Beware sensitivity to CA

[goodlittlewitch]

Hi--I am new to IAP and new to turning. The first time I used a lathe was this past November. I bought a used Shopsmith E10 (1949) in December and I started turning in earnest a week and a half ago. My Shopsmith was moved (read: my husband moved my Shopsmith) down to the basement on 1/27 and I got to work right away. I made three pens and a keychain that day and was very excited and happy. It was the first time I'd used CA as a finish (thanks Woodcraft, Allentown, PA!)

Saturday night, I thought I'd come down with the worst headcold I'd ever had. I went to bed and didn't turn again until this past Saturday (2/3). Well, wouldn't you know it, by Saturday night, I was sick again--upper respiratory distress--to the point I nearly went to the ER with difficulty breathing. I've since determined that I am extremely sensitive to CA (Yes, I'm wearing a mask).

If you have this difficulty (feels like a horrible cold or flu with severe itching in your neck/throat) STOP USING THE CA! Try looking at the thread Life After CA (http://www.penturners.org/forum/f28/life-after-ca-72065/) which I am finding enormously helpful in figuring out alternatives.

Thanks in advance to all of you with so much experience and advice to share!

 

[ctubbs]

Welcome GoodLittleWitch, from far west Kentucky, to the addiction, sometimes referred to as the vortex. You mention that you have read some of the site, be sure to give the library a good bit of time. The link is at the top of the page. You will find an article called Library Index. This covers tutorials on about anything pen making you can think of. You will also notice that there are articles listed by year. Much good info there as well. When these fail to answer your questions, by all means post it here. I have never seen one go unanswered very long. You might also want to give this thread a good look. It has some very good info for the beginning pen turner; http://content.penturners.org/library/general_reference/Getting_started_in_pen_turning.pdf. Grab some wood, make some shavings and have fun all the while being safe.
Have a look at the series of videos ed4copies has just posted showing how to complete a pen from drill to finish.
As an alternative finish, some here have started using Plexiglas dissolved in acetone as a finish. For me, it still needs more practice, but it will give a good durable finish once mastered. It is good that you have found out the cause of your distress before it caused more serious and lasting damage.
Charles

 

[Monty]

You might want to try the low odor or odorless CA or one of these.

 

[GoatRider]

I've heard odorless CA doesn't help much for people who are highly sensitized. But it's worth a try.

What kind of mask are you using? If it's just a dust mask, that won't do anything. You need a proper respirator, one with carbon canisters. And proper chem goggles- the fumes get in your eyes too and into your sinuses via the lacrimosa duct.

 

[Rolland]

I always run the vaccum when I use ca it filters through the internal fine filter in the machine. I have it set up as a dust collector on the lathe so it works pretty well and the exhaust is pointed away from me so I don't get any secondary odor. I hate the fumes and it does cause my nose to run if I get a good hit.

 

[Jim Burr]

CA in itself is not harmful...with the exception of the occasional skin reaction. That can be anything with anyone. What causes the issue is the exothermic reaction upon curing, creating fumes that fall into the VOC category. A few ways to reduce exposure; put your lathe in front of a window and run a fan blowing out the window. Drop that paper towel or whatever application method that was used ASAP and get another. Use a VOC approved respirator while finishing your pen (Trend is not VOC approved...look for a device using activated charcoal in it's filtration). Find a finish that doesn't use CA...and an alternate method for attaching tubes to blanks. Those should help keep those airway intact.

 

[sbell111]

A mask is no substitute for a properly tuned dust collection system.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

Respiratory distress is not something you should mess around with. For me Lacewood has a similar reaction and it got worse every time I used it. You can glue tubes in with epoxy and there are other methods of finishing a pen. Some kind of a dust collection system would be a good idea. Sanding can generate a lot if fine dust.
Welcome to the group and don't be scared to ask questions and show us what you have turned.

 

[leehljp]

Wendy, I have been turning pens for 8+ years now, and a member of IAP for almost as long. For the first 2 years of applying CA I had no problem. At 2 1/2 years, I suddenly developed a light "cold" for a couple of days. A couple of weeks later, it happened again but worse. Then two more weeks later - full blown flu like symptoms.

I can turn and apply CA for a couple of hours and be fine for about 4 hours, Then suddenly within 30 minutes, it hits me with full-blown severe flu like symptoms for two to three days. There were a couple of people on this forum that alerted me to the allergy aspects of CA and how it builds up and suddenly hits. The 4th time this happened, I got double vision and it was then that I had to make a decision - CA or No CA.

