Fine sanding and finishes

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RussFairfield

Passed Away 2011
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My two previous posts have outlined most of my philosphy for finishing wood. This last one will tie a couple loose ends together.

There are two (2) things that I have heard most often in my 50 years of finishing wood. The first were the compliments for the smoothness, brightness, clarity, and grain figuring in my finishes; and the depth of the gloss where it was appropriate.

The second was an admonition, often by the same people who just gave me that compliment, that I am wasting my time by sanding to anything past 220-grit because all I am doing is burnishing the wood and making it so smooth that a finish will not adhere to it.

My first post a few days ago mentions that I have spent these years discovering that most of the "conventional wisdom" is wrong. Nowhere has this been more true than the effect of fine sanding on the surface of a piece of wood.

The only reason that I have ever found for stopping at the 180 or 220 grits is when using a pigmented stain. The large stain particles need a place to lodge in the surface of the wood, and the coarse sanding scratches provided those places.

I have never had a problem with lacquer, oil, varnishes, or shellac sticking to a surface that has been sanded to 1000 grit or higher. If the finish didn't stick, it was because of contaminates or something other than the surface being too smooth. Analine and natural dyes work very well on the finer wood surface. The benefit is that the differential penetration between end and flat grain is more pronounced, and that accents the grain pattern. Fine sanding can bring out a pattern of colors in a piece of wood that would remain invisible on a coarser surface. Nothing accents the grain pattern and the chatoyance in a piece of burl like sanding to fine grits before applying the finish.

Along the way I discovered a couple other benefits from sanding to the finer grits. A higher gloss can be obtained with fewer coats of the finish, and that can be a good thing for lacquer and shellac.

Another benefit is the burnishing that takes place at the higher grits. Burnishing is the compaction of the wood surface, and that means a harder surface. The harder wood surface UNDER the finish film makes that film a more durable one. And, I have never had a finish come off because the wood was too smooth.

The "conventional wisdom" is that fine sanding is doing nothing other than burnishing the wood. While it is burnishing the wood, it is aslo refining the scratch pattern, and that improves the brightness of the surface. I know that I am removing wood when I can see dust in the air from a piece of 2000 grit used dry, or a slurry on the paper when using it wet.

That's my story, and as long as my finishes on both furniture and turned wood keep getting the compliments, I am not changing anything.

Don't expect any replies or messages for the next couple months. We are leaving Tuesday morning for an extended trip through the Carolinas, Georgia and Florida, and will not be home again umtil sometime in early June. See you then.
 
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pen-turners

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Russ,
I totally agree with you. Many people who watch me turn look at me like I have horns growing out of the top of my head when I sand all the way through the grits up to 1500. I have tried stopping at the lower grits but the finish just does not satisfy me. I am a great believer in sanding with higher grits and the results that are achieved.
 

Fleabit

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A lot of people are now coming forward and disputing those same ideals. Finer sanding makes better product. I myself have always sanded past 220. 220 in my opinion is just the beginning of the final finish (grits to that point are just shaping). Thanks for the info. It was great!
 

Rifleman1776

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Mountain Home, Arkansas, USA.
My current sanding practice is to start with 220 grit, then 320 then the white pad that looks like scotchbrite. (depending on who is selling it, they claim it is anywhere from 800 to 1200 grit). Up to now I have been happy with the results. I may be getting fussier than early on. Lately, I have noticed with finished pens, if held to the light just right, there are scratch rings going around the wood. I suspect that the 220 is making those scratch rings too coarse and deep for the next grades to remove completely. I cannot see them with raw wood. I have tried on a couple sanding lengthwise (with the grain) while not turning but that didn't remove the scratches. My next pen (on mandrel now waiting for me) will be a cocobolo Baron. I'm going to skip the 220 and go directly to 320. We'll see what happens.
 

DCBluesman

Passed Away Mar 3, 2016
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Here's a tip for those of you who are <b>not</b> yet satisfied with your finished pens. Experiened craftsmen who already produce a finish they are happy with will find this post boring and of little value.

Sandpaper routinely comes in ten grits up to 400 (some companies have more, some have less). The normal "hardware store" grits are 60 (most abrasive), 80, 100, 120, 150, 180, 220, 280, 320 and 400 (least abrasive). There are numerous additional grits beyond 400, but I typically switch to either Micro-mesh or Abralon pads beyond 400. The process is the same for these higher grits, but there is a point of diminishing returns as you move to the very highest grits.

Depending on your proficiency at using turning tools, you may be able to start the sanding process at a medium grit--for the most part 120 to 220, although some turners I've seen produce amazing smooth results and start their sanding at 320 or even 400.

Regardless of where you start, the simplest and quickest way to get a good sanding job is to work through each grit, sanding with the lathe on to get a good, even sanding and then sanding the length of the pen with the lathe off. The first sanding evens out any inmperfections in shaping and removes any stray tool marks. The second sanding evens out imperfections that run lengthwise and eliminates the circular marks left behind by sanding with the lathe on.

After the first sanding, it is important to sand through each of the grits, both around the circumference (typically with the lathe running) and along the length (with the lathe off). Sanding in both directions gives you the best opportunity to remove scratches and marks that run in each direction. (It's important to remember that sanding is simply exchanging small scratches for large scratches. In the case of finishing, small scratches are better.)

Using each grit in succession means that you are allowing the grit to determine the finish rather than the time you spend at each grit. Less time at each grit means less heat, which is a good thing! Think of each sanding grit as a specialized tool and you will find that by using each in succession, your sanding time is <b>decreased</b>! Couple the decrease in time you spend sanding with the better results and you will see why many turners go the extra distance and sand to Micro-Mesh 12000 or its equivalent. It doesn't add much time to the process and the result is amazingly better.

Most finishes add a gloss to the wood. This gloss <b>magnifies</b> any imperfections in your sanding. Get a 2X magnifying glass and use it to examine your pen as you move through the sanding process. What you see through the glass is a close resemblance of what you will see after applying a finish. If there are remaining imperfections, correct them before continuing to the next grit and before applying your finish.

Finally, keep your sandpaper fresh. Worn-out 220 grit paper is not a substitute for 320.
 
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"keep your sandpaper fresh. Worn-out 220 grit paper is not a substitute for 320."

Boy Lou you got that right. It is the hardest thing I have had to learn. Throw the darn piece of paper away and get a fresh piece. I grew up rather poor, developed a habit of squeezing the last little use of anything and then keeping it until you could find another use for it.

I find my self going through the pieces of sand paper on my workbench looking for ones that have a square inch of unused surface. The time I spend doing that costs more than tossing it all and grabbing a new piece. Once I pick that used piece up I want to make it work. It won't. At some point it dawns on me that I am asking more than the product is made to deliver and the light bulb comes on. Then I chuckle and grab a new piece of paper.
 

lkorn

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Jan 12, 2005
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I've found that by sanding through MM12000 in both directions, my pens start to develop a shine BEFORE any finish is applied.
The finishing just deepens the shine.

Larry
 

JimGo

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I agree Larry. I find that somewhere around 4000 on the MM scale, my pens start to take on a sheen that just isn't QUITE there before I hit that point. From 4000 to 12000, they really start to sparkle. This is especially true of the oily woods, and the ones where I've used CA as a sanding sealer. I assume on the later, I'm polishing the CA.

I'm anxious to try some more "advanced" techniques, including Russ's suggestion above. I call them "advanced" because they involve one thing my wife says I'm a little short on...patience! Hopefully it will be worth it!
 
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