Sharpeening

[Nick]

Is it practical to touch up or sharpen the round ci3 using the Diamond credit card hones, by using the hone with the cutter on the flat side? Opinions?
Thank you

 

[plantman]

Is it practical to touch up or sharpen the round ci3 using the Diamond credit card hones, by using the hone with the cutter on the flat side? Opinions?
Thank you

Nick. It depends on what you consider sharp !! If you can shave the hairs off your arm, that's sharp. Hones are usualy ment to do just that, hone, not sharpen. They take off the microscopic curl or fingernail of a sharpened object. If you are going to sand your project, you don't need to have your tools that sharp. If you are going to plane or carve a surface and not sand or use a scraper on it, they need to be super sharp. You should be able to look at the edge of your tool and see no light reflection on it. Many people, including myself, will use the touch-up stones to renew an edge while working rather than take the time out to resharpen the tool completely. A realy realy sharp tool will have a polished edge that shines like a mirror. This is achieved by stropping on leather, as the barbers did with their razors, using light machine oil with rotten stone, or oil and pumas. Mirror finishes can also be obtained using a series of Water stones ending with 8,000 grit or higher. Jim S

 

[Nick]

Thank You very much for your reply, seems you were the only one that took the time to address my question.
Thank you very much.

 

[The Penguin]

I'm assuming your asking about sharpening a carbide cutter for a Easy Wood Tool?

yes, you can hit them with a diamond hone to freshen the edge.

place it on the hone upside down, then make a few strokes in a figure 8 motion.

not quite good as new - but it will do.

 

[low_48]

Is it practical to touch up or sharpen the round ci3 using the Diamond credit card hones, by using the hone with the cutter on the flat side? Opinions?
Thank you

Nick. It depends on what you consider sharp !! If you can shave the hairs off your arm, that's sharp. Hones are usualy ment to do just that, hone, not sharpen. They take off the microscopic curl or fingernail of a sharpened object. If you are going to sand your project, you don't need to have your tools that sharp. If you are going to plane or carve a surface and not sand or use a scraper on it, they need to be super sharp. You should be able to look at the edge of your tool and see no light reflection on it. Many people, including myself, will use the touch-up stones to renew an edge while working rather than take the time out to resharpen the tool completely. A realy realy sharp tool will have a polished edge that shines like a mirror. This is achieved by stropping on leather, as the barbers did with their razors, using light machine oil with rotten stone, or oil and pumas. Mirror finishes can also be obtained using a series of Water stones ending with 8,000 grit or higher. Jim S

You can strop carbide? Never heard of that unless you are using diamond paste. The products you mention won't touch carbide. Carbide will cut grooves in water stones nearly instantly. Pretty sure no one can shave with a carbide cutter either.

 

[plantman]

Is it practical to touch up or sharpen the round ci3 using the Diamond credit card hones, by using the hone with the cutter on the flat side? Opinions?
Thank you

Nick. It depends on what you consider sharp !! If you can shave the hairs off your arm, that's sharp. Hones are usualy ment to do just that, hone, not sharpen. They take off the microscopic curl or fingernail of a sharpened object. If you are going to sand your project, you don't need to have your tools that sharp. If you are going to plane or carve a surface and not sand or use a scraper on it, they need to be super sharp. You should be able to look at the edge of your tool and see no light reflection on it. Many people, including myself, will use the touch-up stones to renew an edge while working rather than take the time out to resharpen the tool completely. A realy realy sharp tool will have a polished edge that shines like a mirror. This is achieved by stropping on leather, as the barbers did with their razors, using light machine oil with rotten stone, or oil and pumias. Mirror finishes can also be obtained using a series of Water stones ending with 8,000 grit or higher. Jim S

You can strop carbide? Never heard of that unless you are using diamond paste. The products you mention won't touch carbide. Carbide will cut grooves in water stones nearly instantly. Pretty sure no one can shave with a carbide cutter either.

