My Version Of BLO/CA Pen Finish (utube)

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W.Y.

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Kaspar.
What speed were you using ?
Someone actually emailed me and asked what speed I use. I explained that right near the start ov the video after I apply wax to the ends I say that I am firing up the lathe at 1800 rpm .
Just wondering if you missed that also.
I never have to sand after applying that finish.
Hope that helps.
 
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Rudy Vey

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I just did this finish today on a spalted Afzelia blank (and used the cheap white towel from BJ's) - works like a charm!! It is actually quicker than my "Ca-The New Way" application of thin CA. What I like that there is no final sanding needed. Just sanded to 3200 MM and then I applied 6 coats and it took maybe 4-5 minutes. Will do a few more pens tomorrow.
 

rcflyer23

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I just tried this and it works amazingly. This is the first time that I have produced a great finish. I can't wait to try it on a couple more pens.
 

Kaspar

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Kaspar.
What speed were you using ?
Someone actually emailed me and asked what speed I use. I explained that right near the start ov the video after I apply wax to the ends I say that I am firing up the lathe at 1800 rpm .
Just wondering if you missed that also.
I never have to sand after applying that finish.
Hope that helps.


I saw the speed you use, as stated in the video. I used it when I attempted your finish. I like it. 1800 rpm is about three times the speed I used for my CA finish. As I said, I suspect my slower speed was the cause of the roughness which I then had to sand out. Using the 1800 rpm may be the solution to that. And think I can probably make it work using my CA / Accelerator method and completely eliminate sanding as well, once I've done it a few more times.
 

W.Y.

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And think I can probably make it work using my CA / Accelerator method and completely eliminate sanding as well, once I've done it a few more times.


After practicing CA/Acelerator , please let us know how that works for you.
I use accelerator for lots of CA applications but pen finishing is not one of them. Any time I used acelerator even as a very light mist of the aerosol type I had to sand after it. Pump bottles were out of the quetion. You might find that Applying straight CA at that speed will deposit some of the paper towel onto your blank . At least it did for me in previous experiments.

BLO costs a fraction of the price of accelerator and doesn't have the bad smell of accelerator and requires no sanding at all after using it.

If using accelerator along with CA works good for you then I am happy for you. Many of us have ways of doing things that work better for us than it does for others.
Sure would be a dull world if there was only one way. :wink:
 
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Kaspar

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I will. It is possible that the BLO is a sort of kinder, gentler fast curative and that is why you don't have to sand afterward. If I find out that's what works, I'll drop the other method like a hot rock.
 

Tn-Steve

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I will. It is possible that the BLO is a sort of kinder, gentler fast curative and that is why you don't have to sand afterward. If I find out that's what works, I'll drop the other method like a hot rock.
Yes, BLO acts as a mild accelerent for the CA, it also acts as a lubricant to help you smooth it out.

I tried this technique for the first time, making a pen for my own use, (Sedona / Lacewood). It worked like a charm, even if I did try to mess it up. Sanded thru 600 grit (usually I go all the way thru the MM dry, I think that that brings up a bit more action in the wood, and it doesn't take but a few minutes)

Put on about 6 coats, doing it by the book. The things I noticed is that the "Pinching" step seems to be the key, once it's on and good and smooth, that cooks it off and I suspect that you're getting a 'burnishing' action. That would explain the very smooth surface that results. It also seem to do a better job of filling the grain, again I'm falling back on the burnishing option.

I did a wet sand on the it thru the last 4 grits MM, didn't much like that. (of course I also used a fair amount of pressure, since my previous CA technique required a fair amount of sanding)

A couple more coats to undo the damage I did, a quick spin with some MMAP and it was looking good. A quick hit on the buffer with tripoli and White Diamond, really gleaming, good crisp sharp reflections of the light bulb. A quick spin with some Hutts Ultra Plastic Polish, and I had one of the best ones I've done yet, and it was super simple, and if I hadn't tried to vamp in the middle of the process, super quick.

I think that I may have just found a new favorite technique, thanks you William for sharing it.

Steve
 

W.Y.

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Thanks Steve. I am glad it is working for you.

When I made that video , I had no idea that it would be accepted as well as it was. I had no idea that my method was much different than what some others were already doing. I had tried different ways of applying CA as a finish and actually gave up on it several times . But I kept coming back to see if I could make it work to my satisfaction. . It was a couple of years of experimenting and editing my tutorial in my own site that led up to the way I do it now.
The original tutorial in my site had been edited so many times that I deleted it a couple days ago and posted a new up to date one that even has a second page print out area to post in the shop if so desiired and it also includes the link to the video for easy reference. . That might be easier than searching through the utube site to find it.
I apologize for the very unprofessional look of the video seeing as it was the first one I ever made but if it has helped some out with their pen finishing then I am happy about that and it makes it all worthwhile. .

