, no fingerprints.
- Opinion and reasons - Great.

I would post a pic of the pen but unfortunalty during the last buffing process the lower pen tube cracked, dag nabbit. Oh well, I've got a few other pens that are just waiting to get on the mandrel. I will post those results shortly.

Ryan

 

[DCBluesman]

<b>All of my spots for testers are full.</b> Thanks to those of you have expressed interest. Keep reading this topic to get the results.

I expect that TSW will be available for sale exclusively to IAP members by Thanksgiving. Keep watching this space. [8D]

 

[C_Ludwigsen]

I used the TSW on a Designer pen during this weekend's demonstration. Sanded to 600, sanding sealer, Friction polish, then TSW. Looked great. Can't take a picture because one of the attendees insisted on buying it right then and there!

 

[GregMuller]

A newbie question. What are you useing for a sanding sealer and for the friction polish.

 

[C_Ludwigsen]

I'm using the Mylands Cellulose Sanding Sealer and Friction Polish.

 

[PenWorks]

Lou, just read about the TSW, keep me in mind when a batch comes in. Your Statesman pens will ship tomarrow. I read you bowled on the tour. I always wondered if you were not in the top 25 how they made a living. I've bowled for 30 years, just now cut back do to me knee & elbow pain. I really miss it.

 

[DCBluesman]

I'll make an announcement here, and then post on the proper Board when TSP is available. As for the bowling, I starved, but I was young and didn't notice. [8D] Oh, and I did make a few bucks as a hustler.

Originally posted by penworks
<br />Lou, just read about the TSW, keep me in mind when a batch comes in. Your Statesman pens will ship tomarrow. I read you bowled on the tour. I always wondered if you were not in the top 25 how they made a living. I've bowled for 30 years, just now cut back do to me knee & elbow pain. I really miss it.

 

[Efletche]

Lou, I used the TSW on my first cigar pen yesterday, using Australian Coolibah Burl. I sanded thru the micro-mesh and applied one coat of friction polish before applying your finish. The pen came out sooo sweeet! I have received many comments on it. Here is the pen, if anyone wants to see it.

<br />

 

[DCBluesman]

That's a beautiful pen, Edward. Thanks for taking a picture of it before someone "greenmails" you out of it! [8D]

 

[jkirkb94]

Lou, I have been keeping up with this link and I too would be interested in the TSW when you have it available. Kirk [8D]

 

[penhead]

Three EZpens for were requested by someone.

All three were sanded to 600 then quick trip through MM.

The Olivewood on the left was then Myland sanding sealer and then TSW. Next night another coat of TSW and buffed.

The two mesquite had only friction polish and then TSW.

Thanks,
JohnPayton

<br />

 

[wdcav1952]

Lou,
Like most of us, I am interested in TSW when you market it. At present, I am using the Enduro water-based sealer and Poly followed by Ren wax. If I follow the ideas presented here correctly, TSW should work well here in place of the Ren wax?
Thanks,
William

 

[DCBluesman]

I have a single instance reported of TSW possibly not working well with Enduro and am awaiting further testing and results. One thing to keep in mind when crossing poly's is that they are often at odds with each other unless the first coat is fully cured. With poly, that usually means a full 24-hours. It sets up quickly, but the internal movement takes a while to stop. The poly in TSW is no different (even though it's a minute amount. I have tried a couple of other poly based products and so have the testers with no negative results. I eagerly await a more definitive answer on the Enduro. [8D]

Originally posted by wdcav1952
<br />Lou,
Like most of us, I am interested in TSW when you market it. At present, I am using the Enduro water-based sealer and Poly followed by Ren wax. If I follow the ideas presented here correctly, TSW should work well here in place of the Ren wax?
Thanks,
William

 

[wayneis]

As long as I give it the full twenty four hours then it seems to work ok, the only thing I notice though is the is the slick feel and the pen and the plated parts don't show fingerprints as easy. As far as gloss and depth goes, I don't think that you can get much better than enduro. I was getting good results with CA but did not get the depth I get wih the Enduro and I also like the soft feel vs the hard feel of ca. After I add the TSW I have to be carefull because its a little on the slippery side.

Wayne

 

[Old Griz]

I have a question about using buffing wheels... when the TSW had dried 24 hours like recommended do you just use a dry buffing wheel to get the final finish or do you use a wax impregnated wheel... I am considering buying a buffing system... to date my "buffing system" has been elbow and old tshirts.. LOL...
Also what buffing wheel is recommended for the final buffing.. I have seen flannel and a bunch of others..

 

[DCBluesman]

Thanks for the update, Wayne. The high gloss finish will produce a "smooth-as-glass" finish that can be a bit slick. Hmmm...maybe that's why I prefer the satin finish. The "no fingerprints comment is coming through loud and clear. I don't know about the rest, but that's a big plus for me. [8D]

Originally posted by wayneis
<br />As long as I give it the full twenty four hours then it seems to work ok, the only thing I notice though is the is the slick feel and the pen and the plated parts don't show fingerprints as easy. As far as gloss and depth goes, I don't think that you can get much better than enduro. I was getting good results with CA but did not get the depth I get wih the Enduro and I also like the soft feel vs the hard feel of ca. After I add the TSW I have to be carefull because its a little on the slippery side.

Wayne

 

[DCBluesman]

You missed a post somewhere, Tom. You only need wait 4-8 hours for the final buff. A twenty-four hour wait is only needed if you decide to do more than one coat. As for buffing, do not use a wax impregnated wheel. TSW IS carnauba wax. I mostly hand buff with lint free cotton, like a t-shirt, but I know others who use the third buffing wheel of the Beall system, a cotton buffing wheel attached to a hand drill and others. [8D]

Originally posted by Old Griz
<br />I have a question about using buffing wheels... when the TSW had dried 24 hours like recommended do you just use a dry buffing wheel to get the final finish or do you use a wax impregnated wheel... I am considering buying a buffing system... to date my "buffing system" has been elbow and old tshirts.. LOL...
Also what buffing wheel is recommended for the final buffing.. I have seen flannel and a bunch of others..

 

[penhead]

I made a slimline of Dymondwood tonite per request of someone.

Normal sanding through 600 then quick trip through MM.

Not sure what I was thinking (or maybe I wasn't) but I didn't realize I had used TSW to polish it untill after I had already put it together.

Nice shine actually, so i

<br />s that gonna work or do I need to start over..??

Thanks,
JohnPayton

 

[DCBluesman]

You shouldn't have any problems. I've used it on bare wood for several pens. You may want a second coat is all. [8D]

 

[penhead]

Also made a couple of wild cherry stoppers and a wild cherry slimline per request.

Both stoppers and pen were sanded through 600 then MM.

Both stoppers were Myland sealer and then TSW.
Pen was only TSW.

Thanks,
JohnPayton

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