CA BLO toxic after cured?

affyx · 08-11-2010, 03:28 PM

i know CA is toxic when using it, but... my worry is this - if someone chews on one of my pens finished with CA-BLO will they get sick? assuming it's fully cured, it's essentially a hard plastic finish right?

JC

BigguyZ · 08-11-2010, 04:12 PM

AFAIK..... all finishes are safe (enough) after fully cured. The nasty stuff is the solvent, and that's gone once it's fully cured.

I wouldn't make a habit of eating cured finish, but I also wouldn't call the medics either.

atomic ray · 08-11-2010, 04:40 PM

Most Ca is 100% ethyl cyanoacrylate and the cured CA is waterproof but not solvent proof. Acetone and other industrial solvents will soften the cure of CA, breaking at least in part the stable nature of the CA.

When I was working with a series of sculptures in the late 1990's I was going through 6+ fl oz every day and I had started feeling dizzy...the Doctor said it was not the CA and that the worrisome element of CA being in the cyanide family was only an issue if the CA became vaporized, and then only to a small portion of the population 3-10% with flu like symptoms...CA vapors are absorbed upon contact with the wet surfaces of the nose, mouth, and throat becoming inert and eventually passed, voided, or sloughed. If a case of CA absorption in high amounts, like what I was dealing with, then if the person is not sensitive to CA it becomes a matter of body weight, health, etc.. Again the cyanide is a trace element in the case of CA so direct cyanide poisoning is not so much the issue...we build up and pass cyanide if in trace amounts.

I used some 2-octyl cyanoacrylate 2OCA (we called it Orca :) but it was not any better or easier and was not as available.

I do not have your answer unfortunately...those people who chew on their pens take risks to be sure but those that are also actively smoking, drinking alcohol, or that are chewing high levels of chemicals like Nicorete or the like take even more of a risk as these can act as solvent sources.

So I do not have a better answer than cured CA is considered safe by the US and European health/toxicology safety programs. This is considering normal function and use of the given product...if this use defies the MSDS then it is what it is...CA MSDS (example) http://www.sirchie.com/Assets/msds/cna102.pdf most note contact of ingestion as "Ingestion: Ingestion is not likely. See supplemental page." which is usually not supplied

So I think worst case is a loss of gloss as the mouth acid breaks the cured/polished shell.

Great question though

Raymond

affyx · 08-11-2010, 07:57 PM

awesome! thank you so much for the answers!

sbwertz · 08-11-2010, 10:51 PM

Since they use CA to glue surgical incisions I would think it would not be harmful. When my husband had a triple bypass they glued him all back together! They split his sternum and glued it back together, and glued the incision. He didn't have any stitches at all. It was all CA.

atomic ray · 08-12-2010, 12:33 PM

That is true about the medical use, but that is a different formula...usually 2-octyl cyanoacrylate...but yes indeed is becomes inert once it cures.

The main issue is breaking the cure with solvents.

Again an interesting subject

08-11-2010, 03:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
affyx Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Hampden Twp, PA Posts: 14 Photos: 0	CA BLO toxic after cured? i know CA is toxic when using it, but... my worry is this - if someone chews on one of my pens finished with CA-BLO will they get sick? assuming it's fully cured, it's essentially a hard plastic finish right? JC

08-11-2010, 04:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
atomic ray Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Corpus Christi Texas Posts: 83 Photos: 0	Most Ca is 100% ethyl cyanoacrylate and the cured CA is waterproof but not solvent proof. Acetone and other industrial solvents will soften the cure of CA, breaking at least in part the stable nature of the CA. When I was working with a series of sculptures in the late 1990's I was going through 6+ fl oz every day and I had started feeling dizzy...the Doctor said it was not the CA and that the worrisome element of CA being in the cyanide family was only an issue if the CA became vaporized, and then only to a small portion of the population 3-10% with flu like symptoms...CA vapors are absorbed upon contact with the wet surfaces of the nose, mouth, and throat becoming inert and eventually passed, voided, or sloughed. If a case of CA absorption in high amounts, like what I was dealing with, then if the person is not sensitive to CA it becomes a matter of body weight, health, etc.. Again the cyanide is a trace element in the case of CA so direct cyanide poisoning is not so much the issue...we build up and pass cyanide if in trace amounts. I used some 2-octyl cyanoacrylate 2OCA (we called it Orca :) but it was not any better or easier and was not as available. I do not have your answer unfortunately...those people who chew on their pens take risks to be sure but those that are also actively smoking, drinking alcohol, or that are chewing high levels of chemicals like Nicorete or the like take even more of a risk as these can act as solvent sources. So I do not have a better answer than cured CA is considered safe by the US and European health/toxicology safety programs. This is considering normal function and use of the given product...if this use defies the MSDS then it is what it is...CA MSDS (example) http://www.sirchie.com/Assets/msds/cna102.pdf most note contact of ingestion as "Ingestion: Ingestion is not likely. See supplemental page." which is usually not supplied So I think worst case is a loss of gloss as the mouth acid breaks the cured/polished shell. Great question though Raymond __________________ "Men of broader intellect know that there is no sharp distinction betwixt the real and the unreal..." H.P.Lovecraft "Never interrupt your enemy when he is about to make a mistake" Napoleon Last edited by atomic ray; 08-11-2010 at 04:50 PM.

08-12-2010, 12:33 PM	#6 (permalink)
atomic ray Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Corpus Christi Texas Posts: 83 Photos: 0	That is true about the medical use, but that is a different formula...usually 2-octyl cyanoacrylate...but yes indeed is becomes inert once it cures. The main issue is breaking the cure with solvents. Again an interesting subject __________________ "Men of broader intellect know that there is no sharp distinction betwixt the real and the unreal..." H.P.Lovecraft "Never interrupt your enemy when he is about to make a mistake" Napoleon

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08-11-2010, 04:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
BigguyZ Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA. Posts: 765 Photos: 24	AFAIK..... all finishes are safe (enough) after fully cured. The nasty stuff is the solvent, and that's gone once it's fully cured. I wouldn't make a habit of eating cured finish, but I also wouldn't call the medics either.

08-11-2010, 07:57 PM	#4 (permalink)
affyx Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Hampden Twp, PA Posts: 14 Photos: 0	awesome! thank you so much for the answers!

08-11-2010, 10:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
sbwertz Join Date: May 2010 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 787 Photos: 16	Since they use CA to glue surgical incisions I would think it would not be harmful. When my husband had a triple bypass they glued him all back together! They split his sternum and glued it back together, and glued the incision. He didn't have any stitches at all. It was all CA.