Banksia Porn!

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Bob Wemm

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I blew the end out of mine today, i had sharp tools and i went slow, kept adding ca to it. Oh well its going to be a key chain now. Good thing i have 5 more. I really like this blank..
Mike

Hi Mike,

Bugger...! not you too...!:frown:

You know, I'm expecting a lot of complains from people that these last 2 months decided to by 10 blanks at the time, that I don't know and I'm afraid, they are not ready for these sort of blanks and that are going to have troubles when they handle these as normal solid wood or full acrylic blanks.

If I ask what skills/experience they have as penturners, "they" get offended and upset so, I stop asking and sending them here to see the tutorials and other info I have about these blanks but, I doubt that half of them even bothered, and that, I can't do anything about it.

I realised too late that, I was not doing myself any favours buy allowing such orders sizes and in quick succession, not knowing where 2/3 of them went (turners skill), reason why I stop making them and remove the listing from my eBay store.

Sure, I would like to know that after years of trying to promote and demonstrated how different and special pens made with these blanks can be/look, and the fact that people all over the world were having the chance to have a go and see what my front yard Banksia Hairy pods trees produce however, I never intended to see these blanks been blowing apart/destroyed, regardless of the reasons, is my work after all, and I'm proud of it...!

One of the very first "things"/advice that I said/gave was that, even with the sharpest of tools, the risk of having a catch is very real and that would mean the blanks destruction in 70% of cases, the very reason what I "introduced" what I called the "Flap disc system" or anything that works based on the same principle, as the most effective way to go from square to final size/shape, just shy of the final hand sanding process/step.

I wish that I had a better recommendation for the drilling than the one I shown on my Tutorial, (tapping the blank and CA soaking inside the hole), but apart from that, I don't have yet, a better suggestion.

Now, I made some pens myself from these same blanks, all from the raw pods cast, I'm yet to make a pen with the stabilised ones as such but, I have turned a few samples as tests so, I have and understanding of how fragile they can be. There will be cases where, a blank was destroyed and nothing anyone could have done to avoid it, one of the most common is a bad catch (everyone get those) and or, a large drill bit grab the inside of the blank and twist/snap it badly. In both cases, the risk could have been minimised by following some principles but, will be always the accidental OOPS that is just that, an accident...!

I always like to see the pics of the damaged/destroyed blanks and see better what happened, sometimes they can be fixed, other times not so much. Being 100% successful is not as easy as one may think, there will be always some lost blanks that in my view are the price to learn and to improve ones skills. Giving up because is difficult, is never the solution and while the bank replacement cost is now a little higher than before, is not the end of the world and not something that will cost you hundreds of dollars to replace so, I still believe that is well worth it when that blanks lets you get to the finished product and allow you to "show-case" a very unique pen, indeed...!

So, you may have lost half of the blank, I'm sure you learn something, huh...???:biggrin:

Good luck...!

Cheers
George

George, don't know if this is the right thing to do but I have to classify myself as a VERY INEXPERIENCED PEN turner. As you know I have made two pens with these blanks, raw resin, and no stabilisation.
I followed your instructions and had a minor blow-out with the first one which I repaired with a bit of ebony. The second one finished without a drama. So I reckon if I can do it, then anyone should be able to, as long as they follow your tutorial.
Bob.
 

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robutacion

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Mike,

I didn't seen it as a complaint, I was disappointed that you had problems with them, already...!

You are right, they are quite something, shame that they can be so fragile/fiddly/demanding...!:frown:

Now, Ed...!

I don't need to make that test, I done it long ago and multiple times at different temps and what I found is that, is a good reason why the manufacturer recommends the 2% as the ideal ratio, Polyester is always more brittle than the Alumilite/Polyurethane so, what I found was that, in average temps as suggest on the product instructions, reducing considerably the amount of hardener, results in the blanks being soft and sticky for many days, in fact, and depending with what the resin was mixed with, some blanks still bleed badly after 1 week for casting, the Banksia Hairy pods being one of the worse to do that, I had them for over 2 weeks, without being able to sand and finish then, the resin was still coming out soft.

What this causes is that, the pressure that was used to compress the resin into all areas of the blanks, is lost when the molds are removed from the pressure pot, is important that the resin sets and seals the blanks while under pressure, I like to do the castings late afternoon/evening as the last thing for the days work about 7:00pm, the molds are not removed from the pressure pot until about 10 to 11:00 am the next day so about 15 hours under pressure.

Using less hardener, the resin just doesn't react/set as it was made to, I tried to maintain the molds in the pressure pot under constant 100 PSI pressure, checking every 24 hours, without enough hardener, half or even 2/3 in the winter, I had then staying the in pot the whole week, before they would stop being sticky and start bleeding with minutes of opening the pressure pot.

The last thing we want is for the resin to bleed out of the blank and created empty pockets or in the case of the Hairy pods, to allow the resin to bleed out from the soft hairs and velvet surroundings, is bad enough when the resin sets within the blank, losing that resin, doesn't leave much holding the blanks together...!

There are many types of resin and different polyester compositions, I know this resin quite well, and it is the only one I can get around here so, I have to adapt and accept the manufacturer recommendations as an accurate guide however, and buying from the same supplier since day one, I have had batches that react slightly different is setting times, amount of hardener required, resin viscosity and hardener batches that are stronger than others so, there are always small variations that I got used to identify after a long and large exposure to the product...!

Now, you got me curious about the possibility to make a kitless pen out of these blanks, the exact ones you and everyone else got, the raw pod ones so, I just recently got 9 full blanks and 2 bits of one, returned for a full refund, all the way from the UK. In that box I had what was sent as to what was left from 1 blanks that was worked on. The sizes are a little intriguing so I reckon, someone was trying to make fishing rod handles out of them, that after a provided all the links to all tutorials and so on, I was told that, "was too much work, it wasn't worth it".

Anyway, I have attached the 2 small pieces I received as requested, one was cut to size (his size) but nor worked on, the other was the piece that he worked on and made him to decided, they were no good...!

Is not really important but, you can see how the poor blank piece was butchered, just to drill a small diameter hole in it, you make your judgements...!

The other piece though, I though is use it to demonstrated that, yes, you can cut threads in these blanks, even if not stabilised, I used the 5 cup CA to replace what the Cactus Juice would do and use it also to maintain the blank strength and integrity, right to the end.

This doesn't mean that the work was a delicate one however, I used only one size drill bit to drill the hole required for a set of 12mmx1.5 taps
I never picked the side for each end, you can see that, one end has the blank's identification which means, half is pod the other half is the pod's hairs and resin so, I could have easily done it the other way around, it wouldn't matter to me...!

The point of this demonstration is that, yes, is possible to cut threads, it is possible to make a full kitless pen out of these and they don't have to be stabilised but it would help however, I don't think these blanks are "ideal" for such way/style of making pens...!

I had done many tests with these blanks, I never though in cutting threads on them but, I have only used that small piece that was returned as no good, with its twin half not looking that good at all, I wasn't going to waste a full blank for this test but, I have many samples that I rounded that I could easily use if I didn't have this small bit.

The only thing I didn't have was the end tap to cut the inner thread right to the bottom, my sets only comes with the start taps, no intermedium no bottom taps so, I wasn't able to cut the threads properly on the female piece/end...!

I was going to separated both ends and screw them together, as I know they would work perfectly but, I was running out of blank to do much more, separating the 2 pieces would probably spoil the whole thing so, I left in as one piece, that is more than sufficient for what I have to say...!

Enjoy and reflect...!:wink::biggrin:

PS: I apologise for some of the quality of the pics, I didn't realise they weren't right only after I downloaded them into my computer.

Cheers
George
 

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robutacion

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Bob Wemm;1612307 George said:
VERY INEXPERIENCED PEN turner[/B]. As you know I have made two pens with these blanks, raw resin, and no stabilisation.
I followed your instructions and had a minor blow-out with the first one which I repaired with a bit of ebony. The second one finished without a drama. So I reckon if I can do it, then anyone should be able to, as long as they follow your tutorial.
Bob.

G'day Bob,

You obviously finished with your Festive Season holiday so, welcome back to the sawdust, mate.

Hey, I'm glad you joined in, I knew that you have used some these blanks successfully, as I know of a few others but, is not my place to bring someone else's work into this thread, everyone is most welcome to participate, particularly if is someone that had experienced these "beasts"...!:wink::biggrin:

Sure, not every blank will endup as a pen but, I hope that most will...!:)

After all, you are a "pro" mate, you should do these things with your eyes closed and your hands tied up behind your back, huh...??:eek::biggrin:

Cheers
George
 

robutacion

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What is 5 cup/cps CA...???

Hi folks,

I was asked what the 5 cup/cps CA I keep mentioning, is so, I decided to explain it here for everyone's benefit...!

The 5 cup CA I keep mentioning, is the thinnest viscosity made by EzBond, the thinnest I ever seen and know, the only only capable of penetrating material and no other, due to is super thin viscosity.

I use about 20x 16oz bottles of it every year, apart from the 50 cup as thin, 300 cup as medium and 700 cup as thick. I originally was buying this glue and accelerator from Monty, but since he sold his business, I had to find another supplier from my glues and the accelerator that I also use in large quantities.

I use a lot of this 5 cup CA, almost all my Resifills are coated/soaked with this CA on its 4 faces, allowing any gaps, cracks or separation to be filled and make it all stable and strong/solid

"Cups" or "cps" is the term of measure used for determining the CA viscosity.

Is a huge difference in between using what other brands call "thin" CA and this 5 cup from E-ZBond, believe me, get also used to start using the accelerator they sell, I would be lost without is as I can soak, wait a couple of minutes and as soon as I see it soaked I spray it with accelerator and in seconds you are ready to continue working on it, otherwise you have to wait a long time to let is harden.

Another very important details is that, in colder places, the accelerator is not enough, particularly in a very thick layer or a deep soaking was performed, the accelerator may set the surface but will not reach under all that CA unless you use a artificial way to apply heat into the piece. I do it by using a heat gun, on its max, heat setting and keep the heat gun about 1' 1/2 from the piece, the ideal temp you require is 60°Celsius so, the way you determine that is by, putting your hand in front of the heat gun for 2' away and bring it closer until you feel hot but just bearable, that is the 60°C limit, any closer and you will be burning the piece/glue. You should also not keep the heat gun standing in one place and point directly at the blank, you need to swing the heat gun side to side to avoid localised heating only...!

I hope this helps...!

PS: Yes, the 5 cup CA is my secret weapon...!:wink::biggrin:

Cheers
George
 
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robutacion

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Workable...?, yes however, I would use a darker brown and I'm not sure in the "hammered" paint, is not going to become a little too thick, and force you to have to drill a hole bigger than what the kit barrel allowance thickness, will allow, what I mean is, you may have not enough "meat" in the barrel to drill a very oversized hole.

The idea of the hammered paint, is a good one, for the effects it will produce on semi transparent materials however with tube, primed and then coated with this paint, it may become a problem, if you have plenty to work with, then the idea is a good one...!

Cheers
George
 
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edstreet

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No longer confused....
About half the tube is highly transparent so I figured the hammered look would work good. That's the darkest I could find. I did put it on very thin and no need to bore out the hole any for that as it fits in there fine with the 2 layers.
 

robutacion

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A tube develops from epoxy. Anyone want to guess which kit this is going onto? :)

What do you mean with "a tube develops from epoxy"...???

I need to experiment on these blanks gluing a brass tube the has been roughed out and then covered with 5 minute epoxy and some Pearlex dark brown colour (there have various), I reckon I can do all those steps in one single step and have a good colour coverage.

I also, when I want to achieve a sharp a clear colour coming from the painted tube, I polish the hole inside with wet & dry sand paper, just a very different effect from colour coming through unpolished resin...!

