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Old 03-23-2015, 02:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Penguin View Post

big difference between a retailor/customer sale and a group buy.

the group buy coordinator is not profiting from the sale and is only passing through costs to the participants.
In large part this is still true - but it is no longer an absolute.

Changes affecting CSUSA Group Buy Guidelines

That said, I believe that requiring insurance as part of the conditions of the buy (or a hold harmless waiver for the co-ordinator) is a good idea.

And IF paypal's rules allow F&F, I think that the coordinator might want to consider the number of participants he is having in the buy. If the number is small (10?), the extra work of hand typing out labels (F&F) might not be an issue. But if the number is larger, it can really be a bit of a job. In that case paypal's auto label feature might really nice to employ....Especially after spending a ton of hours un-boxing, sorting, and re packaging of hundreds or thousands of items.

FWIW

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Old 03-23-2015, 02:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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The question is not one of profit or profit motive. Or whether or not it is a business or individual doing the shipping. It's simply who is going to lose if the item paid for by PayPal or Credit Card does not get delivered.
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Old 03-23-2015, 02:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Smitty37 View Post
The question is not one of profit or profit motive. Or whether or not it is a business or individual doing the shipping. It's simply who is going to lose if the item paid for by PayPal or Credit Card does not get delivered.
and the group buy coordinator should not be the one that loses if the package is lost AND the recipient refused the insurance.
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Old 03-23-2015, 03:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty37 View Post
The question is not one of profit or profit motive. Or whether or not it is a business or individual doing the shipping. It's simply who is going to lose if the item paid for by PayPal or Credit Card does not get delivered.
and the group buy coordinator should not be the one that loses if the package is lost AND the recipient refused the insurance.
We don't disagree on that point. The operative question is whether or not the coordinator WILL lose. While I self insure in my business because it is obviously more profitable for me to do that I wouldn't recommend that for a coordinator. That is why I would make the insurance a part of the shipping cost - no option.
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Old 03-23-2015, 03:46 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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I have received a few PMs from a couple of people asking what liability a person running a GB would have should a package get lost in the mail and the recipient had opted not to purchase insurance. It was suggested that if payment was through PP and the package was shipped not using PP, that PP could refund the money from account of the person running the GB, but if it was shipped using PP and the address was confirmed in PP, that PP would support the sender.

I have also received several PMs concerning requiring the use Friends & Family so one will not have to pay a PP fee for GBs. One member has researched this and was informed by PP that for our purpose, this would be a correct usage of F&F. The only drawback I see to this is that the mailing address of the recipient is not automatically sent to the GB leader. Would you like to see F&F be added as a requirement for payment for Group Buys?

Please post any comments you may have on these items.
I'm the member that originally researched the F&F payment option with Paypal. The website description, and my phone conversation with their customer support person confirmed that what we're doing with the group buys qualifies for the use of that option.

I think the person running the GB should decide if F&F or the regular option is to be used for the buy. It should be one the other, not both within the same buy as that would introduce too much chance of mistakes and confusion. I've run several buys and have not used the Paypal address label feature so that wont be an issue for me if its not available with F&F option. That said, I haven't run a buy with 50 folks either, I might wish I had use of the Paypal address label feature if I did.

The person running the buy should NOT be responsible for lost/damaged packages or shipments as long as he/she can confirm that the package was shipped via a tracking#. The insurance option should always be offered, if someone chooses not to take it that's on them.
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Old 03-23-2015, 07:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
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Something to consider... I believe if you pay as a "Family or Friend" the person participating in the group buy is not covered by PayPal's "Purchase Protection". I don't mind paying the PayPal fees to the organizer of the group buy to ensure I have coverage... just like buying insurance on package deliveries.

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Old 03-23-2015, 08:07 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Great discussion. That's what I'm after.
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Old 03-24-2015, 04:03 AM   #18 (permalink)
 
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I asked Paypal over the phone as well about the payment option of friends and family. They said it was OK and not circumventing fees.

Of course, this was just a person on the phone and not necessarily a manager or perhaps an expert on the matter.

I explained in no uncertain terms what I was doing and they said friends and family is fine.

For what it's worth, I would not be opposed to requiring insurance. The way I see it, if you spend 300 dollars then you're going to be saving quite a bit of money, so "throwing away" some money on insurance doesn't come close to eating your savings.
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Old 03-24-2015, 11:37 AM   #19 (permalink)
 
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At least two of us have talked to Paypal customer service directly and got the same answer. At this point there does not seem to be any question that we would NOT be breaking any Paypal rules if we use the Friends & Family option for our group buy purchases. I think we can put that one to bed.

However, there still seems to be some questions about using the shipping label feature, as well as buyer/seller protections....maybe others. Maybe Mannie could compile a list of those questions, then we execute a plan to get the answers. I can't imagine that there would be more than five questions that really need answers. My thoughts would be first, to have someone address the specific questions we have with PayPal. Then, verify what we can by executing a transaction using the F&F option, and having the buyer and seller report their findings. Might seem like overkill but that would end the uncertainty. I'm willing to be the test buyer (money sender), someone familiar with using the Paypal labeling should be the seller. Obviously, I would expect the transaction to be reversed after the test.

Mannie should be the one to have final say if this is worthwhile, and to drive it if so.
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Old 03-24-2015, 11:43 AM   #20 (permalink)
 
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why pick that scab with Paypal?

they may decide to get rid of that option all together.
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