My Version Of BLO/CA Pen Finish (utube)

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GouletPens

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I do mostly burls and I have to say my experience is more like Marc's....a little less than impressive. It seems that the final coat is much thinner, and with the burls I do regularly like amboyna, the voids just don't fill and there's not a nice glossy coat like when I use straight CA. I'm glad so many people are finding this method to work well for them. But for me, I've basically practiced up a method of doing straight CA that is faster and leaves a much thicker and glossier finish, which is what I need for the burls. I don't think I've tried this on a regular wood pen though. Maybe it works better I dunno.
 

ngeb528

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I just started using the CA/BLO finish and started with William's method.

I've succeeded on two in a row but I changed the ending process because we don't have the plastic polish. Instead, I take the last 4 grits of mm (4000, 6000, 8000 & 12000) and it really gets a good shine going.

Thanks, William, for sharing your expertise. It made the whole process a lot let intimidating.
 

Boomer

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I have a small question about the waxing of the ends. Is rubbing some of the wax on the ends enough to keep from sticking to the bushings or should you put some on the bushings? I am just asking because I have never tried using BLO/CA. Thanks for showing.
 

leehljp

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I have a small question about the waxing of the ends. Is rubbing some of the wax on the ends enough to keep from sticking to the bushings or should you put some on the bushings? I am just asking because I have never tried using BLO/CA. Thanks for showing.

You will get different answers from different people. For this reason, it is good to experiment. It it doesn't work after three or four tries, don't do it. If it works continually, then do it.

Wax will migrate to the wood on top and cause some adhesion problems for some people in some circumstances (or most circumstances). Once you get a few perfect finishes and one or two ruin suddenly because the CA "lifts", you will :eek: swear at the method! If you never have that happen, then you will post a note to the next person that asks the same question that it must be their methodology. :wink:

I used to wax the bushings and wipe off the excess with paper towel. It worked OK but not great.
. . . One Factor here: There are two different approaches in using CA as a finish.
1. Williams and Russ's tend to use many thin coats - which does form a consistent but relatively thin overall coating in spite of the many coats. The bushings "break" or snap off fairly cleanly. These fellows don't usually have "lift" problems and wax doesn't seem to bother it that much.
2. Others put several medium or thick layers of CA without using paper towel (or with PT used with a light touch). This leaves a thicker final layer of CA. This method (for me) tends to cause the CA lifting more, especially when snapping the bushings off. I have noticed those with CA "lifting" to be in this camp.

This "lifting" is magnified with "oily woods" and or with "bushing wax" on thicker finishes. I keep mentioning "lift" because it is related in some circumstances to waxing bushings. The other side of the coin is sticking bushings! :wink:
 
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W.Y.

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I have a small question about the waxing of the ends. Is rubbing some of the wax on the ends enough to keep from sticking to the bushings or should you put some on the bushings? I am just asking because I have never tried using BLO/CA. Thanks for showing.
__________________

Sorry for the late response. I have been busy at non woodworking things lately.
Yes, a little wax on the ends is enough to stop the CA from sticking to the bushings . . A little of that will transfer to the bushings when the nut is pulled up tight on the end of the mandrel.

Hank Lee brought up some good points but I have never once had finish lift with the BLO/CA method but I did when using straight CA.
The concern about a trace of wax being left on the top side of the blank even if wiping it off first is a mute point from my particular experience. After all the first application before the CA is BLO which will mix perfectly with any trace of wax on the blank. If in doubt , just wipe a little acetone on the ends where there might be a trace of wax to remove it but up to this point I have never , ever had any sign of the finish lifting at any time. Actually , any hard oily woods should be wiped with acetone before applying any kind of finish.

Back to a question on another page here, there was a concern that applying Ren Wax on top of a high shine BLO/CA finish dulled it somewhat. Never heard tell of that but all I can suggest is buffing it on a Beal buffer or something similar.
I did not have much luck myself with Ren wax and don't use it anymore. Not because of shine but because of it drying out into a hard cake even though the lid was securely fastened between uses. The best wax I have found for a final finish on pens is TSW which I now use exclusively as a final polish to prevent fingerprinting .

For anyone that does not have good luck with the BLO/CA finish all I can say is that perhaps a little more practice is required or they are happy enough with whatever else works best for them. I do not advocate that the BLO/CA finish is the "best" finish for everyone. It just happens to be the best finish that I have have used and I have total respect for anyone that uses their own finish of choice. The video tutorial was just made to offer an alternative finish that will and has pleased some but certainly not all .
Happy pen turning and above all have fun. :wink:
 

david975

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William- thanks for the video. Your method has worked better for me than others, BUT, I still run into (every 4th pen or so) the towel drying right away into the CA on the blank and the blank becomes "fuzzy" with fibers in dry CA. I use the medium CA, same towels, slower speed and move back and forth quickly- frustration ensues-
 

Seer

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I usewd to hate doing a CA finish never came out but since I started doing this one I can actually say I am happy with the results.
 

W.Y.

