New finish testing

[DCBluesman]

I'm looking for a few volunteers to try out a new finish. It's a newly developed polish/wax that I've been using for a month or so. I like the results, but I'm prejudiced as I have been part of the development team. I can't give you all of the specifics, but I will tell you that it has the highest concentration of white carnauba wax in a polish and that the carnauba is toughened against human body oils and perspiration with a poly additive. This product contains NO VOC's or HAZMATs, and has a delighful fragrance...unusual for finishing products in our hobby.

What I'm looking for is 1-2 testers with extensive experience in using 1) friction finish, 2) WB lacquer finish, 3) solvent-based lacquer finish, 4) poly finish, 5) other finishes that I haven't mentioned. I ask that each tester try the product over their normal bottom and middle coats on a couple of pens or other wood projects. The application is simple and takes very little time.

The product will be furnished to you free of charge and you may keep any remainder at the end of the test. You should be able to use it to coat score of pens (if you like it as much as I do).

After your test, and hopefully within 30 days, I would then like your impression of the product in written form, along with a statement as to whether or not you would be willing to endorse it.

That's all there is to it. Anyone interested? If you are, please respond and let me know which finish you will combine this polish/wax with.

Thanks!

 

[C_Ludwigsen]

DC, I've used friction polish, CA, solvent-based lacquer, and BLO under solvent-based lacquer. As you know, I'm looking for alternatives to the CA. I intend to work more with the lacquers and with BLO to accent grain in certain woods. I've also come to be fairly analytical in my finishing process as I'm constantly watching for signs of adverse reaction.

I will also continue to work with friction polish when demonstrating. I have a demo coming up on the 23rd for the Mid South Woodturners Guild.

If I can be of assistance, please contact me at the email address in my profile.

Chuck

 

[ryannmphs]

DC,
I'd be interested in helping out as well. Chuck and I are "turning buddies", so hopefully that wouldn't be a problem.

You can contact me via my email address in my profile.

Ryan

 

[Doghouse]

DC, count me in if you want.

If it is solid, I would be interested in mixing it with the beall system and maybe some bowls.

Give me a call.

 

[Old Griz]

Lou count me in for testing if you still need people.. you have my number...
Tom

 

[darbytee]

Lou, I'm also more than willing if you need more volunteers.

 

[Bev Polmanteer]

I'm willing to test also.

 

[DCBluesman]

Thanks to all of you who have volunteered...including Scott whose arm was twisted a bit.[] I sent an email to each of you asking for your "snail mail" address. Do not reply here unless you want your address available to our 600+ members...just respond to my email or send me a message at DCBluesman@hotmail.com . These addresses will NOT be used except for this testing. Thanks so much for volunteering and I do have room for a few more folks if there is anyone out there who wants to test this new stuff, particularly those who may work in areas other than pens.

 

[pecartus]

I work with alot of flatwork items and am always looking for better finishes. If you still have room for one more, I would like to test it on a couple of flatwork items I am working on presently.

 

[Efletche]

I may not have the experience you are looking for, but I'm willing to help out as well.

 

[wayneis]

I'll through my name in the hat also, I've done most of the finishes that you mention and along with pens I do a few bowls and things. Let me know.

Wayne

 

[DCBluesman]

Wow! Thank you ALL for being so willing to help. I made my partner go scrape the bottom of the beaker (laffing) and I now have room for 6 more testers. I'm not sure if any of you who turn non-wood have an interest in a product like this, but if you're game, let me know. All product will go out in tomorrow's mail, assuming I have your address.

 

[DCBluesman]

Alright, folks, I've filled the roster. While I thought I'd get things in the mail today, it looks like tomorrow is more like it. Those of you getting samples are Jim R, Scott, Bev, Tom M, Wayne S, Eagle, Patrick C, Chuck L, Jeff B, Fred R, John S, and Ryan M. IF I missed anyone, please email me asap. Hopefuly in about a month I can post some results, but I'm counting on each of you!

 

[Efletche]

I've been doing alot of deer antler pens lately. If you want to try your finish on them, let me know.

 

[DCBluesman]

By all mean try this stuff on antler. I've never worked with the stuff, but am always curious.

 

[DCBluesman]

<b>The Process:</b> Using it is easy. Apply your base coat as you normally do, be it a sealer, friction finish, CA, poly, CA/BLO, or whatever you use. Then simply rub on a coat of TSW-1121 (project code, not its final name), wait a minute or two for it to bond and set, then wipe it off well with a clean cloth or even a paper towel. It does NOT need to be burned in, but can be applied and wiped down while on the lathe. Let it cure overnight, then lightly buff for a beautiful, hard, durable satin finish. Buff a bit longer for higher gloss.

