Experience with odorless CA?

[Warren White]

Because of a reaction with my 2P-10 CA, I am considering odorless CA; specifically the Bob Smith Industries Super Gold and Super Gold +.

Before I drop the money on it, I am wondering if there is anyone that can answer the following questions about it:
1. Do it finish like 'regular' CA?
2. Does the finish seems as (for lack of a better word) sturdy as 'regular' CA?
3. Can you use any accelerator on it? I use NCF Quick.
4. Is the viscosity of Super Gold like 2P-10 thin, and the viscosity of Super Gold+ like 2P-10 Medium?

I asked the folks at Bob Smith Industries, but they were kind of vague.

Thanks a lot!

 

[edstreet]

Because of a reaction with my 2P-10 CA, I am considering odorless CA; specifically the Bob Smith Industries Super Gold and Super Gold +.

Before I drop the money on it, I am wondering if there is anyone that can answer the following questions about it:
1. Do it finish like 'regular' CA?
2. Does the finish seems as (for lack of a better word) sturdy as 'regular' CA?
3. Can you use any accelerator on it? I use NCF Quick.
4. Is the viscosity of Super Gold like 2P-10 thin, and the viscosity of Super Gold+ like 2P-10 Medium?

I asked the folks at Bob Smith Industries, but they were kind of vague.

Thanks a lot!

Yes, I have been using it close to 10 years now. If you look on the BSI site you will find Toni's Dragon scale blanks that I have finished with it.

1) it finishes BETTER than 'regular' CA. Regular meaning ECA based CA. There are a good 8 or so types of chemicals that can be listed as 'CA' and each of them are greatly different than the others and therefore you can and should adapt your finishing techniques, methods and procedures based on what you are using for the most optimal results.

2) Sturdy yes, there is also a flex factor to the BSI super-gold series. There is no need nor reason to add BLO to the mix as the effect is already in the mix. It has a super deep holographic effect right out of the bottle.

3) Yes you can use accelerator with it and with very good results. In fact since it polymerizes slower than ECA based CA then you *SHOULD* use accelerator with it. However, I warn everyone to stay away from acetone based accelerators due to the exothermic reaction associated with it. Not only does it cause extreme rapid heat it leads to the finish being brittle, prone to chipping, cracking and lamination.

4) The white cap is thin, the black cap is medium.


I wrote a good detailed article on Toni's site detailing CA and what benefits can be had with it.

https://www.claypenblanks.com/what-is-polymer-clay/ca-finishing-101.html

 

[Warren White]

Thanks, Ed!

That is EXACTLY the sort of input I was hoping for!

Any other experiences?

 

[edstreet]

Like what

 

[Warren White]

Thanks Ed...

...I hope you didn't feel I didn't appreciate your input, because I certainly did. As I indicated, it was right on target. Based upon what I read, I will order some tomorrow.

I just wondered if there were others in the community that might offer their experience with it. It has been my experience with finishing topics that there are as many opinions as there are finishers. +1!

 

[edstreet]

I know. I was wondering mostly what other info you were wanting or needing. CA is a very tricky subject because many approach it with the coat method that stick fast has started years ago. That method may work fine for finicky and problematic brands like stick fast but it's not needed with others.

Also there can sometime be a learning curve for you to get use to the changes in the CA. Also look up dragon scale gent conversion. It's a big article I wrote for here on IAP. It details odorless CA and what you can do with it.

 

[Warren White]

Ed...

...I read the referenced article, and the end result speaks for itself! Very nice. 9,000 coats!

CA is my go-to finish for pens. I know that others don't like the 'plastic' look and feel, but it is the only way I finish. My procedure is 3 coats of thin, 6 coats of medium applied to the entire pen, 3 coats of medium on just the ends; 3 coats of thin. Just a tiny spritz of accelerator after each coat and I don't apply any more until I can feel it is completely dry.

When I first started, I used StickFast, but was unhappy with the results, so I went with 2P-10.

Thanks again, Ed.

 

[leehljp]

Ed, I want to thank you also for your detailed explanations. It was/is very helpful to me.

Thanks again!