Thank you all for your kind words.
 

Kaspar

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The first piece I tried this on was a closed end piece that was shaped, not bushing to bushing. That may account for some of the little problems I had. I'm thinking a slightly thinner CA with additional coats will solve any problem this method might have with shaped pieces.

I've done some B2B pieces now, and I'm sold. This is the best way - in every way- I've seen to do it. It quickly puts a thick CA shell with a deep, mirror shine around the piece. I can hear how solid it is when I tap the finished piece on something hard.

Thanks again for sharing the WOY Finish with us.
 
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ironhorse

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Any chance you could post the tutorial here? You have to log on at the link you posted
 
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Thanks for the video. worked great and really made the grain POP!
 

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JBeck

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Thanks for the great video and the link to the tutorial. I was wandering what sanding sealer you usually use to seal woods with large pores prior to the BLO/CA finish?

I plan on giving this finishing method a try sometime tomorrow.

John
 

jkeithrussell

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I finally got a chance to try this last night. Didn't go very well for me. It might have been too cold in my garage -- seems that has been the case for about 3 months straight.

Anyway, when you apply the CA and work it from side to side, the pad eventually becomes hard and brittle. From the video, it looks like you are folding the applicator up to wrap around the blank just before it gets too brittle. When I tried to wrap the applicator around the blank, the blank just grabs it leaving paper towel stuck all over the blank. But if I leave the applicator on the blank too long, it hardens and scratches the blank.

I'll try again when/if it warms up.
 

jhudson1977

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I haven't seen the video yet but will look at it tonight. I've just recently begun to get into CA/BLO finishes and have not had much success. The best I've done so far is to have the BLO on a rag standing by, apply the CA glue, then switch over to BLO instantly. This is in an attempt to compensate for my lack of a variable speed lathe. My next variation to what I have seen is to apply the BLO first then the CA glue. I tried one last night that involved that but then apply the CA while the lathe was running with the bottle dropping in the junction between the rag and pen. That didn't go over so well........I'm still taking CA glue off my arms and face this morning.

From what I can gather from the posts here (I'm at work which is why I can't view the video), you are mixing the BLO and CA glue.......I've thought about this just haven't tried it yet. Makes sense though. I'll post my results.
 

rimo

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Thanks for the video William. I have been using a similar process with mixed results. I was not pinching the paper towel to help accelerate the curing of the CA. I tried your version last night and the results were fantastic.
 

W.Y.

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Thanks for the great video and the link to the tutorial. I was wandering what sanding sealer you usually use to seal woods with large pores prior to the BLO/CA finish?

I plan on giving this finishing method a try sometime tomorrow.

John

I don't use sanding sealer on pens. The first coat of BLO/CA seals the wood .
If I have large pores I wet sand to make a slurry at the start of the sanding with the coarsest grit. . That fills the pores and gives a smooth surface for the rest of the finer grits of sandpaper



I finally got a chance to try this last night. Didn't go very well for me. It might have been too cold in my garage -- seems that has been the case for about 3 months straight.

Anyway, when you apply the CA and work it from side to side, the pad eventually becomes hard and brittle. From the video, it looks like you are folding the applicator up to wrap around the blank just before it gets too brittle. When I tried to wrap the applicator around the blank, the blank just grabs it leaving paper towel stuck all over the blank. But if I leave the applicator on the blank too long, it hardens and scratches the blank.

I'll try again when/if it warms up.

Yes I agree it is probably too cold in your shop. Any kind of finishing should be done at normal room temperature. I have no idea how CA behaves in the cold. You might try another grade of paper towel but I still think the temperature is your problem. Thin CA could also grab a paper towel and that is why I use medium.

Something else to consider is the age of your CA. I had a real bad experience with getting some with an outdated shelf life from what was supposed to be a reputable dealer. I couldn't figure out what the heck was going on with it not applying properly . Someone told me to use fresh CA and sure enough that was the problem.
 

jhudson1977

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Hey William,

I wanted to just say thank you.

I have only recently started the BLO/CA technique and was getting some very depressing results. I just couldn't get the hang of it. Your technique however, worked wonders. I am far from perfecting it and I still need to do a little sanding to knock down some ridges but I think that it is because I'm not moving my hands fast enough. I'm running my lathe at 2000 RPM so that shouldn't be a problem.

