jfrantz
Member
OK, would someone kindly tell me the difference between a BLO/CA finish and a CA/BLO finish, which works best and why?
Thanks in advance,
Stem
Thanks in advance,
Stem
BLO/CA vs CA/BLO ?
- Thread starter jfrantz
- Start date
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its_virgil
Member
They are both the same, basically. Some of us put the boiled linseed oil on first then the CA and others of us put the CA on first and then immedialely follow with the boiled linseed oil and still others of us no boiled linseed oil at all. Which works best? That depends upon whom you ask. I use CA as my finish of choice and do prefer to use boiled linseed oil but find oil first or CA first works equally well for me. I sometimes do both on the same pen. There are several articles in the library along with videos as well as videos on You-
Tube. Searching the finishing forum for CA finish and you'll get all the reading you'll ever want to read on the subject.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
Tube. Searching the finishing forum for CA finish and you'll get all the reading you'll ever want to read on the subject.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
leehljp
Member Liaison
BLO is a very mild accelerant as well as a lubricant (IMO) that helps smooth the CA going onto the pen. When applied to the paper towel first, BLO (again IMO) prevents so much of the CA from being absorbed into the paper towel and puts more onto the pen.
However, I use holly and bloodwood quite a bit. BLO will cause holly to look like antique ivory quick. It will turn bloodwood from a brilliant maroon/red to a slightly burnt orange brown, so I don't use BLO at all - at least on the first few applications of CA on these woods.
I do use BLO directly on the wood of most other blanks because it enhances the grain and color immensely that CA does not.
There are times when BLO enhances the grain and chatoyance as well as bring the colors out more beautifully. The difference is knowing the wood and knowing finishes. Clear water based, acrylic based and some lacquer based finishes (including CA) usually set a neutral tone to the wood when applied directly and before ANY oils/BLO. ON some this looks great, but on other it leaves it uneventful, too clear and even plastic looking.
BLO, Poly's, and other "oil" based finishes add a "warmth" to the surface that is greatly appreciated in most circumstances. BLO does this, but it (and the other finishes) also tint white woods to slightly yellowish or red woods to orange-ish. It is a matter of knowing your woods and how you want them to look.
With this in mind, your application of CA/BLO, BLO/CA will change depending on the outcome you want as it relates to color.
One thing to avoid - don't use BLO directly on oily woods first or the CA will have a tendency to "lift" or not stick.
However, I use holly and bloodwood quite a bit. BLO will cause holly to look like antique ivory quick. It will turn bloodwood from a brilliant maroon/red to a slightly burnt orange brown, so I don't use BLO at all - at least on the first few applications of CA on these woods.
I do use BLO directly on the wood of most other blanks because it enhances the grain and color immensely that CA does not.
There are times when BLO enhances the grain and chatoyance as well as bring the colors out more beautifully. The difference is knowing the wood and knowing finishes. Clear water based, acrylic based and some lacquer based finishes (including CA) usually set a neutral tone to the wood when applied directly and before ANY oils/BLO. ON some this looks great, but on other it leaves it uneventful, too clear and even plastic looking.
BLO, Poly's, and other "oil" based finishes add a "warmth" to the surface that is greatly appreciated in most circumstances. BLO does this, but it (and the other finishes) also tint white woods to slightly yellowish or red woods to orange-ish. It is a matter of knowing your woods and how you want them to look.
With this in mind, your application of CA/BLO, BLO/CA will change depending on the outcome you want as it relates to color.
One thing to avoid - don't use BLO directly on oily woods first or the CA will have a tendency to "lift" or not stick.
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its_virgil
Member
Obviously I'm not Hank, but I clean all woods with accelerator prior to starting the finishing. Oily woods get a very thorough cleaning. I use accelerator in bottles, not the aerosol for this. Others use denatured alcohol but I've stopped using alcohol and use the accelerator now. The accelerator evaporates very quickly and does not interfer with the finishing.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
Do a good turn daily!
Don
GouletPens
Member
You can also wipe down the wood with acetone to get the oils off. Maybe it's just me, but I can't really tell the difference between woods I've rubbed with BLO then CA and just plain CA. I've done this on a few woods but mainly Amb. burl. You'd think this would be one where it would really pop the grain, but I can't tell that much of a difference between using BLO or not (at least in the visual appearance).
I sometimes use BLO with my CA, but often I do just CA and use spray accelerant b/c it's faster. I use it sparingly though, because overdoing the accelerant can cause too much heat to build up that causes cracks down the road, or it can cause clouding. A quick spray every other coat will do just fine. Stuff wreaks like death tho!
I sometimes use BLO with my CA, but often I do just CA and use spray accelerant b/c it's faster. I use it sparingly though, because overdoing the accelerant can cause too much heat to build up that causes cracks down the road, or it can cause clouding. A quick spray every other coat will do just fine. Stuff wreaks like death tho!
Darrin
Member
It's all preferance...I for example start with Bush oil, then Ca, then BLO, Then Ca, Then BLO, Then Ca.......Experiment and you will find results that suit what you like.
leehljp
Member Liaison
As an experiment:
Get some very white holly and in a small section put some BLO on it, let it set for a while and then smear some CA on top of that. Next put some CA next to that spot without any BLO under it, there will be an antiquing difference on the first.