 

[chrisk]

For 2 years now I use Starbond products. Their odorless "N/O-05" is a 5 CPS thin CA. I use it for filling the grain right after sanding with 180 grit (I sand all of my pen blanks up to 400grit). I've used another odorless CA in the past but not as effective as this one. Having catched a sensitivity to CA a few years ago, I don't need any mask or anything else with this Starbond product. The other advantage of this CA thin glue is that it is quite forgiving, not sticking at once with a lot of layers one has to sand endlessly to clean the filled blank. Also, the Starbond accelerator doesn't turn white.

Having read the very informative Ed's article, I went recently for another odorless medium CA from Mercury adhesives. No budget for the BSI ones at this time but I'll soon give them a try.

 

[edstreet]

The most common commercially available odorless CA is 2-Ethoxyethyl 2-Cyanoacrylate. It's hydrophilic and a typical bottle of CA contents contains Hydroquinone which is the acid that keeps CA in its liquid form. The surface insensitive label is often higher dosage levels which means more activator agents needed to start the chain reaction known as polymerization. Also helps greatly with ambient moisture levels, surface ingredients that cause polymerization and the like. READ with higher levels you can use these CA products in environments that regular CA would fail or be prone to problems.

The other ingredient is called Tritolyl phosphate. That is a plasticizer which gives plastics their flexibility properties. Without it these plastics would be hard brittle and prone to a diverse range of problems. This flex factor gives products like BSI and the mercury their appeal in pen finishes. Having flex is a good thing. I spoke of it in my article.

As I have stated numerous times. Not all CA is the same and to treat them all the same is an artistic tragedy. This also expands to applications as well as future stresses imposed on the finished products. By allowing flexible finishes we can eliminate a good number of problems entirely. However, this being said not all cases will warrant or need flexibility. I.e. Segmented blanks or two plus non-flexible surfaces.

 

[jsolie]

I've been using the BSI Supergold and Supergold + for about a year and a half now. Previously, I was using the stickfast brands. The BSI flows differently and it took a pen or two to adapt. I've been very happy with the results.

Ed, thanks for the link to the CA finishing. I was wondering which of the accelerators would be kosher to use with Supergold & Supergold+.

 

[edstreet]

The BSI brand accelerator is repackaged relabeled for other companies. There are two / three good ingredients to look for. Acetone is not one of them.

 

[zener]

edstreet, it looks like BSI have two types of accelerator, one is an aerosol can and the other is a pump spray bottle. Is the pump spray bottle ok for finishing? I'm thinking in terms of the fine-ness of the spray mist. It's the only one I can get my hands on.

I've just about had it with CA finishes after having a whole bunch of failures, I'm trying accelerator and if that doesn't work then I give up lol

 

[edstreet]

Both are the same ingredient. The spray bottle has to be shipped ground only.

 

[zener]

Cool, I'll get whichever one I can and give it a shot. Thank you!

 

[ladycop322]

Mercury CA

 

[zener]

I ordered BSI accelerator but was sent Zap accelerator consisting of "Isopropyl Alcohol and N,N-Dimethyl-p-Toludine". You said Naptha and Heptane are good, I have no idea what Isopropyl Alcohol and N,N-Dimethyl-p-Toludine are xD Will this kill my finishes?

 

[edstreet]

Not familiar with it in sure many have used it before. From the screenshots here it's not good stuff.

Note the skin contact and hardener for epoxy.

 

[zener]

Hmm, doesn't sound too great. Looks like I might have to try something else. Thanks for all the help edstreet!

 

[Warren White]

Just finished my first pen with odorless CA

I used my 'normal' procedure for applying the finish, but used Bob Smith Industries Super Gold and Super Gold + CA instead of 2P-10 thin and medium.

John indicated in his response that it flows differently from other CA glues. I experienced a difference with just the thin CA. I was able to adjust my application method right away and it was just fine.

My 'normal' procedure includes using two or three microbursts of accelerator after each coat, then feeling the blank to make sure it is dry before applying the next coat of CA. I use NCF Quick aerosol accelerator and it worked just fine.

I am satisfied that this is a good alternative for me. I had an allergic reaction to the 2P-10 when I went into production mode and was doing a number of pens at the same time.