High End pens.

[Smitty37]

Here is what some would call a high end fountain pen. http://www.skitzone.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/mystery-masterpiece-500x331.jpg
Here is another.
http://www.skitzone.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Aurora-Diamante.jpg

The first has a $700,000+price tag and the 2nd $1,400.000+

 

[duncsuss]

Too ostentatious for my taste ... :biggrin:

 

[Cmiles1985]

Are they of high quality? :biggrin:

 

[Smitty37]

Are they of high quality? :biggrin:

Whether they are or not high quality they are high end either that or an expensive piece of junk.

 

[Smitty37]

Actually, my reason for posting this is to point out that I doubt that anyone here has made a truely high end pen and lets move high end down a little .... the top 10 most expensive pens range from $43,000 to $1,430,000 so lets say that high end begins at about $5.000 I still suspect that few, if any, here has ever made one. On the other hand, I think a lot of people have made high quality pens....heck Bic and Papermate do that.

 

[Smitty37]

Are they of high quality? :biggrin:

If, and you seem to be saying you got these kits from me, you are referring to the Le Roi....I will stand them up against any...if you think you have to take mine apart and glue them....you probably better do the same with theirs. Also, if the loosening has actually occured, please let me know which parts are involved...No one else has suggested this has happened to them and I will not be a happy camper if it has happened. If you are just doing it to avoid what you think might cause you a problem down the road, I can't fault you for taking extra care.

In trying to save some cash (as most of us enjoy doing), I bought a certain kit from a certain vendor at a FAR better price than what I should have paid. These kits may not meet the same specs as the "preferred" vendor that sells them. Since they're of a lower price (and likely a wider tolerance on spec), I have to purposely disassemble pieces that come pre-assembled and glue them. If I don't, the pens tend to come apart after so long. That does not meet my standard spec. So, quality in my definition is conformation to a specification. The specification limit is what may be vague. Example: many lathes are the same, right? There's a Rikon that is VERY similar to an HF lathe. The difference is likely tolerance to specifications. Maybe spindle runout spec on the HF model is 0.002", and the Rikon is 0.0005" Does that make the Rikon 4x better than the HF? Subjective answer, of course! So, the same thing may go for spec'd tolerances in pen kits.

 

[duncsuss]

... lets say that high end begins at about $5.000 I still suspect that few, if any, here has ever made one.

I certainly haven't ... but if you remove one of those zeroes, I got close a couple of times

 

[Smitty37]

... lets say that high end begins at about $5.000 I still suspect that few, if any, here has ever made one.

I certainly haven't ... but if you remove one of those zeroes, I got close a couple of times

Just pointing out something that should be considered - there is high end, then there is high end. For me personally I have not sold a $500 pen but I have bought three or four of them and had one or two given to me. All of them, by my inspection are high quality too.

 

[Cmiles1985]

Oh no, the kits I referenced in the other thread did not come from you Leroy. I have not had any problems with your kits other than my own lack of knowledge. The kits I'm referencing are a bit loose fitting at the joint of two of the nib end pieces. The pressure from the spring pushes those pieces apart on some, especially if too much pressure was applied during assembly. I did not buy these from an IAP vendor.

 

[Smitty37]

Oh no, the kits I referenced in the other thread did not come from you Leroy. I have not had any problems with your kits other than my own lack of knowledge. The kits I'm referencing are a bit loose fitting at the joint of two of the nib end pieces. The pressure from the spring pushes those pieces apart on some, especially if too much pressure was applied during assembly. I did not buy these from an IAP vendor.

I'm glad to hear that....I knew a guy in MA who was selling pen kits awful cheap for that reason.

 

[Ambidex]

I'd be interested in those if they were rollerballs:biggrin:

 

[Smitty37]

Not the turning

If you notice the two pens above, you will quickly see that what makes them unique is not the turning....the really expensive one has some ungodly large number of small diamonds embedded on the barrel and cap. The othe has some very intricate work that was not done on a lathe. Also both were made by companies that make very high priced pens as their business.

 

[duncsuss]

I'd be interested in those if they were rollerballs:biggrin:

I found just the thing for you -- this rollerball from Montegrappa ... link

:biggrin:

 

[edstreet]

These are art pens with expensive embellishments, high priced yes but not high end.

 

[Dan Masshardt]

These are art pens with expensive embellishments, high priced yes but not high end.

What would an example (in actuality or conceptually) of high end in your view?

 

[Chasper]

A Lamborghini Venero costs 4.5 million, a Bugatti Veyron runs about 2.5 million. Does that mean the highest priced Rolls that costs a paltry half million or a top of the line Mercedes that costs a mere quarter million are not high end cars? I think not.

