About Entry Pictures

[Ed McDonnell]

Have you ever seen those polls where some of the pictures are really tiny and some of them are so huge you have to scroll for a couple of minutes to see the whole thing? It makes it really hard for people to fairly judge the pens.

The entry form says pictures should be 800 x 600. If you send me a picture that is only 125 x 125, I will contact you to see if you can send a bigger picture. If you send me a picture that is 10,000 x 40,000, I will resize it. When I post the pictures for viewing (after the entry period is closed) and the polls for voting, all the pictures will be 800 x 600.

I also reserve the right to crop pictures to make sure each one shows off the pen that has been submitted. Some of you will undoubtedly have beautiful backgrounds on your pictures. Beautiful backgrounds are good, but we want to see the pens, not a bunch of background. Make sure your pen is the dominant element in your picture.

Any questions about pictures, post them to this thread (or pm me).

Are you a good pen turner, but a not so good photographer? Don't let that stop you from entering the competition. If you are not going to enter because of photo problems, get in touch with me so we can see if we can find a solution. (This offer is open to all pen turners, not just the "good" ones....just want to be clear).


Ed

 

[edstreet]

You know for many we have to do some serious zooming to see 800 x 600 as that is way to small and most all sites today have adopted 1024 standards, the 800 standards is about 20 years old or so now.

Photo's are copyrighted and you do not have the right to crop with out approval from the copyright holder, which is the photographer. According to court rulings you do have the right to crop and change thumbnail images however. However any legal issues aside a cropped photo is a new submission as you changed the context and ambiance of what the artist was going for when the image was submitted.

 

[Ed McDonnell]

Hi Ed - Thanks for the comments.

I suggest you contact Jeff about the 800 x 600 limitation. The entry form says 800 x 600 and that's what I'm going with.

This is a pen contest and not a photo contest. Pens should be judged on the merits of the pen. Not the context and ambiance of the photo. I've notified the community that I will resize and crop (in those rare instance where required) photos to present pens for judging as efficiently and fairly as possible. Submissions after that notification include implicit acceptance of the possibility of cropping and resizing.

I don't expect any of this to be necessary for the vast majority of pictures. I will also contact those who submitted pictures that I feel need resizing and / or cropping to work out the issue.

Bottom line, it's a pen contest and not a photo contest. Send a picture that is 800 x 600 with the pen as the dominant element in the picture (should take up a large part of the frame, not a tiny portion) and we are good. The pens should speak for themselves. The photos are just a means of allowing people to judge and vote virtually. There are contests in the bash where the photographic artistry is paramount. This isn't one of them.

Ed

 

[edstreet]

I am with you on all of that but I am just saying that any photo submitted has a copyright and cropping alters that and yields an entry that was not original as it changes the perspective, context, view point and breaks the rule of thirds and other things as it was intended by the author. By undergoing any of those changes will change the perception of the pen.

Resizing is acceptable but not cropping. Also when you upload an image to IAP (what many are probably used to doing) the site resizes the image to suit. It is rather shocking to hear that the photo submission entries are not doing the same.

Honestly I am quite shocked and somewhat disappointed that the rules did not state no background objects of any form, just plain solid colors and nothing in the image besides the pen.

 

[Ed McDonnell]

Ed - How is your entry for the contest coming? I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Ed

 

[skiprat]

Gee Edstreet, you're such a fun guy. I bet you are the life of loads of parties!!:biggrin:

 

[toddlajoie]

I believe the entry form is going to restrict the photo size, I know for a fact there is a file SIZE limit of 256kb. Not sure if the submission form is savy enough to analyze it for pixel dimensions, but you're not going to get a very large (pixel-wise) photo under 256kb without some serious compression, so I wouldn't fret too much about the chances of getting a 10,000x40,000 pixel image that is more than a black rectangle.

I believe the 600x800 was selected as it is generally viewable on most user's screens without scrolling, yet still large enough to show decent detail.


I will also offer my assistance to any member of any contest who needs help sizing images (I will not do any image adjustments for you, as that would not be fair..) or even just advice on how to do it well...

 

[Ed McDonnell]

Hi Todd - Ok, maybe I was being a little sensational with the 10,000 x 40,000 :biggrin:, but we've see some really big pictures make it through the entry forms. Thanks for your offer to help entrants with their photos. Anything that can get the pens fairly represented in a picture here so they look as close to real life as possible is good. (Real life is the key. No Hollywood airbrushed glamour shots please!!!)

(Not directed at you Todd) I think we all (well, most of us anyway) want to see this contest be as much about the pens as possible. In a perfect world all the pens would be photographed by the same person at the same time with the same equipment to eliminate photography completely from the decision. But that's just not practical. So we do the best we can.

Any questions or comments, reply here or pm me. Complaints? I'll have to think about the best place to send them, so just keep them to yourself for right now.

Let's have some fun!!!


Ed

 

[mredburn]

Last year we had a submission in the youth contest that I had to resize it so you didnt have to scroll 2 pages to see. I could have contacted the turner to have him correct it but these are friendly competitions not blood letting.

 

[Ed McDonnell]

Here's a link to a 320 gigapixel panoramic picture of London. You can rotate and zoom in to an incredible level of detail (that's what 320 gigapixels gets you). Enjoy the picture, but don' t try and do this with your pen photo for this contest. :biggrin:

BT Tower 360 Panorama of London

Ed

 

[MesquiteMan]

The entry forms only restrict the file size of the photo. It does not have the ability to restrict the image size.

