jonathan_vest
Member
i need to add a jowo #6 plug tap to my order.
Triple Start Tap & Die Group Buy 2017
- Thread starter eharri446
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eharri446
Member
Update:
I will start sending out the updated spreadsheets with the final pricing this week.
Here is where we stand for the bottoming taps:
M14 & M13 need 5 more each to get to the 12+ pricing
Bock #5 we need 4, Bock #6 we need 3, JOWO #5 we need 6 and JOWO #6 we need 3. This will get us to the 10+ pricing which is as low as we can get.
I will start sending out the updated spreadsheets with the final pricing this week.
Here is where we stand for the bottoming taps:
M14 & M13 need 5 more each to get to the 12+ pricing
Bock #5 we need 4, Bock #6 we need 3, JOWO #5 we need 6 and JOWO #6 we need 3. This will get us to the 10+ pricing which is as low as we can get.
tdsmart
Member
I'm very late to the party, but I've finally convinced myself I need to take advantage of this. Thanks for doing this and extending the deadline. I will send you a PM and the spreadsheet in a moment. I will accept the additional full value insurance.
Chiller Killer
Member
Super excited about this
eharri446
Member
I am updating the final prices on all of the spreadsheets or whatever mean was used to place your orders and my goal is to have them out by the beginning of next week.
Once I get all of the payments in, I can place the order with the vendor. Because some of the work is done in Europe and some in the U.S. I will not know the final delivery time frame until the order is submitted.
Once I know that I will update the post with that information.
Once I get all of the payments in, I can place the order with the vendor. Because some of the work is done in Europe and some in the U.S. I will not know the final delivery time frame until the order is submitted.
Once I know that I will update the post with that information.
Chiller Killer
Member
Thank you again for all your work
eharri446
Member
Is there anyone who could purchase a M14X.8 bottoming tap, a M13X.8 bottoming tap, a Bock#5 bottoming tap, or a JOWO #5 bottoming tap.
We need 5 M14 x .8 bottoming taps to get from $83.25 to $55.00 which would save $28.25.
We need 5 M13 x .8 bottoming taps to get from $80.75 to $48.90 which would save $31.85.
We need 1 Bock #5 bottoming tap to get from $39.00 to $23.80 which would save $15.20.
We need 2 JOWO #5 bottoming tap to get from $36.80 to $22.60 which would save $14.20.
If anyone is interested let me know via PM.
We need 5 M14 x .8 bottoming taps to get from $83.25 to $55.00 which would save $28.25.
We need 5 M13 x .8 bottoming taps to get from $80.75 to $48.90 which would save $31.85.
We need 1 Bock #5 bottoming tap to get from $39.00 to $23.80 which would save $15.20.
We need 2 JOWO #5 bottoming tap to get from $36.80 to $22.60 which would save $14.20.
If anyone is interested let me know via PM.
Gregory Hardy
Member
I have sent the spreadsheet back...
- 12x.8 standard (non-bottoming) tap, triple-lead
- 12x.8 tap, triple-lead
Please insure.
Thanks a million for supporting the group with this effort.
Best regards -
- Greg
- 12x.8 standard (non-bottoming) tap, triple-lead
- 12x.8 tap, triple-lead
Please insure.
Thanks a million for supporting the group with this effort.
Best regards -
- Greg
duncsuss
Member
beck3906
Member
I'll take a bock #5 bottoming tap
Gregory Hardy
Member
OMG
YES, please and thank you. I think my Excel spreadsheet reflected the correct order...but I want a triple lead tap AND die, and I do NOT want a bottoming tap - just a standard one. (Oh, damn...I just want my cap to thread onto my barrel. Story of the lives of men everywhere, I suppose.)
Thanks for catching that!
YES, please and thank you. I think my Excel spreadsheet reflected the correct order...but I want a triple lead tap AND die, and I do NOT want a bottoming tap - just a standard one. (Oh, damn...I just want my cap to thread onto my barrel. Story of the lives of men everywhere, I suppose.)
Thanks for catching that!