I love this technique though. I am beginning to finish 300 pens with a BLO/CA finish and was getting worried that I wouldn't be able to do this. You saved me!

Thanks again.
 

Wood Tamer

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William,

1. Do you think I could use Danish Oil in place of BLO without issue and get similar results?
(I have a pint of it already that I used to pop the grain in bowls, plus it contains some BLO I believe)


2. I've only used wax and polish for finishing pens and they tend to dull over time. Does the CA/BLO method stay glossy over a long period of time?

3. Can the pens be laser engraved with the CA finish?

thanks, DG
 
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W.Y.

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1. Do you think I could use Danish Oil in place of BLO without issue and get similar results?
(I have a pint of it already that I used to pop the grain in bowls, plus it contains some BLO I believe)


2. I've only used wax and polish for finishing pens and they tend to dull over time. Does the CA/BLO method stay glossy over a long period of time?

3. Can the pens be laser engraved with the CA finish?

thanks, DG

(1) I don't know because I have never tried it. Watco oil is a mixture of BLO and mineral spirits and polyurethane and some driers as far as I know.
I don't know how that combination would work with the CA but if you try it, let us know how you make out.

(2) Wax and the various shellac based polishes are temporary . That is why they are called a polish rather than a finish and they will go dull like that with use . . I have never seen one of my BLO/CA finishes go dull in the last few years other than than what can be waxed and hand buffed to original finish.

(3) I have only made about 300 pens so far and I have never been asked to have one laser engraved. I would imagine if it can be done with any other finish it could be done on this one.
Here again, if you get one engraved on a trial basis before doing a bunch please let us know how it worked out.
 

W.Y.

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A Follow up for DG

You had asked

3. Can the pens be laser engraved with the CA finish?

thanks, DG

A member on my Woodworking Friends site tried the BLO/CA finish for the first time and posted a messge a couple hours ago. He has an order for 8 Wenge RT Euro Premium pens with engraving.
Not only does he love the finish but he posted a picture of the first two done with engraving as well as a logo on both pens so apparently there is no problem with engraving on that finish.
 

Kaspar

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... (3) I have only made about 300 pens so far and I have never been asked to have one laser engraved. I would imagine if it can be done with any other finish it could be done on this one.
Here again, if you get one engraved on a trial basis before doing a bunch please let us know how it worked out.

I've had a few pens with CA finishes done by Ken at Kallenshaan Woods. In my experience, it engraves just fine and color fills just fine too. Also, I have sealed a color fill on a CA finish with CA after getting it back. That works, too. It protects the color fill and brings it out a bit.
 

Wood Tamer

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William, thanks so much or the replies and your tutorials. I plan to try a pen with Watco Danish Oil/CA soon, I'll post how it goes. Looks like from the responses so far, your method is the way to go for ease of application and durability, plus no issues with engraving. DG
 

jyreene

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Can't wait to give this a shot. Would love to see a part two with the last 3 coats you do to see the difference. The lighting was pretty good for seeing the finish but I think seeing it off the lathe next to a non BLO/CA finish would show people how good this really is.
 

GouletPens

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Quite the opposite of WOY, I've sold nearly 500 pens and maybe 20 of them HAVEN'T been engraved. The engraver doesn't care what kind of finish you have on your pens. The only thing is, if the CA finish is REALLLLLLY thick, you might have to increase the strength of the laser just a bit, or hit it twice. But it engraves beautifully with a CA finish.

I saw WOY's video a few days ago, and tried it for myself. I've been using a thin CA technique that has worked well for me, but does require sanding. I wanted to eliminate the sanding as I turn for a living and time is money. But it just didn't work quite right. After many coats, it seemed like the finish was just too thin. I'm not giving up on this process though. I have plenty of BLO and I have plenty of CA, so I'll give it another whirl. I think my med. CA might be a little old (the thin stuff I use more often and have replaced recently). I'm going to revisit the WOY video and give it another whirl.
 

jhudson1977

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A member on my Woodworking Friends site tried the BLO/CA finish for the first time and posted a messge a couple hours ago. He has an order for 8 Wenge RT Euro Premium pens with engraving.
Not only does he love the finish but he posted a picture of the first two done with engraving as well as a logo on both pens so apparently there is no problem with engraving on that finish.

WOY, can you post a link to that picture?
 

W.Y.

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jhudson.

I have been having some serious computer problems in the past few days. It is going in for servicing again tomorrow but I was limping through some sites tonight and saw your message here. .