I tried other finishes and they did great. But I liked the speed, hardness and look of CA. I tried the liquid acrylic that is made from melting plexiglass with acetone. It did OK but had some characteristics that I didn't like. I tried Lacquer and it takes a tad too long.

Back to CA. How can I use it and not die in the process?

1. I installed a small Dust Collector system for the lathe only. I was in Japan at that time, and finding a decent DC system was difficult and expensive. And because of neighbors house within 8 ft, I had to make it nearly silent. I USED IT EVERY TIME! Now I am making a DC system for my lathe back here in the States. No DC system - No CA pens.
2. I tried several masks and found one that worked for me. I needed one that allowed this "large air volume" fellow to breath without the air escaping and fogging my glasses. I WEAR IT at ALL times when working with CA.
3. Wear goggles or face shield.
4. Placed a fan blowing across the lathe to take any dust or fumes away from me.
5. Kept a damp towel near by and wipe down my sleeves and face if needed.
6. Take an allergy tablet before turning.

This was a pain at first but it soon became second nature and no problem.

And lastly, this theme of severe CA allergies comes up 2 to 4 times each year. It is quite common. CA recommendations should come with an allergy caveat!

 

[goodlittlewitch]

Wow, what great advice, everyone! Thank you!

I have gone to an alternative I haven't seen mentioned here...multiple coats of shellac (custom mixed from flakes to the consistency that seems to work well--not too thin, not too thick and not premixed), and a couple of coats of Waterlox. Then buffing with jewelers polish and finish with wax. So far, it *looks* beautiful. I don't know yet how it will stand up over time.

Another thought...my mask is definitely inadequate, but I have a good dust collection system. I think I'm just really, really sensitive. Hank Lee's description of his reaction is pretty close to mine--I can work for a few hours and then, after I'm done for an hour or two, I get slammed with something that feels like a combination of a killer headcold and/or flu, that lasts several days. I think my CA days are over.

I may try Deft and Endura over time, to compare the results to the Waterlox.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks again! It's great to be here! (I posted photos of my first two weekends of results. Let me know what you think?)

Wendy (NJ)

 

[leehljp]

Enduro, Deft, lacquer, and even water based poly is good. One thing to search for is "Dipping". Several people do this, or at least used to do this. They put stoppers in the end of the finished blank and a hook in one of the stoppers. Then they would dip the turned blank into their favorite finish and hang it to cure or dry. Most finishes outside of CA really need over night to 24 hours minimum for curing. That is kind of long for 1 pen but if you plan ahead and dip 10 to 20 or more, that works out to one in 2 hours to 1 per hour or so - as an average. Dipping is usually very uniform and adds a good thick coat.

OF course there are other ways to apply the finish that are just as good. What ever works best for an individual and their situation is what to go with.

This is the type of mask that I use: Click here. I don't use that particular model but that is the type - with double filter cartridges.

 

[wouldentu2?]

At least try the odorless CA before going to something else. I have used it now for one year in a 10' x 20' building and never had another bad experience.

 

[leehljp]

At least try the odorless CA before going to something else. I have used it now for one year in a 10' x 20' building and never had another bad experience.

I agree with trying odorless in general. However, IF odorless works, that is great, and it might - But if it does not, the extreme severity that she experienced (and me also) is not worth the risk to find out.

The time to try odorless is when the first symptoms appear BEFORE it becomes severe. For Wendy, it was immediate in her usage of CA. For me, I had 2 1/2 years before it started and when it did it went from mild to wild in about 4 - 5 weeks.

Your experience makes me want to give it a try and I just might do that. I would be a good guinea pig for this!
:biggrin:

VERY IMPORTANT - I forgot something in the above post - For some people it IS the FUMES. So Odorless would help. However, for some people it is the CA sanding DUST, and for some (me and probably Wendy) it is the CA Sanding DUST and FUMES. In the latter two cases, Odorless will not help.

 

[GoatRider]

Here's where I get my odorless CA. Anybody know of a better place? My local hobby shop has Zap brand, but not in thin.

Super Gold Thin Odorless Foam Safe CA, 1 oz. from Hobby Lobby

I've heard that once you're sensitized, odorless can still be a problem. I don't think there's any evidence one way or the other if using odorless will keep you from getting sensitized. But the odorless sure is a heck of a lot less annoying.

 

[paramount Pen]

Read this
Mercury Adhesives FAQ's About CA glues, resins, shelf life, storage, bonding, use and handeling

Fred Borden