CA allergic reactions

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Brent

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I made a few pens last week and used a ca finish and man it sent my sinus"s for a loop. took about three days to get over it. I was using a good quality dust mask, maybe a dust collector hood over my lathe might help. I really like the results from the ca finish But for know I am not going to use it any more. Anybody else had this problem?
 
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DCBluesman

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It's well documented to cause ocular and airway irritation. That keeps a lot of folks from using the finish. It is not toxic, according to the EPA and OSHA. There is an odorless CA, but it's nearly three times as expensive.
 

woodscavenger

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My friend was in my shop with me learning about penturning and he turned to me and asked who was cutting onions. He had tears streaming down his face. I was about 3 feet away gluing in a bunch of tubes. I could barely smell the stuff but it took him for a ride.

I don't have a dust collector but I use my floor adapter on my shop vac and clamp it about an inch under my mandrel and use it when I sand and when I use the CA. It greatly enhances the experience. It is much louder, but my eyes don't burn anymore.
 

ctEaglesc

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I have related this many times,I have a dust collector boot suspended from the ceing hooked up to my D.C.,
The boot is a 4x10x4" HVAC floor boot.
I have the D.C. running whenever the lathe is on.
I have no problems with antler or CA fumes or odors.
this should be a warning for those that are having reactions.
Think of the CA the same as an odor in natural or propane gas.
What about the fine sanding dust that you are breathing but does not give you a reaction.
There is no way I would turn using a hood or mask.
That would make an enjoyable task unbearable for me.
your mileage may vary.
My D.C.(not Lou) is run through a chip separator nand vented to the outside.
Yes I am also exhausting heated air to the outside,but there are way to bring in"make up "air to the system that would minimize heat loss.
It is done in fireplaces, kitchen hoods all the time.
 

jrc

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I use a very small fan to blow the fumes from ca away. It's to the right of me and only takes a second to turn it on and off. Been doing it for almost 3 years and I never smell it.
I read it can give you liver damage.
 

ctEaglesc

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Originally posted by jrc
<br />I use a very small fan to blow the fumes from ca away. It's to the right of me and only takes a second to turn it on and off. Been doing it for almost 3 years and I never smell it.
I read it can give you liver damage.[/quote

And all this time I thought it was the scotch I used to drink.[;)]
 

wicook

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I use CA to repair blanks, stabilize punky areas, attach tenons, fit finials or tips that won't hold in the tubes, etc. -- but not as a finish. I tried it once...for about 10 seconds and had to leave the shop for a while. It's Shellawax and Crystal Coat for me. I may yet try Deft or a wipe-on poly one of these days, but right now, I'm getting very good results with 2-3 coats of sanding sealer (shellac or Mylands) followed by 4-5 coats of Shellawax or Crystal Coat. The finishes seem quite durable so far. As has been the experience of many others, my earlier attempts with the HUT sticks weren't very satisfactory over the longer term.
 

ctEaglesc

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If applied properly there's nothing wrong with the hut Carnauba sticks.
The reason the KK is working for you is becaues you are using Shellawx under it.
Try the KK without the sealer and you will see why most don't like the KK.
 

Brent

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Lou, I've noticed that people apply different products before putting on your TSW, is this mostly just personal preference. About all I would know that some woods need a sanding sealer and some would not, beyond that I wouldn't know. The finish on your pens always looks great. could you share some of your wisdom here and tell us your oppinion on what to use on some woods ( like hard, soft and oily ) without the use of ca.
 

DCBluesman

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Brent--I'll do that this weekend and put it in this forum. I'm tired and a little punchy tonight, so I might be incoherent. [8D]
Originally posted by Brent
<br />Lou, I've noticed that people apply different products before putting on your TSW, is this mostly just personal preference. About all I would know that some woods need a sanding sealer and some would not, beyond that I wouldn't know. The finish on your pens always looks great. could you share some of your wisdom here and tell us your oppinion on what to use on some woods ( like hard, soft and oily ) without the use of ca.
 

ilikewood

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I'm sensitive to it as well...it tends to remove my skin alot. Oh wait, thats just me getting it all over myself.

Maybe try using a poly or lacquer after a different sealer. CA can be brutal sometimes.
 

DCBluesman

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Hi Brent. There's a couple of parts to your question, so I'm taking the easy one first. I think most folks do select their finish based on personal preference. If you read Russ F's articles that I reference very often, you'll find that even Russ moves from finish to finish and sometimes only based on his mood at the time. I, too, vary my finishing based on my experience and based on what look I hope to create.

Now for the second part. This is a little more difficult and I want to stress that these are MY experiences and MY methods and MY reasons. I don't claim to be the Oracle of Finishes.

<b>The Finishing Zen of the Bluesman</b>

I believe that every wood deserves the best possible finish, even if it's no finish. Plastics deserve no less, but there are less variances between acrylics, celluloids, polyesters and polyurethanes, so finding a good finishing system is a bit easier.

Whether you are finishing plastics or wood, your finish will be no better than your sanding and polishing of the bare surface. It is the single most important component in your finishing. Whether you use regular or automotive sandpaper, Abralon, Micro-Mesh, Tripoli polish, jewelers rouge, Beall buffing system or anything else, master sanding and polishing and your finishes will look better (even if you do nothing else different). This is not opinion. This is fact.

Plastics need no base coat. Period. They need to be sanded and then polished to the look that you want, be it an 800 grit automotive sandpaper or Micro-mesh 12000. A swirl remover is a personal option. Many use automotive products for this. I have no preference, either way. Some people don't think plastics need a top coat. I think they do. Many of them are soft and a durable topcoat will add a level of protection. I use TSW on top of all plastics. Personal preference AND it passes the fingernail gouge test.