Gregory Hardy
Member
Burb
Member
After ordering some of these tap/die sets, I will likely need specific drill sizes for each as well. Would someone care to chime who has the knowledge of what is the best drill size for each off these:
- M14 X .08 Tap
- M13 X .08 Tap
- M12 X .08 Tap
- M11 X .08 Tap
- Bock #5 Tap
- Bock #6 Tap
- JOWO #5 Tap
- JOWO #6 Tap
Thank you.
- M14 X .08 Tap
- M13 X .08 Tap
- M12 X .08 Tap
- M11 X .08 Tap
- Bock #5 Tap
- Bock #6 Tap
- JOWO #5 Tap
- JOWO #6 Tap
Thank you.
eharri446
Member
According to information that I found on the web here are the drill sizes that you will need:
M14 - M13.2
M13 - M12.2
M12 - M11.2
M11 - M10.2
Bock #5 - M5.8 or letter 'A'
Bock #6 - M7.3
Jowo #5 - M6
Jowo #6 - M9.9
If someone else knows of different sizes, please post that information.
M14 - M13.2
M13 - M12.2
M12 - M11.2
M11 - M10.2
Bock #5 - M5.8 or letter 'A'
Bock #6 - M7.3
Jowo #5 - M6
Jowo #6 - M9.9
If someone else knows of different sizes, please post that information.
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stuckinohio
Member
Bock #5 is finicky. Some people say letter A and Beaufort says 6mm because there is an area right before the threads that is slightly larger which keeps the housing from threading in. I'm stifling with it right now...
eharri446
Member
I found a website which had a calculator for determining the correct drill size. I entered the tap size and the thread pitch and that was what I entered for the Bock #5.
I have also seen people on YouTube using a letter 'A' bit for the Bock #5.
The M5.8 drill bit is equal to .232 and the letter 'A' is equal to .234, according to a metric to inches calculator I use fairly often you could use a 15/64 drill bit as well.
Based on those numbers, the letter 'A' drills a hole that is .002 inches larger.
So, based on that information I updated the sizes I posted to make it either a metric size or a letter bit size.
I am going to do some more research and see if I can get a list of drill bits that would not require someone to purchase new drill bits unless they have too.
I have also seen people on YouTube using a letter 'A' bit for the Bock #5.
The M5.8 drill bit is equal to .232 and the letter 'A' is equal to .234, according to a metric to inches calculator I use fairly often you could use a 15/64 drill bit as well.
Based on those numbers, the letter 'A' drills a hole that is .002 inches larger.
So, based on that information I updated the sizes I posted to make it either a metric size or a letter bit size.
I am going to do some more research and see if I can get a list of drill bits that would not require someone to purchase new drill bits unless they have too.
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eharri446
Member
Here is an updated list of drill sizes. Hopefully this will help everyone.
Drill Bits
Tap Metric Decimal Fraction
M14X.8 M13.2 0.519 33/64
M13X.8 M12.2 0.480 31/64
M12X.8 M11.2 0.440 7/16
M11X.8 M10.2 0.401 13/32
Bock #5 (M6.4x0.6) M5.8 0.228 15/64
Bock #6 (M7.9x0.6) M7.3 0.287 9/32
JOWO #5 (M6.5x0.5) M6 0.236 15/64
JOWO #6 (M7.4x0.5) M6.9 0.271 17/64
Drill Bits
Tap Metric Decimal Fraction
M14X.8 M13.2 0.519 33/64
M13X.8 M12.2 0.480 31/64
M12X.8 M11.2 0.440 7/16
M11X.8 M10.2 0.401 13/32
Bock #5 (M6.4x0.6) M5.8 0.228 15/64
Bock #6 (M7.9x0.6) M7.3 0.287 9/32
JOWO #5 (M6.5x0.5) M6 0.236 15/64
JOWO #6 (M7.4x0.5) M6.9 0.271 17/64
Burb
Member
Thank you VERY much for your efforts!! I don't need all of these (Not getting all sizes), but I'm sure others will benefit from this info. Since I'm looking at placing an Amazon order today for a couple of things, I may try to get some of these drill bits as well.
eharri446
Member
If you can not get the metric drills from amazon try victornet.com. That is where I ordered mine from.
Burb
Member
Since victor net seems like much easier to find and I can get all from same vendor, I may just go there. Which would you suggest:
- Carbide, TiN, Cobalt, Economy,
- Jobber, Long, or standard length
- OTHER??