<b>IMPORTANT:</b> This product contains tiny amounts of a polymer, so food and beverages should not be served on or in it. It’s fine for bottle stoppers and all display bowls. Also, although I have tried this product over the past month on at least 20 different woods and over many types of kit parts, I cannot be responsible for damage to any of your products beyond the actual cost of your materials. Besides, your time is priceless! October 5, 2004

<b>Addendum</b> October 9, 2004: If you want to try for an eye-opening finish, try this. After each buffing, wait 24 hours and add another coat…the more coats, the deeper the finish. I have one sample where the pen seems to be glistening deep within the finish. Even I can’t believe it.

<b>REQUESTED FEEDBACK</b> (courtesy of Chuck L): Please set up a document for each item you use the finish on. Please include:

- Item description
- Wood type(s)
- Pre-finish if applicable (sanding sealer / BLO)
- Pre-finish sanding grits
- Finish application notes including bonding wait time
- Post finish notes, wait time, observances
- Buffing steps used - desired sheen (semi or high gloss)
- Assembly notes
- Opinion and reasons

If this is too burdensome, just keep what info you can and drop me a note in a month.

 

[C_Ludwigsen]

Lou. I'm making this post "sticky" while the test is going on so it is easy for folks to find and refresh their memory. Do you want testing results sent to YOU and (a) not posted here, (b) optionally posted here, (c) please post here?

If you need the results sent only to you I will lock this thread and post a caution message.

Looking forward to the product.

 

[DCBluesman]

Thanks, Chuck....and no, please let the results flow through. If these folks are kind enough to try my stuff out, I'm more than happy to let the evaluations be public...praise or criticism. If they wish to send "blind" results, they can email me. [8D] (I hope that's not in bad taste...[])

 

[Doghouse]

- Item description
- Wood type(s) - White oak crotch

- Pre-finish if applicable - none
- Pre-finish sanding grits - 220 and beall (NO WAX)
- Finish application notes including bonding wait time - wiped on and waited to glaze over like car polish.
then buffed out with same cloth. Repeated 1 time.

- Post finish notes, wait time, observances - used the beall system to final buff and it is a glass like
surface. Very nice.
- Buffing steps used - desired sheen (semi or high gloss) - see above high gloss
- Assembly notes
- Opinion and reasons - Smell was plesant, wonder if it is safe for clear coat cars? Considering the level of sheen, I would use it on my whole truck. I took the wine stoppers to dinner and it was handled all through the meal on and off the bottle. Wine was splashed on it and appeared to have no ill effect and no loss in sheen.

 

[DCBluesman]

Thanks, John. And let me tell you that this stuff IS great for clear coated cars. In fact, it's perfectly formulated for them. You can put on coat after coat to create a deep lustre...you can do that with wood as well. And that pleasant smell, think cocoanuts. [8D]

 

[C_Ludwigsen]

Nice summary, John. You know we wants pictures!!! Can't wait to get my batch to experiment as well.

 

[Old Griz]

- Item description
- Wood type(s) - Red Wood Burl
- Pre-finish if applicable - BLO/CA
- Pre-finish sanding grits - 600
- Finish application notes including bonding wait time - wiped on and waited to glaze over, then buffed out with same cloth. Assembled pen.
- Post finish notes, wait time, observances - Waited until following morning and Soft cotton cloth to final buff it to a glass like surface.
- Buffing steps used - desired sheen (semi or high gloss) - see above high gloss
- Assembly notes
- Opinion and reasons - Nice pleasant smell...
Was a little apprehensive about time to apply and buff since I usually do 10-20 pens at a time... but final buffing of assembled pen turned out not to be a problem..
Gloss went from satin to high gloss with little extra effort..
My Wife carry this pen with her to see how the finish holds up...
Observed same effects on black locust, jatoba, curly maple pens..

 

[ryannmphs]

I got my sample in yesterday's mail. I'll be testing it and reporting the results in the next day or two.

Ryan

 

[Efletche]

Anyone going to post a few pics of the ir pens with this test finish applied?

 

[DCBluesman]

I certainly hope so. How about it Tom? John? I'll be posting a picture tonight of a sindora burl pen that I finished yesterday. Let's see what results others are getting!