I won't post one of my members photos in another site without his approval and he is away on a short holiday .
The picture of two out of the 8 he has engraved is a very dark picture but it does show it engraved and a logo.

It is in the thread he started on the turning board in my Woodworking Friends site called

New order for 8 Wenge, RT Euro Premiums.



Registration is required in my site to keep out spammers and some "undesireables" .

If you would rather not add a new site to the ones you already frequent I will get permission to post his picture here when he gets back from his holiday.



W.Y.
 
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W.Y.

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Here is the pen made from the same blank that I showed in the video. I got into some other turnings of bowls and such so decided to put hardware on it as is.
I had taken it off the lathe after the original three applications of finish to show it in a better light .
I never did put it back on the lathe to apply more coats . Here it is with the same three coats of finish.
Although I usually apply 4 to six coats I feel quite certain that these three coats will stand up good and retain the original finish for a long . . . long . time.

WalnutBLOCA.jpg
 

Wood Tamer

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William, I tried the Watco Danish Oil & CA (thick) and it seemed to work well. I built up 3 coats on a scrap wood/practice curly maple pen blank and it looks decent. I only sanded to 600 and the first coat of oil raised the grain a bit. I didn't even re-sand it, just started layering the oil/ca/oil-ca etc. following your technique and the finish smoothed out after the 3rd coat and gloss was good, not glass like, but acceptable. So, I would say you could substitute Danish Oil for BLO without too many issues. I'll have to get some BLO and compare the two. Thanks again for you youtube posting and responses. DG - Wood Tamer
 

W.Y.

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Thanks for the follow up DG.
Don't be afraid to sand farther than 600 if you think it requires it. With some woods 600 might not be enough wheras with others it is enough.
I have never heard of BLO raising grain like you experienced with Watco Danish Oil .
In the tutorial I had started with a blank sanded to 600 but I had also put a sanding sealer on before sanding to 600 . I didn't want to bore anyone with the stages of sanding because the video was meant to show how I apply the finish rather than the steps of turning and sanding up to that point. I know some still sand up to 12000 MM before applying that finish and that is quite all right if a person is so inclined . I just don't find it necessary if grain filler is used on open grain wood and sanding sealer is sometimes required especially on some of the softer woods . You mentioned using thick CA. That is fine if it works best for you but I use medium after much experimenting .
It's nice to experiment with different things. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for others. Even variables in brand names of CA can make a difference so probably best to stick with one brand name of CA after getting a system down to your likeing.

I am off to the computer shop first thing in the morning to dump everything out of this old one into a new up to date one.

Might be a day or so before I am back on line but they claim they will have it ready to go later in the afternoon tomorrow.
If not , I will play catch up when I can. :wink:
 
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W.Y.

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I am on the new computer now and in the process of loading programs etc into it.
OH MY GOSH . . ., I can't believe how fast this one is compared to the old one. It is smaller in size and about half the weight of the old one but it sure is fast. Hope I can keep up with it . LOL.

I had to disconnect the wireless router for my wifes little laptop PC about nine months ago because it slowed my old computer down too much. Out of curiosity I hooked the router back up on this new one and it is full speed ahead on both computers so she is also a happy camper ..
 

RichB

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William I found your method of putting on BLO/CA on your forum and used it on a PR stabilized blank from Woodcraft. I have been using DJ's process on everything so I wanted to try yours. It went on great with a deep shine after 3 coats but I went to 6 coats. It looked great until I put on Ren. Wax then it lost it's deep shine and left a satin finish. I don"t know what happened can you help because I have another blank I want to do it on. I loved your Video and it was very simple to understand Thanks Rich What a pile of information! This is great guys and gals
 
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marcruby

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I spent some time recently trying this finish metho to see if it offered me any improvement over my old standard of no BLO, three or four coats of medium thick, and letting each coat set completely before sanding it a bit and putting on the next one. Then off to 12K.

The first think I noticed is that this new method generates a lot more fumes and tends to singe my finger. Those things can be overcome, however. What I really don't like is the thinness of the resultant coat. I wonder if many folks who have remarked on the finish going dull may be suffering from coats being absorbed back into the wood. Buffing what is now 'sealed' wood will create a gloss, but I have my doubts about durability.

I've remarked before that there are few finishes uglier than a worn CA finish. That's the main reason I use thick coats and am meticulous about making sure the glue has set ( I will wait 4 to 24 hours between coats.

So I guess that my overall assessment is that this finishing method is a lot faster than mine, but I'm going to have to see how well it wears over time before I make any further use of it.

Marc
 
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