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William- thanks for the video. Your method has worked better for me than others, BUT, I still run into (every 4th pen or so) the towel drying right away into the CA on the blank and the blank becomes "fuzzy" with fibers in dry CA. I use the medium CA, same towels, slower speed and move back and forth quickly- frustration ensues-
I'll bet it is grabbing the towel just at the point where it goes dull before it gets shiny. As soon as you see it going dull like that move back and forth very quickly while applying some finger pressure on the towel . A few seconds later it will turn shiny and wont grab anymore.
You mentioned slower speed . If you meant moving back and forth on the blank you need to do that at a faster speed . If you meant slower speed on your lathe you might want to try higher. As mentioned in the video I do the whole process at 1800 rpm..
It does take a little practice but once you get the hang of it I bet it will be you favorite pen finish.
Keep at it and good luck. You will no doubt get it down pat after a few more tries.

I really had no idea that this method would have created so much interest and so many positive remarks. I thought lots of turners had been doing it similar to the way I do but I had only read about it. As a picture is worth a thousand words I decided to make my first ever video and shared it in case it would be of help to some . I expected to just get a few views and be forgotten but I am still getting thanks on emails and various sites about it.
 

wb7whi

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I had always used Russ's method and the pens came out fine. I knew they were protected, had a good feel and looked like wood.
There were times though when I would have like a streaky finish (slim highlight) but I could never quite get it but now I can.
So, to me your described method just added another tool to work with. Boy, is that African Blackwood gonna be suprised next time.
 

evanslmtd

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Has anyone ever compared a blo/ca finish next to a all ca finish, following the same steps when all coats have been applied.???? I may have to do that some day and see if the shine is dulled any with the blo added.
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John T.

John T.
I just compared a 3 coat blo/ca finish I did this afternoon to a 10 coat ca finish I did yesterday afternoon. IMO, the 3 coat blo/ca finish looks better. It seems to have more depth and shine to it. Plus, there wasn't any wet sanding mess involved.
I'm going to try a 6 coat blo/ca finish in the next few days to see if that'll look even better. I'll post the results after I get it finished
 

jttheclockman

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Has anyone ever compared a blo/ca finish next to a all ca finish, following the same steps when all coats have been applied.???? I may have to do that some day and see if the shine is dulled any with the blo added.
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John T.

John T.
I just compared a 3 coat blo/ca finish I did this afternoon to a 10 coat ca finish I did yesterday afternoon. IMO, the 3 coat blo/ca finish looks better. It seems to have more depth and shine to it. Plus, there wasn't any wet sanding mess involved.
I'm going to try a 6 coat blo/ca finish in the next few days to see if that'll look even better. I'll post the results after I get it finished


Hi Barry

Good to see you are giving the different finishing techniques a try. Someday I may find time to do this also. I won't do a pen but just make up a couple dowels of a nice grained wood and run through the testing. Just curious, on your test and I never used 10 coats of anything but when you did the CA/BLO, did you apply the blo to the blank first or did you seal it with CA??? The reason I ask is blo will highlight grain more so than straight CA because blo is an oil. It has a natural color. If you are going to do a true test you need to treat both blanks equal. If you do not seal the blo/ca blank before using Bill's method then you need to put blo on the all ca blank and let it dry before you apply the 10 coats of ca.Not sure if I wrote that clear enough but hopefully you understood what I was getting at.

Now this is just a question I was wondering about so whatever method you feel comfortable with is the method you should stick too. In the end the final look is what matters. I am going to even try poly and some enduro. I bought Behlen's finish at the last woodworking show so I am going to give that a try also. I just have so many irons in the fire right now I do not have much shop time. But please report back to us. It will be an interesting read.
 

evanslmtd

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John T.
The test Pen I did with the ca/blo was a Sierra that I used a cut off piece of scrap laminated blank to build. That piece of blank was pretty rough (which was why it was in the scrap bag). I didn't start using the blo till the second coat.
The Sierra that i used for a comparison was done in a BOW and had 10 coats of thin ca applied, then water sanded through 1200 MM.
The photos aren't the best, but I think you'll be able to see the difference in the finishes (although it's not as apparent as seeing the two Pens up close and personal).
IMO, even if both the finishes looked the same, the ca/blo was faster to apply without all the sanding mess.

Sierra BOW w/10 coat ca finish

Sierra-Chrome-BOW.jpg


Sierra Laminate w/ca/blo finish

Sierra-WallstreetChrome-Maple-Pahuk.jpg
 

jttheclockman

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Barry

Great job and thanks for showing it. All I can say is everyone has their choice of finish and if this works for you and you are satisfied then by all means continue to use it and turn out those great looking pens.That is what this hobby is all about. I tell you the more I turn acrylic the more and more I like it over wood. The color choices are endless. Are we having fun yet???:)
 

evanslmtd

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John T.
Thanks for the kind words about the Pens.
I too use a lot of acrylics and agree with you about them having endless color/pattern choices. However, my first choice is wood. I prefer the way they look and feel.
 

W.Y.

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Barry.
I too use a lot of acrylics and agree with you about them having endless color/pattern choices. However, my first choice is wood. I prefer the way they look and feel.
Nice looking pens there . I too like those Sierras and I am finding I like the click top Sierras's even better .

