Enduro WB Poly Report from Oak Ridge

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

I am new to this pen making. I, so far have made about 50 pens. I have sold a half dozen and given away another dozen.

The finish on my pens has been a great interest to me and I have explored a few different options. I first tried a Milans product recommended by a guy at the local Woodcraft store. I took a pen with that finish on it to a processing plant and wet hands soon had the finish off of the end where I held the pen. That was not satisfactory to me for a pen that I wanted to sell.

I read a post on our web site about lacquer. I bought a can of Deft brushing lacquer, thinned it 50% with thinner. Put it in a wide mouth bottle. One of the members here posted his method of application that involved putting each pen half on a wire, dipping in the lacquer and spinning it around like an airplane propeller to sling the excess finish off. Two dips about 15 min. apart works well and gives a nice finish without a lot of fussing around. You can get the pen halves off your arbor and get on with the next pen. You don't tie up the arbor or your time waiting for the finish to dry. I tried it and it works well for me.

Then I started reading about the Enduro Water Base Poly. I bought a sample kit of a quart of high gloss poly and a quart of their sanding sealer to match. Attached to this you see the result, the first four pens I finished with that product.

Here is my method and it still needs a little more refinement on my behalf but it works and gives an outstanding finish.

I thinned some of the poly 80/20% Poly/Water. No fancy measuring, just eyeballed it on the wide mouth container I put it in. I turn and sand the blank to finish. I take a small dab of the sealer on a piece of kitchen roll towel and wipe it on the blank, lathe not running. Just turn the blank over by hand and quickly back and fourth with the paper towel and sealer. Then I turn the lathe on and quickly move the towel from one end of the blank to the other, don't dwell in one place. By the time I stop the lathe, move the tailstock back, unscrew the nut on the end of the arbor the blank is dry enough to gently handle. I don't "grab" the blanks, just gingerly remove them from the arbor and put them on a dowel pin on a board. My porcupine, a board with 20 1/4" dowels, pointed on the end, about 5" long. I finish turning all the pen blanks.

Then I take a piece of iron wire with a loop on one end. Kind of like an eye about 1/2" in diameter. The wire is about 8" long. I put one half of a pen on one wire, bend a 90° angle on one end so the leg is about 2" long. I do this to all the pen halves and hang them on a wood stick that I put from my table saw to my jointer.

I open the jar of thinned poly and dip one piece in the poly. Just in and out. I have some paper on the shop floor under where all this is going on so I don't get a build up of finish on the floor. I spin the wire around, perhaps 15-20 seconds as fast as I can get it going. Yes, one or two has gotten away from me. When that happens I just go get it, wipe it off and dip it again and spin.

I hang the dipped and spun piece on the wood stick and pick up the next one and so on. This product has a recommended re coat time of 20-30 min. depending on the humidity and temperature. After about 10 min. has passed I go back and spin each piece again not more than about 10 seconds. As the material sits some still runs down the blank and forms a small ring or droplet on the lower end of the blank. The second spin flings that off.

I do the above twice. Two coats of finish. The blanks hang till the next day. I went to a NAPA Auto Parts store and got a bottle of Meguires Swirl Remover. This is a very fine abrasive liquid used by auto paint shops to remove polish marks from paint finishes. The other Meguires products all insisted that they were to be used with power buffing equipment, the Swirl Remover was the only one that said it could be hand applied. I put a small dab, about the size of my Wife's Granny's butter beans, on a kitchen roll towel and polish each part of the pen. Takes about 20-30 seconds per pen half. Wipes right off, no residue left behind. Makes for a nice polish. Could spend longer with this step but didn't see it necessary. I wipe the blank clean with another paper towel and assemble the pen.

After the pen is fully assembled I take some Renn wax on a bare finger and wipe down the pen. Let that sit a few seconds as I do another pen and then wipe and polish with another kitchen roll towel. An that is it.

Quick, no foul solvents, no smells and what I consider a very acceptable finish.