Thanks.
eharri446
Member
I order their jobber bits. Since the most that we will be drilling will be plastics of some type or another. (Acrylics, Casein, Ebonite, Polyester Resin, Liquid Diamond, etc...) I do not think that I would go with anything but the jobber bits.
However, others may have different opinions on what type are best. My concern was the cost of the drill bits.
However, others may have different opinions on what type are best. My concern was the cost of the drill bits.
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I can quite see why a group buy is an attractive proposition - everyone gets some cheap gear. Win Win - to a point. The only problem is that if everything were always bought on that basis, in the end you would ultimately not have specialists around any longer, who are the very people who you turn to for advice and information, and for all the little bits and pieces you can't source in a group buy.
No - this is not a gripe, I'm just saying, - and in the interest of good will I will tell you that this particular specialist KNOWS that if you use a letter A or a 5.8 for a Bock #5, it will not fit. As as already been mentioned by someone who has clearly been on the Beaufort Ink website, where there is a good explanation as to why, despite the perceived wisdom when it comes to calculating drill sizes, a Bock size 5 requires a 6mm drill.
Bock are German - they don't do fractions of an inch in Germany, they do metric. The difference between 6mm and Letter A is 0.06mm, which I'm afraid is the difference between fitting and not fitting.
No - this is not a gripe, I'm just saying, - and in the interest of good will I will tell you that this particular specialist KNOWS that if you use a letter A or a 5.8 for a Bock #5, it will not fit. As as already been mentioned by someone who has clearly been on the Beaufort Ink website, where there is a good explanation as to why, despite the perceived wisdom when it comes to calculating drill sizes, a Bock size 5 requires a 6mm drill.
Bock are German - they don't do fractions of an inch in Germany, they do metric. The difference between 6mm and Letter A is 0.06mm, which I'm afraid is the difference between fitting and not fitting.
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eharri446
Member
Thanks for the clarification. I based my comments on what was mention on the Beaufort Ink website where it showed the taps.
For my information, where can I find the information that you are referring to?
Thanks for clarifying this for the group.
For my information, where can I find the information that you are referring to?
Thanks for clarifying this for the group.
stuckinohio
Member
Half way down the page where the taps for the Bock #5 housings are you will see a link to download the drawing and explanation of what size to drill and why.
Thread taps for Bock nibs
stuckinohio
Member
FYI, anyone that hasn't visited Beaufort Ink's website needs to. As far as I can tell, he has the best selection of #5 Bock nibs, feeds and housings. Well, really Bock #5 and#6 nibs. And he has both the kit specific housings and the standard Bock housings. Along with a great selection of triple start taps and dies in stock, which no one else has.
He is also very helpful with information and shipping. I have purchased several taps, dies and pen kits from him. Shipping is pretty fast and not too expensive.
Phil,
With that said, I simply can't afford to buy the rest of the taps and dies from Beaufort, so I am getting them from this group buy. I suspect you'll find that people will still buy from you because group buys don't come along every day, or every year for that matter! And no, these aren't Tapco, but I suspect they will hold up to the use I will subject them to.
Please don't take offense to this group buy. We gotta save money every where we can. Specially with kitless pens. Every time I turn around I need another tap and die, drill bit or clip! I try to support all the vendors that support us, and I'll continue to support you.
eharri446
Member
I am planning to start sending out the Invoice copy of the spreadsheets tonight. I have one more price update to make to get the final total.
Having said that, is there anyone who can see their way to purchasing a M14 or M13 bottoming tap we need 5 of the M14 and 4 of the M13 to get down to the next to the lowest price for these taps.
If anyone wants to do this, please send me a PM as soon as possible. Once I get the Invoice spreadsheets sent out that will be the end of the changes.
If anyone has already made payments, and the prices change, I will refund the difference on the group buy is completed.
I appreciate all of the support that I have received while doing this group buy. This has been one of the most challenging things I have undertaken in many years.
Having said that, is there anyone who can see their way to purchasing a M14 or M13 bottoming tap we need 5 of the M14 and 4 of the M13 to get down to the next to the lowest price for these taps.
If anyone wants to do this, please send me a PM as soon as possible. Once I get the Invoice spreadsheets sent out that will be the end of the changes.