Carbide is a gereral name for many compounds, so let's just skip to the one we are interested in, Tungsten Carbide. This is an inorganic coumpound containing equal parts of tungsten and carbon, that appears as a fine gray power, but can be formed and pressed into shapes for use in abrasives, armor-piercing projectiles, industrial machines, and of course cutting tools amoung others. Tungsten carbide is twice as stiff as steel, with a Young's modulies of 550 GPA, and is denser than both steel and titanium.
Now, to answer your questions, can you strop carbide? Yes! Can you strop tungsten carbide? Yes! Can you sharpen tungsten carbide ? Yes! But, you will have to use cubic boron or diamond dust in the form of powers, compounds, pastes, wheels, or diamond inpregnated wetstones or inpregnated stainless steel bars. The credit card diamond hones will dress an edge, but I wouldn't consider sharpening the whole tool with it. Seems you aren't using the correct water stones in the propper manner. Any tool used improperly on a regular water stone will dig in, even a butter knife. I have watched lumber jacks shave with a full size axe, handel and all, made out of steel !! So I would think that if you can't shave with your carbide cutter, it can't be all that sharp !! I sharpen my carbide router and shaper bits, depending on size, with daimond files, hones, or a 8" X 3" diamond bench stone. In 50+ years of collecting and sharpening old tools, I have never found a need to own a carbide tipped tool other than the cutters mentioned above. I have never tried this, but I would think you could polish carbide with pumais and oil or kerosene, seeing it's volcanic glass. Jim S

 

[low_48]

Is it practical to touch up or sharpen the round ci3 using the Diamond credit card hones, by using the hone with the cutter on the flat side? Opinions?
Thank you

Nick. It depends on what you consider sharp !! If you can shave the hairs off your arm, that's sharp. Hones are usualy ment to do just that, hone, not sharpen. They take off the microscopic curl or fingernail of a sharpened object. If you are going to sand your project, you don't need to have your tools that sharp. If you are going to plane or carve a surface and not sand or use a scraper on it, they need to be super sharp. You should be able to look at the edge of your tool and see no light reflection on it. Many people, including myself, will use the touch-up stones to renew an edge while working rather than take the time out to resharpen the tool completely. A realy realy sharp tool will have a polished edge that shines like a mirror. This is achieved by stropping on leather, as the barbers did with their razors, using light machine oil with rotten stone, or oil and pumias. Mirror finishes can also be obtained using a series of Water stones ending with 8,000 grit or higher. Jim S

You can strop carbide? Never heard of that unless you are using diamond paste. The products you mention won't touch carbide. Carbide will cut grooves in water stones nearly instantly. Pretty sure no one can shave with a carbide cutter either.

Carbide is a gereral name for many compounds, so let's just skip to the one we are interested in, Tungsten Carbide. This is an inorganic coumpound containing equal parts of tungsten and carbon, that appears as a fine gray power, but can be formed and pressed into shapes for use in abrasives, armor-piercing projectiles, industrial machines, and of course cutting tools amoung others. Tungsten carbide is twice as stiff as steel, with a Young's modulies of 550 GPA, and is denser than both steel and titanium.
Now, to answer your questions, can you strop carbide? Yes! Can you strop tungsten carbide? Yes! Can you sharpen tungsten carbide ? Yes! But, you will have to use cubic boron or diamond dust in the form of powers, compounds, pastes, wheels, or diamond inpregnated wetstones or inpregnated stainless steel bars. The credit card diamond hones will dress an edge, but I wouldn't consider sharpening the whole tool with it. Seems you aren't using the correct water stones in the propper manner. Any tool used improperly on a regular water stone will dig in, even a butter knife. I have watched lumber jacks shave with a full size axe, handel and all, made out of steel !! So I would think that if you can't shave with your carbide cutter, it can't be all that sharp !! I sharpen my carbide router and shaper bits, depending on size, with daimond files, hones, or a 8" X 3" diamond bench stone. In 50+ years of collecting and sharpening old tools, I have never found a need to own a carbide tipped tool other than the cutters mentioned above. I have never tried this, but I would think you could polish carbide with pumais and oil or kerosene, seeing it's volcanic glass. Jim S

I believe your jumping around from axes to tungsten carbide is making this discussion more difficult than it needs to be. In your first post, you talk about lapping with rottenstone or oil and pumice. Nothing to do with the request for information by the original post on sharpening tungsten carbide. I would be really shocked if pumice would touch most grades of tungsten carbide since you also mention diamonds and cubic boron are needed to sharpen carbide. Both scratch glass very easily. I don't consider the "stones" sold with a diamond matrix to be water stones, and they don't sell them as such. Water stones are soaked in water before use and are for sharpening steel tools. I've been sharpening tools for over 45 years, so would match my experiences to yours very closely.