AS to Bloodwood, at least for the bloodwood that I have, I noticed there is an unwanted "hue" difference between BLO/CA versus straight CA on finished pens, unless you want an orangish hue.
All of this is a personal "preference," but a preference in "colors and tints" instead of "application" alone.
Caveat: I'm in need of more BLO as my three year old BLO bottle is almost empty. What I found this past week has been BLO that seems more clear - than the somewhat amber-ish colored BLO of three years ago. I don't know how that figures into the factor. I do know that oil based polys do the same thing.
Get some very white holly and in a small section put some BLO on it, let it set for a while and then smear some CA on top of that. Next put some CA next to that spot without any BLO under it, there will be an antiquing difference on the first.
AS to Bloodwood, at least for the bloodwood that I have, I noticed there is an unwanted "hue" difference between BLO/CA versus straight CA on finished pens, unless you want an orangish hue.
All of this is a personal "preference," but a preference in "colors and tints" instead of "application" alone.
Caveat: I'm in need of more BLO as my three year old BLO bottle is almost empty. What I found this past week has been BLO that seems more clear - than the somewhat amber-ish colored BLO of three years ago. I don't know how that figures into the factor. I do know that oil based polys do the same thing.
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jkeithrussell
Member
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,277
I've come to believe that CA finishing is one of those things that you just have to learn by doing. Experiment with different ways of doing it, experiment by changing the variables, and see what works best for you. I only figured out how to get reasonably consistent results with CA when I stopped trying to follow checklists and just started trying to make it work.
So, to answer your question, I would say to try it both ways (on different kinds of wood), and see which way you like it best.
So, to answer your question, I would say to try it both ways (on different kinds of wood), and see which way you like it best.
jfrantz
Member
One more question
Thanks for all the advice! Can you suggest the best method of keeping the bushings from sticking to the blanks when applying the CA?
Stem
Thanks for all the advice! Can you suggest the best method of keeping the bushings from sticking to the blanks when applying the CA?
Stem
GouletPens
Member
Many will say use mandrelless bushings made of delrin or things like that, but if you don't want to have to buy all new bushings you can just slop the CA right over them, sand the finish down right on the mandrel, and most of the time snap the bushings right off without a problem. If you like, you can take the point of a skew or parting tool and cut a little groove right near where the bushing meets the wood (cut into the bushing part though) to help give a cleaner break. I've tried waxing the bushings and all other things and this method has been the fastest and most reliable for me.
NewLondon88
Local Chapter Leader
I wonder if the BLO darkens in the can with age?
I also wonder if the BLO is more clear now, will it be more clear 3 years
from now? (after it is applied and cured)
Try it both ways and take your pick.
I started using CA glue with the BLO over the top for 3 reasons and have never had a need to change.
I use a lot of softer wood species because I am allergic to most tropical hardwoods, and want the penetration of the harder CA into the wood to harden and fill the grain. The glue can't penetrate very well if the wood is already filled with Boiled Linseed Oil. Using the CA as a grain filler has preordained that the CA goes on first for the finishing coats.
I prefer to use the CA by itself, but the surface can be kinda rough when it cures, and there is always the danger of it grabbing the applicator. BLO will level out the CA coating, the same as with a friction polish. The smoother CA coating requires less sanding. Used like this, Mineral Oil works just as well as BLO.
Lastly, I never liked the results from putting the BLO on first.
I still have to finish the finish because the surface gloss with the BLO lubricant is always less than what I get from plain CA glue sanded to the same 12,000-grit immediately after it is applied. By letting it sit overnight before sanding to 12,000 Micro-Mesh, there is no difference in the surface gloss between the CA/BLO and plain CA glue. The only downside is the overnight wait before the final sanding and polishing.
I started using CA glue with the BLO over the top for 3 reasons and have never had a need to change.
I use a lot of softer wood species because I am allergic to most tropical hardwoods, and want the penetration of the harder CA into the wood to harden and fill the grain. The glue can't penetrate very well if the wood is already filled with Boiled Linseed Oil. Using the CA as a grain filler has preordained that the CA goes on first for the finishing coats.
I prefer to use the CA by itself, but the surface can be kinda rough when it cures, and there is always the danger of it grabbing the applicator. BLO will level out the CA coating, the same as with a friction polish. The smoother CA coating requires less sanding. Used like this, Mineral Oil works just as well as BLO.
Lastly, I never liked the results from putting the BLO on first.
I still have to finish the finish because the surface gloss with the BLO lubricant is always less than what I get from plain CA glue sanded to the same 12,000-grit immediately after it is applied. By letting it sit overnight before sanding to 12,000 Micro-Mesh, there is no difference in the surface gloss between the CA/BLO and plain CA glue. The only downside is the overnight wait before the final sanding and polishing.
Bikerdad
Member
For those who have used Mineral Oil rather than BLO for the lubricant, does the MO warm the wood the way BLO does, or is it more neutral?
DO NOT use Mineral Oil under the CA glue. It will never harden. Instead, it will just pay there and destroy the finish.
BLO warms the CA finish because it acts as a mild accelerator, and that warms the finish. This heat is the salvation of the BLO when it is used UNDER the CA glue because the heat also cures the BLO.
BLO warms the CA finish because it acts as a mild accelerator, and that warms the finish. This heat is the salvation of the BLO when it is used UNDER the CA glue because the heat also cures the BLO.