If anyone has already made payments, and the prices change, I will refund the difference on the group buy is completed.
I appreciate all of the support that I have received while doing this group buy. This has been one of the most challenging things I have undertaken in many years.
Skeleton2014
Member
I've already ordered one of everything. I know I originally said I would commit if prices were for the 12 qty but, after second thought, I'm okay with prices as they stand. If you don't get the M13 and M14 bottoming quantities down, I hope they don't get cancelled. Again, I'm prepared to go with prices for all the taps and dies as they end up.
Thanks, Jeff
PS: You took on a daunting job doing this group buy... Probably one of the most complex I've seen since joining IAP. We really appreciate your work on this!!!
Thanks, Jeff
PS: You took on a daunting job doing this group buy... Probably one of the most complex I've seen since joining IAP. We really appreciate your work on this!!!
eharri446
Member
Thanks for the kudos. However, if it were not for the help of the members, it would not have gotten off of the ground.
jonathan_vest
Member
okay i need to add a bock number 5 plug tap to my order also. sorry for being a pain!
eharri446
Member
Jonathan,
I already had you down for one of them. Do you mean a #6 plug tap instead?
I already had you down for one of them. Do you mean a #6 plug tap instead?
jonathan_vest
Member
no i am sorry, i just had to go out and check what i had already. if the bock #5 is already on there then i am good.
Lewis - there are no hard feelings I assure you, and I did say in my post that it wasn't a gripe - I was simply making the point that's all.
It may be the case that some of the faceless larger dealers of all things pen and pen kit don't really care too much about their customers as long as they get the money, but smaller dealers and specialist DO tend to care about their customers, and we ourselves like to work with them and support them, not just make a fast buck.
In some group buys, not necessarily here I hasten to add, there is sometimes a motive to do it to spite the dealers and specialists, and one recent one in particular, elsewhere on the internet, would actually have got a better price if they had involved me in the buy, which I offered to do. None the less, many of those involved still then want to come to me for free advise.
It's a big world, and I assure you that early retirement is not brought about by selling triple lead taps and dies to pen makers, so I reiterate - there really are no hard feelings, and I look forward to maybe welcoming some of the participants of this group buy as customers when you need your nibs for your new pens.
It may be the case that some of the faceless larger dealers of all things pen and pen kit don't really care too much about their customers as long as they get the money, but smaller dealers and specialist DO tend to care about their customers, and we ourselves like to work with them and support them, not just make a fast buck.
In some group buys, not necessarily here I hasten to add, there is sometimes a motive to do it to spite the dealers and specialists, and one recent one in particular, elsewhere on the internet, would actually have got a better price if they had involved me in the buy, which I offered to do. None the less, many of those involved still then want to come to me for free advise.
It's a big world, and I assure you that early retirement is not brought about by selling triple lead taps and dies to pen makers, so I reiterate - there really are no hard feelings, and I look forward to maybe welcoming some of the participants of this group buy as customers when you need your nibs for your new pens.
Gregory Hardy
Member
"Make better pens. Make good pens. Keep making pens."
I want to thank all of those responsible for a "group buy" that allows pen makers to keep making pens, better pens, good pens.
I want to especially thank Phil Dart. The "free advice" he mentions is real advice, good advice, and given freely, because he wants people to make better pens, good pens. Moreover - from one guy who has only known Phil (digitally) for about two months, I sucked the very marrow out of this poor guy. His emails to help me - when he had little or nothing to gain - were the inspiration to "go kitless," and I have done so.
I propose that we all keep perspective. If you can get a deal on something, buy it. No one will chastise you for taking advantage of a deal. (Phil won't either. That's the man he is.) When you need good, high-quality advice, ask an expert. (Have I mentioned a guy named Phil?) Maybe we need to remember something: "We are all on the same team. The team makes pens so people will write."
I haven't known him long, but if I have a question, I am going to ask Mr. Dart. He's helpful. He'll still love us all if we buy some stuff somewhere else...but if you need good products specific to fine pen-making, take a look at Beaufort Ink. As a side note, I would respect his advice.. He seems to know some stuff. "Devil his due, right? Thanks, Phil, for your support of a very special group of really strange folks. "We are pen makers." ("We are CHEAP pen-makers, but pen-makers nonetheless!")
BTW, Phil - I am waiting ANXIOUSLY for my recent order. Mistral kit coming. I am going to make a beauty!
Keep the faith, friends. Make pens so people will write again.
Amen.
I want to thank all of those responsible for a "group buy" that allows pen makers to keep making pens, better pens, good pens.
I want to especially thank Phil Dart. The "free advice" he mentions is real advice, good advice, and given freely, because he wants people to make better pens, good pens. Moreover - from one guy who has only known Phil (digitally) for about two months, I sucked the very marrow out of this poor guy. His emails to help me - when he had little or nothing to gain - were the inspiration to "go kitless," and I have done so.
I propose that we all keep perspective. If you can get a deal on something, buy it. No one will chastise you for taking advantage of a deal. (Phil won't either. That's the man he is.) When you need good, high-quality advice, ask an expert. (Have I mentioned a guy named Phil?) Maybe we need to remember something: "We are all on the same team. The team makes pens so people will write."
I haven't known him long, but if I have a question, I am going to ask Mr. Dart. He's helpful. He'll still love us all if we buy some stuff somewhere else...but if you need good products specific to fine pen-making, take a look at Beaufort Ink. As a side note, I would respect his advice.. He seems to know some stuff. "Devil his due, right? Thanks, Phil, for your support of a very special group of really strange folks. "We are pen makers." ("We are CHEAP pen-makers, but pen-makers nonetheless!")
BTW, Phil - I am waiting ANXIOUSLY for my recent order. Mistral kit coming. I am going to make a beauty!
Keep the faith, friends. Make pens so people will write again.
Amen.
eharri446
Member
I have sent out the final invoices to everyone who I have received a spreadsheet from.
If you do not receive your invoice by 9:00 PM EST today, please send me an email and I will see if it did not send for some reason.
I have asked that all payments be in by 9/5/2017 so that I can get the order placed.
We have over 50 members participating in this group buy, and our order is currently setting at $15,233.90. We have ordered a total of 348 items in this buy.
I want to thank everyone for the patience with me as I worked through all of the trials in getting everything together to place our order.
Since I do not know how the vendor is going to package everything for shipment, I am planning of wrapping all of the taps and dies in foam sheet and placing them into a bubble wrap pouch. Then I will place them into the USPS Priority Mail small boxes for shipment. The two orders being sent to Canada will be using Priority Mail International small boxes and the one order going to the UK will be using the Priority Mail Express International padded envelope for shipping.
If you do not receive your invoice by 9:00 PM EST today, please send me an email and I will see if it did not send for some reason.
I have asked that all payments be in by 9/5/2017 so that I can get the order placed.
We have over 50 members participating in this group buy, and our order is currently setting at $15,233.90. We have ordered a total of 348 items in this buy.
I want to thank everyone for the patience with me as I worked through all of the trials in getting everything together to place our order.
Since I do not know how the vendor is going to package everything for shipment, I am planning of wrapping all of the taps and dies in foam sheet and placing them into a bubble wrap pouch. Then I will place them into the USPS Priority Mail small boxes for shipment. The two orders being sent to Canada will be using Priority Mail International small boxes and the one order going to the UK will be using the Priority Mail Express International padded envelope for shipping.
Burb
Member
My $$ has been sent. I am officially broke now!!!!
leehljp
Member Liaison
I have a Bock #5 plug tap listed on my sheet but I don't remember ordering that. Could it be that some one else ordered that?
Do I need a different spread sheet or just deduct that amount from my current order?
Thanks
eharri446
Member
If you signed up for the group buy and have not made your payment yet, I will be sending you an updated invoice reflecting the new prices and your amount due will be adjusted for those prices.
Once you get the updated invoice, please remit your payment via PayPal Friends & Family using the email address on your email.
Thanks
Once you get the updated invoice, please remit your payment via PayPal Friends & Family using the email address on your email.
Thanks
Burb
Member
I submitted my payment prior to the source change. Due to the price adjustments, I'd like to order additional bottoming bits. I emailed you the info. Let me know and I'll send the extra $$. Thank you.
Mark
www.MWWoodworx.com
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