Finishing wood is a different matter. It depends on the density, oiliness, punk-factor, openness of grain and pores, voids, gum pockets, etc. I could write a book on my experiences with these factors and still not cover them all. What I have found, that will cut across many different variances in woods, follows.

I believe that some sort of basecoat is needed for virtually all woods.

For a punky or very soft wood, including many spalts, you may want to include CA as part of a base coat. I have, but don't always. More often, I will use a good sanding sealer. Even a spalted softwood will firm up with sanding sealer. I like water-borne sanding sealers or lacquers because the odors are less offensive and the reduced volume of solvents gives me a more reproducable coat. If the wood is very soft or very punky AND it is a pretty or meaningful wood, consider having it stabilized. You can do it yourself if you have the time and energy, but the cost of stabilization is not prohibitive.

A very good base coat is simple shellac. It's a natural product that when applied with heat, usually in a friction creating technique, will close pores and grains, resulting in a good layer of protection of the underlying wood. Additionally, it can be applied in several THIN layers. Less shellac in each layer is better, in this case. I use shellac a lot. I mix it myself in small batches as it has a shelf life of only about 3-4 months. It also comes in colors from nearly transparent to deep amber. The right shellac can pop a grain like little else will. Work on perfecting a shellac finish. It will provide an excellent base for any other finishing you do.

Shellac wears poorly in most cases, so I like a finish on top of it <b>unless</b> the wood is very oily (like cocobolo, ebony, Brazilian rosewood, olive wood). I often put TSW directly over the shellac for oily woods. I use to use Renaissance Wax and like it for this application as well.

Generally I like a lacquer finish on wood. It's a personal preference. MANY excellent penturners like polyurethane. Some like CA. This is a preference area. Which ever you select, master this process. Getting a smooth series of thin layers is where you will differentiate your work from those who won't put forth the effort. I use a 2X magnifying glass on all of my pens now, just to be sure I'm proud of the finish (and because at 53, my eyes are not what they once were). If I'm not satisfied, I sand it down and start again. Some of my pens are finished two or three times before I'm satisfied.

Top coats are optional. Here's where you can go from low- to semi- to high gloss. There are several ideas here. One is to put a good quality wood wax as the top coat. Wood waxes buff to a high sheen, but do not last very long. As long as you don't mind waxing pens regularly, they can be used very effectively.

Renaissance Wax is another choice of many. It's an excellent microcrystalline polyester. It's VERY easy to apply and gives a brillian shine. It's difficult, however, to get a low lustre or a semi-gloss with Renaissance Wax.

Carnauba is often used as a top coat. This is one of my least favorites. It creates a beautiful finish and it is the hardest naturally occurring wax in the world. The problem is that it is softened by perspiration. If you are going to use carnauba I strongly recommend topping it with Renaissance Wax which will inhibit perspiration absorption. (TSW works too, but it already has the carnauba in it).

This is the sticky part. It may seem like a sales pitch, but I really just want to discuss TSW because it was developed specifically with pen finishing in mind. I use TSW as a topcoat for everything, but especially for wood. I developed it for wood. No one was more surprised than me when someone called and told me that it worked on plastics.

What does TSW do? And How?

TSW is a proprietary blend of pure, white Brazilian carnauba (that's actually redundant, since all carnauba comes from Brazil) wax, a long-chain polymer (in minute amounts), a UV-A and UV-B deflecting agent, and a small amount of coconut oil. (There are a few other ingredients, but these are the important ones.) Each of the four primary ingredients serves the wood and/or the wood worker in a different way.

Carnauba, being a natural wax, let's wood retain it's natural feel. I was at Woodcraft recently and looked at their carnauba. I also have some carnauba from Beall Tool Co. Both are beige. Both are 99% (or less) pure carnauba. The carnauba in TSW is "five nines" pure... 99.999%. It must be this pure to mix with the second component, the polymer.

The long chain polymer is carefully mixed and heated to a very precise temperature in order for this long chain polymer to "capture" the carnauba, creating a "plasticized" carnauba. The resultant compound does not soften with perspiration.

The UV-A and UV-B additive was selected for it's deflecting characteristics. It literally bends that portion of the spectrum away from the wood. Other UV protectants cannot be made transparent. Is this protection perfect? NO. It's reduces UV-A and UV-B rays through deflection of 20-40%.

The last of the primary ingredients is the coconut oil. It's there to create a more pleasant aroma (to most) than the normal "-ene" smell of finishes.

What you end up with when you put these things together is a natural wax with excellent durability. It also can be buffed from a non-gloss all the way to a high-gloss finish. That's what we wanted to make. That's what it does. I use it. Some others use it. Some don't. It's a preference thing.

Brent (and anyone else who's still reading), I wish I could give you more definitive answers, but there are volumes written on the subject. If you have specific questions, email me through the forum. I'll do my best to give you an answer or at least point you to the right person who will know. [8D]
Originally posted by Brent
<br />could you share some of your wisdom here and tell us your oppinion on what to use on some woods ( like hard, soft and oily ) without the use of ca.
 

Brent

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Illinois, USA.
Thanks lou, for all of your information and time that you have shared. Its nice to be able to see your ideas on this subject, which are greatly admired. since you have your own finish product I know that you have experimented with a lot of woods and finish products and thought you would be a good guy to ask. I know there are others here that do a lot of experimenting to. I am going to print out your answer so that I can have it down stairs in my shop the next time I make a pen to use as a guide. Again Thanks for your time and information on this
 
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