Anyone have any suggestions to improve the finish I am still in the learning phase, please jump in.
Mac In Oak Ridge

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[woodwish]

Look great, and sounds like an easier way to get a good finish than some other methods. Just curious, when you spin them around some of the finish must fly off. Where does it all go? Do you have little specks of finish on the ceiling, walls, and floor? That is the only part that seems to need a better answer, maybe get a large box and spin in it? Any other input?

Ray

 

[dw]

Mac,

I'm curious, though. Don't the instructions on the back of the can say <b>not</b> to thin with water? Maybe I'm just too literal-minded.

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

Ray,
I haven't tracked down where the excess stuff is going, except putting some paper on the floor under where I am working for the big drips when the blank first comes out of the jar of finish. A big box might be a good idea as long as you don't whack the side of the box when spinning and mess up the finish. Eight feet in one direction is a mobile plywood storage rack and 10 ft in the other direction is a stairway to the second floor of my shop. I haven't worried to much about it but if I see it as a problem, I'll give your box idea a shot. I have even been thinking about making some kind of turntable out of say a 12" plywood disk, a bunch of pins to hook the wires to around the outer edge, and a small motor w/belt and sheaves to spin them mechanically till the finish dries. You could dip a dozen or so at a time and hang them on the disk, fire that sucker off and let it go for 20 min or so. Just have to make sure the finish wasn't still tender when you turn it off and it coasts to a stop.

DWFII,
I am at work right now and don't have the can handy. I corresponded with a person at Compliant Spray Systems. One of the questions I asked was about thinning the product. Can't tell you the exact answer but it amounted to that it was up to me if I wanted to do that. Possible that the instructions on the can and in the literature are meant to give the user the information that for spraying it is thin enough.

 

[dw]

Mac,

That's the trouble with dealing directly with the manufacturer--although you would think it would be a benefit. I called Compliant Systems today to ask about thinning and I got a young fellow who seemed to know about the Enduro poly...until I asked specifically about thinning with water. At which point, he said "Never do it!" And then "Well you can thin it with water, of course, but we recommend not." And I said "What's the downside?" At which point he put me on hold and went off to consult with..presumably the head chemist, or some such. When he came back he said that thinning the product with water would weaken the bond between the wood and the lacquer and the lacquer and successive coats. And he further predicted dire consequences for those who do thin it.

Who knows? But I'v got to admit to being a little leary of thinning after that.

 

[DCBluesman]

As with all products that have a finish agent and a bonding agent, the balance is important. By thinning the product you will run the very real risk of spreading the bonding agents too thinly across your project. It shouldn't have a great deal of effect on the appearance, but I suspect that the durability will be compromised at some point...maybe not at 80/20. My real question here is are the cost savings worth the risk? Or are their significant hidden savings? [8D]

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

The object of the thinning is to make the material less thick when you dip something into it. If you don't thin it and dip a pen blank, sling off what you can and then let it hang you get a heavy layer of material that slides down the blank to the bottom like Granny's old stockings around her ankles. This stuff is much thicker than the other finishes.

I tried it out of the can (no thinning), again with a 90/10% thinning and then with a 80/20%. I was most pleased with the result of the application at 80/20% mix. In fact I am slightly tempted to try a 70/30% mix and may in the future.

This material is made to finish bar tops. I don't think what ever bonding may be lost by adding a little bit of water will effect the bonding on a pen sufficiently to cause any kind of issue. I may be wrong and time will tell. Meanwhile I am quite satisfied with the result I got and intend to proceed with a few more tiny refinements as the days go by. I will be happy to report if the finish on the pens has any sign of failure in the future.

 

[DCBluesman]

Little did we know when we decided to "make a couple of pens" that we would all become part-time chemists, artists, marketeers and the like. I, for one, appreciate the experimenting that goes on. If not for the experimentation, we'd still be making straight walnut pens with shellac finishes. I can't wait to hear the results of ALL of the experiments folks try here. And you know what? If the bonding is lessened, who cares whether or not the pen lasts for 20 years? Most if not all of em will be lost long before then. [] Good luck, Mac! [8D]