 

[DCBluesman]

Here it is. Sindora burl Titanium gold Gentleman Jr. pen finished with sanding sealer bottom coat and TSW-1121 top coat.

<b>Image Insert:</b><br />

<br /> 17.83&nbsp;KB

 

[darbytee]

- Item description- slimline pen
- Wood type(s) - Maple Burl
- Pre-finish if applicable - BLO/CA
- Pre-finish sanding grits - 1200 then EEE
- Finish application notes including bonding wait time - wiped on and waited approximately 5 minutes, then buffed off with same cloth
- Post finish notes, wait time, observances -
- Buffing steps used - desired sheen (semi or high gloss) - high gloss
- Assembly notes- no issues
- Opinion and reasons - Great smell
Just got my sample today and was anxious to try it out. I'll carry this pen starting tomorrow and will post results on how it wears.

<b>Image Insert:</b><br />

<br /> 45.31&nbsp;KB

 

[Old Griz]

Here are pics of the pens I did with the new finish... all Executive Roller Balls.... various light to dark woods... all polished up real well to a high gloss.. These were made after the first couple I tested... got a better hand on the application and buffing process on these... just a little learning curve... first time I did not follow the directions correctly and they still turned out good.. but these are even better...
- Item description
- Wood type(s) - Various (See Pictures)
- Pre-finish if applicable - BLO/CA
- Pre-finish sanding grits - 600
- Finish application notes including bonding wait time - wiped on and waited to glaze over, then buffed out with same cloth. Assembled pen.
- Post finish notes, wait time, observances - Waited until following morning and Soft cotton cloth to final buff it to a glass like surface.
- Buffing steps used - Old cotton tshirt buffed to high gloss

 

[Efletche]

I have to say, not only are your pens great looking but your photographt is great too! I definately like the brilliance this finish added to your work.

 

[wayneis]

Tom, why does some of that look familiar, especially the Redwood and the Thuya. Is it from what I sent to you? Wherever it came from you did a nice job with it because they all look good. I like those kits, they allow for a lot of wood. I also like the classic rollerballs, but the bits are a little expensive but the lines of the pen is just so nice. I had to buy a bunch of kits to make up for the expense of the bits. Nice job.

Wayne

 

[Old Griz]

Yes Wayne that Redwood came from you... the thuya was from another source..
I agree those kits are the ones to use if you really want to show off some fancy wood... it is a shame the maples did not come out as good as they really are...
It is not a photograph... I put the pens on my flatbed scanner and set the resolution to 200dpi and adjust the brightness and contrast to get a good scan...
I got the kits from Cedarman (http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1179) he is selling off kits for someone whose husband used to be a pen turner.. great prices... and got them real quick...

 

[wayneis]

Tom Let me know when you turn something from the birds eye that I sent you. I have not had the chance to use it yet but think it will make a really nice pen or something or other.

Wayne

 

[jwoodwright]

Lou, if it's not too late, I'd like to try it. Can you Mail it? I'm in Anchorage, Alaska. Tough to get any finishing materials sent through Mail.[]

 

[tipusnr]

I'm too busy at other things to be a reliable tester but, from what I'm reading, let me know when you go to market with it. I'll definitely buy some.

If you, for some reason, decide not to go to market I like to get some anyway. Keep us posted!

 

[DCBluesman]

Those of you who have already started using TSW-1121 are too kind. Thanks for the emails and postings of encouragement.

And for those of you who are asking when it will be available and how much it will cost, please rest assured that it will be available as soon as I feel that my testers have sufficiently tried it and believe that it has value. This is a test. IF it doesn't produce excellent results, I'll go back to the drawing board...no harm, no foul. I value my reputation too much to sell an unproven product.

I'm shooting to begin sales, <u>to IAP members only</u>, before Thanksgiving if all goes well. The members of this site have treated me like family...well at least like the dumb cousin who needs schooling [] since I joined and I will partially repay my debt by letting IAP members have first purchase for at least two months before offering it to anyone else (well, my own customers will probably get a chance too...but no other woodworkers for 60 days).

As for the price, it will be competitive to and probably less than Renaissance Wax. Quantity discounts will be available to any of you who wish to order for resale to your customers. Now some of you may wonder why I think it should be priced like that and all I can tell you is that I believe it to be a superior product and since I'm just starting out I do not have a large base of sales to spread my costs over. I will tell you that ultimately the market determines the price. I will be as responsive to you good folks as I can be.