With the same reasoning and regardless of your definition of high end. A high end vehicle starts in the upper reaches of five digits and goes up to infinity. A high end pen starts in the $500 range and goes up infinity.

 

[Smitty37]

These are art pens with expensive embellishments, high priced yes but not high end.

By any definition of high end...they are high end. Whether they are high q;uality - who knows.

 

[Smitty37]

Has anyone considered what we mean when we say high end....mostly I think we just mean our own highest priced offering.

Lets consider the entire world of pens. The price range is from say ten or fifteen cents (and I've gotten them on sale for less than that) to over a million dollars, By far, in volume, the low priced are the most common with low priced Bic and Papermate probably the volume leaders, each with far more sales than all hand and custom made pens combined.

Then there are a whole raft of pens in the 16 cent to five dollar range, including almost all promotional pens that people buy in thousand lot quantities. Again by volume these probably sell more pens than all hand and custom made pens combined.

Then we have the $5.01 to say $15.00 range, now we do start getting some but not a lot of what we sell in that range. But I think that range will be dominated by the $5.00 to maybe $7.00 pens you can find in any office supply store.

I have not looked it up but my guess is that at least 80% (maybe more) of all pens fall into the above catigories.

Now we hit th $15.01 to about $50.00 range. I suspect these will make up all but about two or three percent of what's left.

What all of that implies to me is that nearly the entire market of what we sell is high end within the spectrum of all pens sold.

Obviously when we say high end we are not referring to the entire market for pens.

So what market are we referring to when we say high end?

 

[edstreet]

These are art pens with expensive embellishments, high priced yes but not high end.

By any definition of high end...they are high end. Whether they are high q;uality - who knows.

High end compared with many things perhaps. Just from casual viewing of the images posted you can very quickly tell they are not high end other than the fact they use pricy materials in some areas. They use common base items that is found in the lowest quality pen kits on the market. Items that affects writing performance greatly.

 

[skiprat]

Geeesh.....you guys just keep getting it wrong....

A kit pen is low-end and is turned in a workshop.
A component set is high end and is crafted by an arteeeeest in studio...

 

[edstreet]

Geeesh.....you guys just keep getting it wrong....

A kit pen is low-end and is turned in a workshop.
A component set is high end and is crafted by an arteeeeest in studio...

how about the vendors who sell kit pens and label them and sell them as 'component sets'

It's still a pig with lipstick to matter how you slice it.

 

[Smitty37]

These are art pens with expensive embellishments, high priced yes but not high end.

By any definition of high end...they are high end. Whether they are high q;uality - who knows.

High end compared with many things perhaps. Just from casual viewing of the images posted you can very quickly tell they are not high end other than the fact they use pricy materials in some areas. They use common base items that is found in the lowest quality pen kits on the market. Items that affects writing performance greatly.

High End by any definition. From the pictures you can't support your statement. In Addition they are made by companies well known internationally for providing collectors with high end pens.

 

[edstreet]

High End by any definition. From the pictures you can't support your statement. In Addition they are made by companies well known internationally for providing collectors with high end pens.

Perhaps you are correct. If what you say is indeed true then you could easily be able to tell me the company that makes the feed assembly for those 2 images you posted. After-all they are well known internationally and provide high end, no?

 

[Smitty37]

Geeesh.....you guys just keep getting it wrong....

A kit pen is low-end and is turned in a workshop.
A component set is high end and is crafted by an arteeeeest in studio...

how about the vendors who sell kit pens and label them and sell them as 'component sets'

It's still a pig with lipstick to matter how you slice it.

Ed, let me make this very clear. This thread is not going to be turned into a debate over what small bags of pen components are called....So back off.

 

[skiprat]

Leroy, you've been around the block enough times to know when people like me are poking you in the ribs for fun. Don't take anything I say to heart.
When I read vendors spouting about quality or components or any other rehashed ( to death ) topic, then I like to have a little fun. You guys start the topics to get a reaction but squeal if you don't like the replies. In reality, the only vendors that can be 'Jeered' about on this site, without fear of getting a torrent of abuse from disciples, are Steebar and PSI.
If I ever read on a vendor's site that the stuff they are flogging is actually made by cheap labour in China and the FP nibs that say Iridium Point Germany actually don't have any iridium and have never been anywhere near Germany, then and only then will any of you be given any respect as honest vendors by me.
I'm not a customer of yours so if you would prefer me not to reply to your threads then please say so and I'll add you to my Ignore Vendor list.