Nice experiment. Glad the BLO/CA works well for you. It sure does save a lot of time and who likes long drawn out finishes ?
When I made the video I had no idea it would have been so well accepted. I am still getting emails from utube and other sites from ones that have tried it. I expected maybe a 50/50 response because some are so set in their ways that they will be the first to critisize something they have never done before and won't try something new until they see enough proof that it actually does work.

As far as acrylic goes, I too prefer wood but acrylic does sell about 50% against its wood counterpart . Now if only acrylic was free like most of the woods are . . . . . .
Who likes finishing of *anything* ? . I love the way acrilyc just has to be turned and sanded and poished and it's done.

357160890.jpg





This Bullet Cartridge pen has the BLO/CA finish on the antler part.


Chromeonwhite.jpg
 
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evanslmtd

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William
Thanks for the kind words about the Pens.
I agree that some people are very hesitant to try new things. That's too bad because they're destined to keep doing the same thing over and over with no chance of improvement.
I just started turning some "True stone" blanks and really like the way they look. I got them and some other Acrylic blanks from Exotic Blanks here on the Board.
I haven't tried the click top Sierra's yet, but will do so shortly.
 

mokol

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William, thanks for the video. i tried your method and it worked great . mokol
 

W.Y.

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Thanks mokol.
I am getting 99% favorable responses and that's good enough for the girls I go with. :biggrin:
One of the major pen parts distributors of high quality Berea kits even put the tutorial about it directly from my Woodworking Friends website into his own website along with the video because he likes it better than the finishing product he has been using for years. . He contacted me after trying it and was so pleased with the results that he asked my permission to include it in his site. Of course I said sure . . no problem :wink:

http://www.beartoothwoods.com/catalog/faq_ca_blo_finishing.php.

After seeing it being accepted as well as it was I wish I had done the video a little more professional looking. It was my first ever video and it was the first run through without any extra takes or editing . Just sat the camera on a tripod beside me and did one run through and dumped it into my computer and then into utube . If and when I make another video I will be more careful to get it more to my liking before loading it into utube.

Here are a couple I did just yesterday with click top Sierra's in both copper and chrome on figured walnut.

CopperandChrome.jpg
 
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mokol

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William, i'll take your video- as is- over several professional videos i have seen.
i have avoided CA finishes for years because the mess, bumps, and sanding. the first pen i tried with your method came out great ,mokol
 

Dai Sensei

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Certainly looks like a quick and easy ay of doing the CA finish William, thanks for sharing.

I have been using CA finishes for quite some time, being reluctant to mix oil and glue, as I was always worried it would delaminate in time. I guess time will tell, but there are certainly advantages of trying your technique.

As for the issue of sticking to bushes and wax etc, I use bushes I make from cutting boards for my finishing, eliminates the problem all together. It also avoids problems associated with various waxes/finishes reacting with metals.

Cheers
 

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W.Y.

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Neil .
No problem with that drop of BLO with the CA . It's action is to cure the CA along with friction heat.

Great idea on the cutting board material. I don't have any problem whatsoever with CA sticking to bushings when applying a little wax on the ends but when I got my first order of these PSI Bullet Cartrige pen kits I forgot to order bushings for them.

BulletCartridgeJPG.jpg


So not to be beat and also to not wait for a separate order with more S/H , I made a set of bushings from corian . Bushings are very easy to make because all the pen kit assembly sheets give exact diameters of them both inside and out . All that is required is dial calipers .
They worked so well that when I ordered a bunch more of those kits I didn't even order the bushings then because the corian ones worked just fine.
With that said, I think the cutting board material woud be easier to turn than corian and I am curious what the cutting board material actually is. . ? ?
My wife might find a strip missing from her cutting board one day :biggrin:

PSICartridgePenBushings.jpg
 

rwyoung

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Most of the "slickery" plastic cutting boards are going to be made of ultra-high density polyethelene (HDP or UHDP). You can get cheap cutting boards from discount stores, $1 stores, and in some cases you can get used one from resturants or butchers as they are using them up and must dispose of them. I'd suggest a quick bleach soak just to make sure kill the beasties stuck down in the cracks of a used board.

You can also buy HDP/UHDP various places like Peachtree Woodworking or McMaster-Carr.

Another term used to describe the same stuff is ultra-high molecular density polyethelene or UHMDP.

Another good material would be Delrin (that is the trademark name, I can't remember the generic chemical name right now) which is chemically related to Teflon but machines a bit easier. Again, you can buy small blocks from places like McMaster-Carr.
 

Dai Sensei

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Neil, any chance you'd be willing to sell a few of those cutting board bushings? Or at least an Idiot's Guide to making them?

I'm in Australia, so not worth your while buying them from me, but they are easy to make.

Get a thick cutting board, drill holes to suit your mandrel (I use differently coloured boards for each different mandrel). Mount the the little squares on your your mandrel with bushes as spacers, then turn them to suit. Use very light cuts, especially at the start, as they tend to slip a bit. I use sleeves for my Slimlimes/Streamlines, cones for the other larger kits.

Hope this helps, sorry for the high-jack William :biggrin:
 

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