 

[OLDMAN5050]

Those photos that are so large are not pleasant to look at. I want to see a pen like we would in person. I don't know anyone who uses a loupe or magnifying glass to look at a pen...

 

[bobleibo]

Holy Crop!

Hi Ed - Thanks for the comments.

I suggest you contact Jeff about the 800 x 600 limitation. The entry form says 800 x 600 and that's what I'm going with.

This is a pen contest and not a photo contest. Pens should be judged on the merits of the pen. Not the context and ambiance of the photo. I've notified the community that I will resize and crop (in those rare instance where required) photos to present pens for judging as efficiently and fairly as possible. Submissions after that notification include implicit acceptance of the possibility of cropping and resizing.

I don't expect any of this to be necessary for the vast majority of pictures. I will also contact those who submitted pictures that I feel need resizing and / or cropping to work out the issue.

Bottom line, it's a pen contest and not a photo contest. Send a picture that is 800 x 600 with the pen as the dominant element in the picture (should take up a large part of the frame, not a tiny portion) and we are good. The pens should speak for themselves. The photos are just a means of allowing people to judge and vote virtually. There are contests in the bash where the photographic artistry is paramount. This isn't one of them.

Ed

This site is a place for FRIENDS to put their efforts on display and maybe learn a few things along the way as well. If someone can make my pictures look better with a few adjustments, I say go for it....I might just learn something new along the way.
Don't worry, my attorney is a pen turner as well and he would say the same thing......crop away!

 

[jeff]

I am with you on all of that but I am just saying that any photo submitted has a copyright and cropping alters that and yields an entry that was not original as it changes the perspective, context, view point and breaks the rule of thirds and other things as it was intended by the author. By undergoing any of those changes will change the perception of the pen.

Resizing is acceptable but not cropping. Also when you upload an image to IAP (what many are probably used to doing) the site resizes the image to suit. It is rather shocking to hear that the photo submission entries are not doing the same.

Honestly I am quite shocked and somewhat disappointed that the rules did not state no background objects of any form, just plain solid colors and nothing in the image besides the pen.

Yikes! two shocks and a disappointment!!

Anyone else who is shocked and/or disappointed or otherwise perturbed by this or any other aspect of a contest should send me a PM. If enough people contact me, I will drastically cut the pay of the entire bash team! This careless approach to contest development will not be tolerated!!! :biggrin:

Seriously, we do our best around here all the time, and specifically in this case the Bash planning team and the contest managers have made every possible effort to create fair, fun contests that the maximum number of people will enjoy.

I encourage everyone to let Mike know when he does his post-Bash survey if there are any characteristics or rules for contests which were missing this year that might improve the experience next year. Better yet, volunteer!

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I encourage everyone to let Mike know when he does his post-Bash survey if there are any characteristics or rules for contests which were missing this year that might improve the experience next year. Better yet, volunteer!

Preferably for prize procurement - this old guy is getting tired! :biggrin:

And if Jeff cuts my pay any more, I'll have to.....well, it's already at zero, so I guess I'll have to start paying him!

 

[toddlajoie]

I will drastically cut the pay of the entire bash team!

But...But...But... I already put a down payment on a new Ferrari... (the Matchbox Edition down at Wally-World....)

 

[jsolie]

Just posting this here, not to stir the pot, but because I find this pic funny and kind of relevant in a photography thread.

Personally, the longer I look at this photo, the more it makes me laugh. :biggrin:

 

[toddlajoie]

Yea, I agree that is a bad cropping job. I always prefer my top border to be larger than the side border...

 

[randywa]

I will drastically cut the pay of the entire bash team!

But...But...But... I already put a down payment on a new Ferrari... (the Matchbox Edition down at Wally-World....)

All of the apples aren't bad yet. Just cut the pay of a select few and add another couple of zeros to the checks of the rest.

 

[bobleibo]

Holy Schmoly!

Let's see.....
cost to be a member here - ZERO
amount I have learned here - UNMEASURABLE
new friends I have met - PRICELESS

If anyone gets their shorts in a bunch over minor things, I'd say buy new shorts.

NOW.....let's talk about this salary thing.
I had a meeting at Oberlin College a few months ago and would swear I saw some dapper dude wearing a sharp Brookes Brother suit stepping out of a shiny new Porsche 911 Turbo. The license plate said "THX IAP"..... who do we all know that lives in that area and where do I apply for that job?

 

[Ambidex]

Let's see.....
cost to be a member here - ZERO
amount I have learned here - UNMEASURABLE
new friends I have met - PRICELESS

If anyone gets their shorts in a bunch over minor things, I'd say buy new shorts.

NOW.....let's talk about this salary thing.
I had a meeting at Oberlin College a few months ago and would swear I saw some dapper dude wearing a sharp Brookes Brother suit stepping out of a shiny new Porsche 911 Turbo. The license plate said "THX IAP"..... who do we all know that lives in that area and where do I apply for that job?

I'm with Bob here...this place was and is meant to be a fun forum where we can help and learn from each other, not to criticize and flaunt our immeasurable knowledge to show our superiority over others. We need to lighten up and have fun people...but then momma always said life is like a box of chocolates:wink: