New Alternative Accelerator for Thin CA - "Super Tight Ass Method"

[timberbits]

Hey Guys.

Ever since I have succeeded with the Glen 20 method, I have pushed the boundaries a bit with what else I could use to bring it to the next level.

Tried a few other products but had limited success.

Was feeling a bit down over the weekend, so I stuffed my face with junk food while watching a old Military Movies. I managed to do 5 movies straight. While watching the Hunt for Red October, one of the scenes got me thinking - steam! (this was 4am in the morning)

All excited and now feeling much brighter because of the new invention, I gave it a try. Success! Should of though of this much earlier.

Give it a go and let me know what you guys think about this new method.

http://youtu.be/AbCUGc-w5p0

Timberbits

 

[firewhatfire]

Now my wife is gonna be wondering why I have her Iron in the Studio. At least I want need the ironing board.

 

[Powerstroke 7.3]

We have a steam cleaner with a wand that dosen't get used (until now)- the wife won't miss it...

 

[patmurris]

Interesting approach...
I was under the impression moisture is what you want to avoid with CA, making it foggy?

 

[bensoelberg]

Interesting approach...
I was under the impression moisture is what you want to avoid with CA, making it foggy?

That was my first thought also.

 

[robutacion]

I don't know David, I reckon you are watching too many movies mate, I just can't see the water steam be any good for the CA...! moisture will be in between coats and it will peel later on, like bananas. But I would like to be proved wrong, if possible...!

Cheers
George

 

[timberbits]

Interesting approach...
I was under the impression moisture is what you want to avoid with CA, making it foggy?

I believe it is the moisture in the air that causes CA to set.

Wikipedia
"In general, cyanoacrylate is an acrylic resin that rapidly polymerises in the presence of water (specifically hydroxide ions), forming long, strong chains, joining the bonded surfaces together. Because the presence of moisture causes the glue to set, exposure to moisture in the air can cause a tube or bottle of glue to become unusable over time. "

Most commercial accelerators have baking soda in the formula to make the reaction go faster

Again Wikipedia
"When added to baking soda (sodium bicarbonate), cyanoacrylate glue forms a hard, lightweight filler/adhesive (baking soda is first used to fill a gap then the adhesive is dropped onto the baking soda). This works well with porous materials that the glue does not work well with alone. This method is sometimes used by aircraft modelers to assemble or repair polystyrene foam parts. It is also used to repair small nicks in the leading edge of composite propeller blades on light aircraft. Note that the reaction between cyanoacrylate and baking soda is very exothermic (heat-producing) and also produces noxious vapors."

Like I said in the past, I am not a chemical engineer but the method seems to produce a really nice finish on my pens.

I find that by adding another layer of thin CA on, it dissolves a bit of the last layer and builds up the thickness. This means it shouldn't "peel later on, like bananas" or an onion to add to the metaphor.

Regards

Timberbits

 

[cnirenberg]

My wife is still "steaming" over me using her toaster oven to cure PR, now I have to get her even more ticked over the coffee maker and iron plugged in by the lathe.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Most commercial accelerators have baking soda in the formula to make the reaction go faster

Are you sure about this or did this come from Wikipedia? According to the MSDS for at least one brand of commercial activator, the chemicals are:

Acetone 68.0%
N-Butane 14.0%
Propane 15.0%

Now, this only ads up to 97% so I guess it is possible the other 3% is baking soda but would think it would be listed. I would guess the other 3% is water, though.

 

[socdad]

Could it be the heat that sets the CA … not the moisture? Might try a heat gun but I'll be sure to have the fire extinguisher near by ...

 

[patmurris]

...do i understand right? CA accelerator can simply be replaced by water and baking soda!

 

[robutacion]

...do i understand right? CA accelerator can simply be replaced by water and baking soda!

I have my doubts about that...!:wink:

Cheers
George

 

[rsulli16]

hi
another 2 cents worth
i see he is using thin CA. anyone have problems with thin CA not setting fast enough? by the time i am ready with the paper towel and the CA container in the right position for the next coat the previous coat has set well enough.

sulli

 

[patmurris]

That's one other thing... i'm not experienced enough and use thin CA and BLO right now, but do you need accelerator with thin CA? It cures so fast... just watch it spin 30 seconds and move on to the next coat?

 

[Bree]

Makes perfect sense. It is moisture in the wood that causes cure of the CA on a wood blank. It is the ABSENCE of moisture that sometimes causes failure of the CA to bond to the CA on the inner areas of the tube with acrylics... sometimes it bonds only at the ends and the blank will spin under stress when the small cured area at the ends fails. Which is why I shoot accelerator down the hole of every acrylic blank that I glue up with CA. I have often thought about misting but never had enough urge to do it since I have a lot of accelerator. But I think i will try it since David makes it look so easy.

Gonna try it with a plain mister first and then maybe with the Shark steamer that we have for cleaning the bathroom tiles and the like.

 

[patmurris]

...maybe just exhaling a couple times over the spinning barrel will do it - we are all some sort of steam machines!

 

[Jim Burr]

If I remember my organic chem...water, along with a few trace minerals, is the primary component in steam...thus the exothermic reaction? It is quite possible I'm wrong, happens on an hourly basis and I'm glad to say "I screwed up"

 

[arcwick08]

The butane and propane could be used to expedite the evaporation, as their boiling points are way, way, way down there.
Has anybody tried vapor-distilled water?

 

[jjudge]

Its the hydroxyl that causes CA to polymerize (cure) -- but, from experience, water really makes CA turn white.

There was a post years ago about using a water spritzer in place of buying an accellerator. The msg was: don't buy accelerator use breath/water, and don't use accellerator at all if you want structural bonding (i.e., don't acellerate glueing tubes.

So, its a game of balance -- getting steam, breath, humidity, etc at the CA to harden ... but not enough to turn it white.

The tight-ass video shows the finish getting white. So, I'm guessing its just the top layer, which is sanded lightly or finished with polish to remove.

 

[okiebugg]

accelerant

The butane and propane could be used to expedite the evaporation, as their boiling points are way, way, way down there.
Has anybody tried vapor-distilled water?

I have been using a common vaporizer for the past several years as an accelerant in place of the more expensive brand. Although not quite as quick to set, it meets my needs. I've tried both distilled and tap water and have seen no difference in the characteristics.

Wally World has several models that are inexpensive with vectoring type nozzles so you can "aim" the vapor at the project at hand.

I cannot imagine myself (clumsy) having 212 degree water at my elbow that I would have to turn, pick up, aim, and put it back on the heat source. I would end up in the burn ward.

I don't add this as being disrespectful to the timberbits author, just another way of pushing the norm.