Now if you will indulge me one more time, <b>please let me know if the 1/2 ounce size that seems to sell the best is a good size</b>. Rather than clog up the arteries here with posts, consider emailing me your responses directly, DCBluesman@hotmail.com . [8D]

 

[Doghouse]

That would depend on the price. I would perfer to purchase a larger size. My fingers don't quite work that size. (I hope to get a pic up tomorrow morn.) I have use up a good portion of it. Just wait until you see.

 

[C_Ludwigsen]

I have 2 pens turned and ready for the finish - which will happen tomorrow. I also cut and drilled about 10 others this evening. Three of these are specifically test pens for the TSW-1121. One of those will get BLO/TSW, one will get sanding sealer/TSW, and the other will get a lacquer finish then TSW. I will be posting pics sometime next week.

 

[DCBluesman]

<b>FIRST NEGATIVE RESULT:</b> (edited but all relevance retained)
used BLO/shelac finish on the pen,followed by Butchers wax(it's advertised as bowling alley wax containing carnauba)
I wanted to see what your finish would do to liven it up.
Since you said it could be used on cars I coated all the pieces.
....in the process of buffing out the filigree in the center band I took all the gold off the band itself.
The band is now silver.( I have a jeweler friend who will replate it for me.)
I am chalking it up to my error but maybe you should warm others.
I normally buff out my pens on the lathe with a buffing wheel chucked into a hand drill.
It's possible that my wheel was contaminated but regardless caution should be taken on plated parts.
Like I said, my mistake, not the fault of the finish.

My take on this is:
1. I do not advise using TSW-1121 with other waxes. I'm VERY familiar with Butcher's Paste, having worked with it for 6 years in the bowling alley business. It's a great wax, but full of polishing compounds (it takes the scratches off the lanes). Combining the polishing compounds with the poly in the TSW-1121 may have resulted in "polishing" the gold-plate right off of the pieces. So far, none of the other testers have had this problem.

2. A long buffing of the product is unnecessary, even to reach a glass-like gloss. Less than a minute will bring out all the gloss you will get. If you want more depth to the finish, wait 24 hours after the first coat and add a second. Each coat adds depth.

3. For those of you using buffing wheels, be sure to keep them for exclusive use. Tripoli, Diamond, carnauba and TSW-1121 all need their own wheel. Contamination can cause awful results.

This being said, I apologize to the tester and offer, as I have stated before, to replace the kit as well as the blank. I still stand behind this stuff, but please be advised.

 

[its_virgil]

Unless the finish is titanium, or whatever the different mfgs call it,it can be buffed off very easily. I don't think the wax had anyting to do with it. Could be wrong...have been before...and will again. I have tried to buff off TiAu and was not successful.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br /><b>FIRST NEGATIVE RESULT:</b> (edited but all relevance retained)
used BLO/shelac finish on the pen,followed by Butchers wax(it's advertised as bowling alley wax containing carnauba)
I wanted to see what your finish would do to liven it up.
Since you said it could be used on cars I coated all the pieces.
....in the process of buffing out the filigree in the center band I took all the gold off the band itself.
The band is now silver.( I have a jeweler friend who will replate it for me.)
I am chalking it up to my error but maybe you should warm others.
I normally buff out my pens on the lathe with a buffing wheel chucked into a hand drill.
It's possible that my wheel was contaminated but regardless caution should be taken on plated parts.
Like I said, my mistake, not the fault of the finish.

My take on this is:
1. I do not advise using TSW-1121 with other waxes. I'm VERY familiar with Butcher's Paste, having worked with it for 6 years in the bowling alley business. It's a great wax, but full of polishing compounds (it takes the scratches off the lanes). Combining the polishing compounds with the poly in the TSW-1121 may have resulted in "polishing" the gold-plate right off of the pieces. So far, none of the other testers have had this problem.

2. A long buffing of the product is unnecessary, even to reach a glass-like gloss. Less than a minute will bring out all the gloss you will get. If you want more depth to the finish, wait 24 hours after the first coat and add a second. Each coat adds depth.

3. For those of you using buffing wheels, be sure to keep them for exclusive use. Tripoli, Diamond, carnauba and TSW-1121 all need their own wheel. Contamination can cause awful results.

This being said, I apologize to the tester and offer, as I have stated before, to replace the kit as well as the blank. I still stand behind this stuff, but please be advised.

 

[Doghouse]

3 are finished wiith beall, 3 have the new finsh. Which?


The left 3 have the new finish on them. They even feel slick.