These are simply options, some people do them others don't and that is all fine by me...!

I can see the hammered paint colour showing in parts of that blank but, what I can't work out is why that blank seem to have had and extension added on the left end size, why is it a lot darker and has that groove in between the 2 colours...???

Cheers
George
 

edstreet

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No longer confused....
The length of the tube is way longer than needed. The cut line indicates where it will be chopped then trimmed to size. The white marks is more closer to where it be.

The hammered effect did clear the opening with minimal effort. I used my E-120HP epoxy on the tube which means that tube is not coming out, period.

Also the epoxy is not dry and the tube was moved after the shot was taken.
 

edstreet

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No longer confused....
Perhaps this is more like what you were expecting?

I trimmed the ends and did some clean up on the outside. Sanded some but not that much, the shop is -11C right now and the propane heater that I use ran dry.

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BigE

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"Cups" or "cps" is the term of measure used for determining the CA viscosity.

"CPS" stands for centipoises, which (as George indicates) is a scientific measurement for viscosity. Maybe "CUPS" is just the way it is pronounced?

To put this in perspective, it is based on the viscosity of water, which is 1 cps.

-Steve

Side note: The M5T CA Glue from Mercury Adhesives is also 5cps.
 

robutacion

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"Cups" or "cps" is the term of measure used for determining the CA viscosity.

"CPS" stands for centipoises, which (as George indicates) is a scientific measurement for viscosity. Maybe "CUPS" is just the way it is pronounced?

To put this in perspective, it is based on the viscosity of water, which is 1 cps.

-Steve

Side note: The M5T CA Glue from Mercury Adhesives is also 5cps.

G'day Steve,

Yes, that is what I meant and my 'Cup" thing, may not even exist in the world of CA viscosities, I started to use that term many years ago and some how it stuck with me, instead of using CPS...!

I was convinced that this 5 cps CA was thinner than water, I see it soak into wood faster than water, is like a magma it soaks and goes, goes deep very fast...!

Like I said, I use litres of this super thin CA and lots of accelerator to get things moving/drying fast, I only wish that I could find the same viscosity in a non toxic form, I wonder if the one sold as having no odder is that much safer to the lungs...??

I would be paying twice as much for a supper thin CA that wouldn't affect my health, as much as the normal stuff does. I like the E-ZBond products and they certainly get a fair share of my money however, when I read what you said about this same viscosity CA be available at other vendors, I had a look and I didn't like the prices they charge.

Buying 1x16oz bottle of M5T CA from an Australia supplier, I would have to pay $61.08 (free shipping within Australia) however I can buy a 16oz O-ZBond CA for $28.95 + shipping, from overseas (USA). I can get a large flat rate box for $84 that will carry 16 of these 16oz bottles, making it $5.25 per bottle in shipping.

I can also buy a medium flat rate box for $60.00 filled with 16x8oz bottles from the O-ZBond brand for $16.50 each, making the freight cost of $3.75 per bottle so, and unless these other CA's brands are non-toxic, I couldn't justify paying such prices for such a large volume of usage.

Nevertheless, I may stick to a Devil I know than a Devil I don't know, until I find something that is safer and a cost that will not triple what the one I use now...!

Cheers
George
 
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BigE

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I know what you mean about it soaking into wood fast. I was just talking to Ed the other day about stabilizing a super punky piece and ended up gluing my bushings in place so badly I had to heat them up to get them to release.

The Mercury adhesives glue is made in the USA, so no surprise it is expensive in the land down under. We haven't quite figured out how to ship things as cheaply as other countries. A 2 oz bottle is about $6, and a 16 oz bottle is about $22. Cheaper than some, more expensive than others, but it suits my needs.

I can't stand the smell of CA glue curing. It really hurts my eyes especially. I turn on my dust collector and place a hose near where I'm gluing. Never had a problem with it since I started doing that.

Sorry to hijack your thread, Ed.
 

robutacion

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Well, I though your post was most appropriate, we were discussing the 5 cup CA, (as I call it) and its capabilities, is also my understanding that other members didn't know what I meant about the 5 cup CA, that is in fact the secret of many of my successes.

