homemade friction polish

[old folks]

Bonnie Klein uses Boiled Linseed oil, Shellac and alcohol as a homemade friction polish... what type of alcohol is used ? Thank you

 

[alamocdc]

John, it would probably be Denatured since that is what you use in Shellac. I haven't heard of any other being used in woodworking.

 

[DCBluesman]

Yes, it's denatured alcohol. Rubbing alcohol (like what you get at the drug store) has a lot of water in it.

 

[MDWine]

I wonder how durable it is? Shellac is still shellac, right?

 

[lkorn]

Mike, it has the same durability as the HUT FP, not much. Russ FAirfield aslo has a recipe for homemade Fp on his website. However even better is his recipe for a lacquer based FP. There are also commercial lacquer-based FP on the market. We used some at the Grizfest on both my corncob, and the bottle stoppers Griz made.

Originally posted by MDWine
<br />I wonder how durable it is? Shellac is still shellac, right?

 

[jckossoy]

Larry,
Do you have the link for the recipe?

Kol Tov,

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

DNA is the standard alcohol used, but, you can use moonshine if it's cheaper.[8D]

Shellac can be very durable if used properly. There are 300 year old violins still around that used shellac as a finish.

 

[DCBluesman]

Originally posted by jckossoy
<br />Larry,
Do you have the link for the recipe?

Kol Tov,

http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/finish10.shtml

 

[jckossoy]

Thanks

Kol Tov,

 

[wayneis]

Larry what is the name of that commercial FP? I'm starting to do a few small things that it would work on real good I think. If only Griz were here he would know too.

Thanks,

Wayne

 

[lkorn]

Wayne, I'll check when I get home and tell you tomorrow.

Originally posted by wayneis
<br />Larry what is the name of that commercial FP? I'm starting to do a few small things that it would work on real good I think. If only Griz were here he would know too.

Thanks,

Wayne

 

[vick]

http://woodenpost.com/products/liquid_friction_polishes_and_sealers.htm

Here is a link to a Lacquer based friction polish. I have never used it before though.

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Everything you wanted to know about friction polishes but where afraid to ask

http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/finish10.shtml

 

[GregD]

Here is a "Home Brew" That I have been using. I copied from this site when I first joined. I've also been using more shellac than it calls for. It seems to work better.

"Home Brew"

1 unit Shellac (3)
1 unit Denatured Alcohol
1 unit Boiled Linseed Oil
2 units Mineral Spirits

When I use "unit" I mean, unit of measure (tbs, pint, quart, etc.) and I often just use a coffee scoop as my measuring cup, so it would be 1 scoop shellac, 1 scoop alcohol, 1 scoop BLO, 2 scoops mineral spirits.

I dampen a cotton cloth with the solution and hold it against the barrels still mounted on the mandrel and spinning with the lathe set to High Speed and hold it on there until the cloth is dry. This leaves a real nice glossy finish

 

[alamocdc]

The lacquer based FP that I've seen Tom (OldGriz) recommend is Turner's Magic. Here's the link: http://www.woodwriteltd.com/turnmagi.htm

 

[lkorn]

Wayne,

This is the stuff, tis a good thing Billy posted the link, because I got busy with other things last night and forgot about checking it out.

Originally posted by alamocdc
<br />The lacquer based FP that I've seen Tom (OldGriz) recommend is Turner's Magic. Here's the link: http://www.woodwriteltd.com/turnmagi.htm

 

[wayneis]

Thank you Billy and Larry, now all we need is the ole Griz man himself.

Wayne

 

[GregD]

All this talk about friction polish got me motivated enough to go buy some lacquer and lacquer thinner. I mixed 1TSP lacquer, 1TSP thinner, and 1TSP Blo. It gave the same great results as shellac but should be a lot tougher than the shellac.

 

[Thumbs]

GregD, when you made your lacquer based FP you said you used more than the recipe called for. There is a #3 behind the shellac on your "recipe" line. Is that the multiplier you used?

And how about giving us some feedback on your lacquer based FP as to durability and shine after you test it for a bit. I love my "Mylands" but it's also awful expensive. This sounds like a possibly great alternative! Thanks!

 

[GregD]

Originally posted by Thumbs
<br />GregD, when you made your lacquer based FP you said you used more than the recipe called for. There is a #3 behind the shellac on your "recipe" line. Is that the multiplier you used?

And how about giving us some feedback on your lacquer based FP as to durability and shine after you test it for a bit. I love my "Mylands" but it's also awful expensive. This sounds like a possibly great alternative! Thanks!

Bob,
Yes, the 3 is the multiplier for the shellac. You may want to play with it. This is just what I found works for me.

Yes, I will report on the durability and shine of the laquer FP.

 

[Thumbs]

Thanks, Greg! We'll be waiting![]

 

[Fred in NC]

Shellac is flakes dissolved in DNA. The usual way to describe it is in "pound cuts."

A pound cut means one lb of shellac flakes in a gallon of DNA, 3 pound cut means 3 lbs of shellac in a gallon of DNA, etc.

 

[GregD]

Sorry, I should have made this clear. I used 3 TPS of 3# cut shellac.

 

[jwoodwright]

The only downside is shellac has a short useable lifespan. I worked in a cabinet shop one summer and shellac was made up fresh, as needed.