However, I do actually like you and enjoy loads of the non-vendorish posts you make.

 

[Smitty37]

Leroy, you've been around the block enough times to know when people like me are poking you in the ribs for fun. Don't take anything I say to heart.
When I read vendors spouting about quality or components or any other rehashed ( to death ) topic, then I like to have a little fun. You guys start the topics to get a reaction but squeal if you don't like the replies. In reality, the only vendors that can be 'Jeered' about on this site, without fear of getting a torrent of abuse from disciples, are Steebar and PSI.
If I ever read on a vendor's site that the stuff they are flogging is actually made by cheap labour in China and the FP nibs that say Iridium Point Germany actually don't have any iridium and have never been anywhere near Germany, then and only then will any of you be given any respect as honest vendors by me.
I'm not a customer of yours so if you would prefer me not to reply to your threads then please say so and I'll add you to my Ignore Vendor list.

However, I do actually like you and enjoy loads of the non-vendorish posts you make.

You covered a lot of ground there.

 

[Ironwood]

To me "high end" implies something at the expensive end of the market, and it also implies good quality, whether that quality is actual or perceived, is variable from product to product.

About 10 years ago, I was in the market for some new stereo gear, I had my heart set on a "high end " European brand that I always considered one of the best.
The store owner actaully talked me out of buying that brand and sold me the equivelent bits made by Yamaha at about half the price because in his experience the Yamaha gear was better quality.
I was a little dissapointed at first because I didnt get my "high end " stereo, but 10 years on, the Yamaha is still thumping out the tunes, would the other one be still performing ? I dont know, but I spent what I saved on CD's and doubled my music library.

Back to pens, if I was to take a gold nugget shaped like a dogs turd, drilled it out to take a refill, and glued some diamonds on the side, would anybody consider this pen to be " high end " ? I certainly wouldnt.

 

[Rich L]

To me "high end" implies something at the expensive end of the market, and it also implies good quality, whether that quality is actual or perceived, is variable from product to product.

About 10 years ago, I was in the market for some new stereo gear, I had my heart set on a "high end " European brand that I always considered one of the best.
The store owner actaully talked me out of buying that brand and sold me the equivelent bits made by Yamaha at about half the price because in his experience the Yamaha gear was better quality.
I was a little dissapointed at first because I didnt get my "high end " stereo, but 10 years on, the Yamaha is still thumping out the tunes, would the other one be still performing ? I dont know, but I spent what I saved on CD's and doubled my music library.

Back to pens, if I was to take a gold nugget shaped like a dogs turd, drilled it out to take a refill, and glued some diamonds on the side, would anybody consider this pen to be " high end " ? I certainly wouldnt.

I would! Especially if you did a good job at it and I'm pretty particular. If you did a "great" job in the workshop it would be at the high end of workmanship and since it would be of precious intrinsics it would be at the high end of my bank account, if not over.

There are at least three major aspects to "high end" for me:
1) quality in materials
2) quality in workmanship
3) value

All three of those are debatable as to what parts of each, or none, or the whole make a rat's ass to any individual.

All in the fun of the discussion ...

Cheers,
Rich

 

[Smitty37]

To me "high end" implies something at the expensive end of the market, and it also implies good quality, whether that quality is actual or perceived, is variable from product to product.

About 10 years ago, I was in the market for some new stereo gear, I had my heart set on a "high end " European brand that I always considered one of the best.
The store owner actaully talked me out of buying that brand and sold me the equivelent bits made by Yamaha at about half the price because in his experience the Yamaha gear was better quality.
I was a little dissapointed at first because I didnt get my "high end " stereo, but 10 years on, the Yamaha is still thumping out the tunes, would the other one be still performing ? I dont know, but I spent what I saved on CD's and doubled my music library.

Back to pens, if I was to take a gold nugget shaped like a dogs turd, drilled it out to take a refill, and glued some diamonds on the side, would anybody consider this pen to be " high end " ? I certainly wouldnt.

They would probably auction it off at Christies...definately high end.

 

[Smitty37]

High End by any definition. From the pictures you can't support your statement. In Addition they are made by companies well known internationally for providing collectors with high end pens.

Perhaps you are correct. If what you say is indeed true then you could easily be able to tell me the company that makes the feed assembly for those 2 images you posted. After-all they are well known internationally and provide high end, no?

Who cares....what I would say is that they didn't get th2 $2.00 ones from Rizheng. My guess is they were hand made and hand tuned by a Master Craftsman and that either of those pens will write as smoothly as any pen ever made,