Was only I was questioned about the meaning of my "5 cup CA" that I realise that I need to explain it and also make sure other turners are aware of its many uses and in many cases the only thing that will stand in between failure and success.

Something this important, needs to be shared with everyone so, I didn't know nor a single member or anyone else I can recall, that has ever mention any other CA brand that offers such a super thin viscosity. Most people use the 50cps as the thin CA and they believe that is the thinnest they can get and sometimes I see their frustration when I mentioned the used of thin CA to resolve the problem, without making any observations about the thin CA I was trying to suggest and off-course, the results were never satisfactory and 50cps CA hasn't have the soaking capabilities of the 5cps, nor even close...!

So yes, you provided us with another alternative for the purchase of this super thin CA, for the USA and or Canadian Folks and that can only be a positive participation and not an "hijack" as you called it, I just don't like that word, at all...!

Cheers
George
 

edstreet

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No longer confused....
One thing of note. I used the wrong bottle of epoxy when I put in the tube. I should have used CL instead I grabbed the HP. CL dries clear while HP is a cream color.

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See the difference in the bottle? Yea, learn to look better next time :)


Tho not terrible it does present a good option to evaluate how my tube insertion method holds up under contrast. The tube is painted and the epoxy is a contrasting color.
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We can see some spots where the epoxy is thin and others it's thick. This happens to be a gap filling epoxy.

Also goes to show that yes it is very viable and possible to color the epoxy and not paint the tube or the blank, some type of pigment based or even food coloring perhaps.

Overall I think this has been a good test and a good visual show as to what these blanks are like and how best to work them. Perhaps this would reduce problems and avoid mistakes for others as we have documented a good range of topics on this thread :)
 

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robutacion

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Hum Ed, that is just horrible...! that epoxy did certainly spoil everything for a tube that was painted brown, sorry...!

It would be good to use kits that do have some "meat" left on the barrel, that would be a benefit for sure and as I mentioned, a dark brown powder colour in the clear epoxy may just be sufficient however, in cases where I want the colour I painted the tube or on reverse painting, to show sharp/clear through the clear resin, I drill the hole 1mm smaller and then polish the hole inside with wet and dry sand paper, going through the grits until you see crystal clear, that is when paints such as the hammered paints do a phenomenal job.

I may have to do one myself to exemplify and demonstrate the differences...!

Sure, every piece of information provided on this thread, can only be a help to those thinking and work with these blanks, out tests show only a few details/examples of the possibilities, there are many more...!

Cheers
George
 

robutacion

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Selecting the colour for tube painting...!

Hi peoples,

I have had these pics and samples taken weeks ago, that I got convinced I had already posted it here but obviously, I should have done it all on my sleep and while in Gaga land, or something...!


Anyway, what I wanted to show you all, is a system that I worked out, helps to decide what colour to paint a tube with or reverse paint the blank, depending on what you are working on that you known, will be too transparent.

In this cases and because the main issue in this thread is the Banksia Hairy pod Resifill blanks, I use a off cut I had to demonstrate what the system is about.

There is no point is saying much more as anyone can see that I use for colours, these are cheap and anyone with kids will have a good supply of empty or dry of these markers, no doubt...!

Just a thought...!

Cheers
George
 

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robutacion

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Can we say snow globe?

Sure Ed, you can call it that, I never though of it but, its the same principle as is clear casting with only one different, snow globes can move, swirls and offer many other effects while clear casting, everything is a still, as a "door nail", as we say here...!:biggrin:

Interestingly I was looking for examples of snow globes and I found one that I didn't expect, its funny and smart so, don't get all offended with it, its only a joke, right...??? here

PS: Hey, that only a snow globe, huh...???:wink::)

Cheers
George
 

edstreet

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No longer confused....
you know what would be interesting? Use a clear tube then rig up some type of mini light inside the tube, changing colors by touch, heat, or whatever.
 
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