 

[melogic]

Thanks Greg for all of this wonderful info. I just turned a cushion grip pen out of Dyamond wood and used this brew just a you stated and I can't beleive the acrylic-like finish it gave me. My wife is hooked on this and she is ready to turn more pens just to finish them. I did put a top coat of TSW just to get the slick finish and protection. As soon as I can get a good photo to show off the shine I will post it here. Thanks again!

 

[GregD]

That's good Mark. I'm glad I could help someone. I've got to get some TSW. I haven't tried it yet. Too many other things need my money.

 

[MDWine]

GregD!! I'm intrigued with the 1 part lacquer/ 1 part thinner/ 1 part BLO mixture. Did you apply this just like a friction polish? Lathe running? Did you need to sand/MM/buff afterward?

I think I'd like to try this one. Would you like to give us a few more details about how you applied it and how it finished? (I, for one, would really appreciate it!)

TIA!

 

[GregD]

Mike,
Yes, I applied it just as I would friction polish with the lathe on. I'm not really happy with the finish. I thought it would have more gloss.I'm still working on it. I guess the next step is MM or buffing.

 

[Thumbs]

Mark, Which mix did you use? The shellac base or the lacquer base?

 

[Thumbs]

OK, now I'm gonna reveal how ignorant I really am! What happens when you mix a lacquer base finish with a shellac based finish? Does it turn to crud? Never dry? Explode and burn? Anybody admit to ever trying this?[?]

Stop Laughin'! Just tell me!

 

[GregD]

Originally posted by Thumbs
<br />OK, now I'm gonna reveal how ignorant I really am! What happens when you mix a lacquer base finish with a shellac based finish? Does it turn to crud? Never dry? Explode and burn? Anybody admit to ever trying this?[?]

Stop Laughin'! Just tell me!

It pretty much turns to crud, as you put it.

 

[Thumbs]

Thanks, Greg! I guess I was just hoping for the best of both and got the worst of both instead! Like usual![V]

 

[melogic]

Bob I used the shellac based finish just as stated in Greg's earlier post. I put 3 scoops of shellac, 1 scoop of BLO, 1 scoop of Denatured Alcohol and 2 scoops of Mineral Spirits. The Finish is the highest gloss I've ever had on a pen and it looks like I glazed the wood with clear plastic or something. I applied it by just touching the corner of a cotton cloth in the mixture and holding it on the pen as it was turning on my lathe until the cloth was dry. Then I used a clean part of the cloth to buff the blank and then I applied a coat of TSW. My wife and daughter turned about 5 or 6 more pens this evening and they look fantastic. As soon as I can get a picture to show the gloss I will post it here.

 

[melogic]

Here is a picture of the cushion grip pen I turned and finished with the shellac brew.

<br />

 

[Thumbs]

Thanks, Mark! I've used Crystal Coat, Shellawax, and Mylands Shellac based FP's. The Mylands seems far superior to the others so the proper mix is apparently the important part. If you look at the way the solutions separate after standing for awhile, it is quite apparent that the solutions contain differing quantities of the various substances. I just don't know which is which![]

 

[Thumbs]

That was fast![:0]

<b>Mark</b>, I know this may sound silly but could you also post a picture of your solution in a bottle so I could see how it separates proportionally? I know, just a big PIA! <b>BTW</b>, that looks very similar to a Mylands finish![]


Another <b>BTW</b>: With Mylands it still seems to work best if you let "cure" a couple days before you handle the pens very much........ FWIW

 

[Old Griz]

Originally posted by melogic
<br />Bob I used the shellac based finish just as stated in Greg's earlier post. I put 3 scoops of shellac, 1 scoop of BLO, 1 scoop of Denatured Alcohol and 2 scoops of Mineral Spirits. The Finish is the highest gloss I've ever had on a pen and it looks like I glazed the wood with clear plastic or something. I applied it by just touching the corner of a cotton cloth in the mixture and holding it on the pen as it was turning on my lathe until the cloth was dry. Then I used a clean part of the cloth to buff the blank and then I applied a coat of TSW. My wife and daughter turned about 5 or 6 more pens this evening and they look fantastic. As soon as I can get a picture to show the gloss I will post it here.

The finish on the pen looks great... my question is how does it hold up... shellac finishes are not known for durability...
Have you done a pen with that finish and used it for a long while to test the durability...
I am not trying to be a Wise Guy, we all know that the finish will sell a pen... but the durability will keep the customer happy and make him refer others back to you..

 

[Fred in NC]

Tom, I have the same concerns about shellac. I use it only as a sanding sealer.

However, if the wood is highly polished before the shellac based friction polish is applied, it will get a natural finish or patina. See Russ Fairfield's comments on this.

 

[alamocdc]

Greg, I've been using the same "lacquer" based FP you made up and have experienced a rather wide variety of finishes with it. I always use a lacquer sanding sealer in the sanding process and MM to polish the barrels prior to applying the FP. Sometimes I get a rather satiny finish, sometimes a get a semi-gloss and sometimes I get a high gloss, but I have yet to achieve the kind of high gloss I get with Mylands. I don't know if the type of wood makes the difference, or if it may be the number of coats applied and the time between them. I'm still experimenting with that right now, but it apprears that at least 3 coats with about 30 minutes (15 minimum) between them yields the best result for me. As for durability, the jury is still out, but it appears that this will be considerably more durable than my other FPs. Provided it is allowed to cure properly.

 

[melogic]

I was wondering the same thing that Tom is saying, "How long will it last?" I would have thought shellac would last a long time, but I don't know a lot about the durability of the finishes.