 

[Leatherman1998]

Carbode molecules are larger than HSS, therefore you can't get carbide as shaving sharp as HSS. You still can get carbide very sharp but not quite as sharp as HSS. I still have cutters on custom tools that have cutters from Capt. Eddie that I sharpen on a DMT stone regularly. I have cutters over 1 year old with lots of use. I make finishing cuts with resharpened cutters all the time. Just my .02

 

[plantman]

You and I are both wasting time and space on someone elses thread !! But, I do believe I have the option of defending my statements and the ansrwers you returned. First sentence. You were the one that brought up shaving with a carbide cutter. My point being that a steel axe must be sharper than a carbide cutter if you can't shave with the cutter. Second sentence. I never mentioned lapping, as is not the same as sharpening, but the process of flattening a surface. Third sentence. Your correct, it has nothing to do with carbide, only extra information for other tools and how to tell if your edges are sharp. Forth sentence. Volcanic pumias is not ordinary glass, and we are not talking about most grades of Tungton Carbide. Fifth sentence. The "stones" sold with impregnated diamonds are not waterstones !! They are whetstones, as I stated, and can be used dry or with water, kerosene, or oil as a lubericant. CSUSA sells them and calls them diamond bench stones. Sixth sentence. Correct ! Last sentence. We all have different methods of sharpening our tools, the difference that seperates you and I from newer turners, is the fact that we have been doing it for a long time, know what sharp realy is, and how to get the tool to that point !! We need to pass this information on to the next groupe comming up, because there aren't to many places left where one can go to be an apprentice and learn the old trades anymore !! Sorry Nick !! Hope you injoyed the banter, and had your questions answered. Jim S

 

[low_48]

Come on Jim. Go back and read your post, #2. You use this sentence; "If you can shave the hairs off your arm, that's sharp". And latter you say; "Mirror finishes can also be obtained using a series of Water stones ending with 8,000 grit or higher". Jim S
I didn't reply until post #5. Since your post #2 says nothing about materials, and the original poster only asked about carbide cutters, I didn't want him to think your reply was the techniques that explained how to sharpen tungsten carbide. That's what he wanted, wasn't it? Now you are telling me I was the one that brought it up. Please reread all the posts. I also suggest you check your spelling when telling people what to use. They have to Google it to find it, and you've spelled pumice a couple different ways. pumas in #2, pumais in #6 and in #9, and or rotten stone in #2 for rottenstone. I'm not upset about you defending your statements, but don't misspeak about who said what.

 

[sbell111]

Back towards the thread's topic: I don't bother to try to sharpen these cutters as they are super inexpensive. As they dull, I toss them in the trash.

 

[Timbo]

Nick - The answer is YES to your question. I'm going on 4 years with the same set of square and round cutters that came with my first set carbide tools. I just hit them on the flat side with the medium, then fine credit card diamond hone using water as the lubricant. Takes about a minute for each cutter. I don't even own an extra set of cutters for these two tools.

 

[robutacion]

plantman & low_48

I'm reading this thread with interest as I also have some experience with tool sharpening and could very easily be part of this "conversation" but, the main points were quickly discussed so, I read and kept my mouth shut as the OP got his answer already however, I can very well understand what happened when 2 individuals with their own extensive experiences can "crash" with technical gibberish that means nothing to most people.

There is one thing that I agreed totally with plantman and there is, in the right context, technical information can be most useful to people that are new to the subject, as confusing as it may sound, most of what is acquired with time and experience, was based on that technical data/info and I agree that, the old techniques tricks and secrets of tool sharpening, are being lost as the older folks die off so, I'm a stronger supporter of passing on those experiences and knowledge to new people, they will be thankful one day that someone have took the time...!

On the other hand, I'm a little disappointed with low_48, I have a problem with people that use spelling mistakes to try to get back on someone, is most irritating when someone uses such insignificant mistakes, from the lack of having something better to say.

How do I know...??? I have been a "target" of that same tactic far too many times and while I got quite used to it, it still annoys me seeing it happening to anyone. One would think that, such comments tend to be prejudicial, regardless if English is their first language or not so, wanting to go no further on this issue, I would like to ask you to retain yourself from making comments like that, it can really hurt and induce people with less than "perfect" English skills to want to participate in these written conversations...!

Thank you

George

 

[low_48]

I'll tell you one thing George, if someone Googled pumas and tried to use it for sharpening, you might get scratched up a little! LOL!!!!!
File:CMM MountainLion.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My intention was not to get back at him for anything. There was nothing to get back at. I just wanted the OP to understand that he was getting suggestions on how to sharpen steel, not carbide. I guess I should have been more clear with my intention. I'm curious on how not using the existing spell checker on this site, or any spell checker, reflects on someones English skills?

 

[UCLAJediKnight]

Hey everyone,

I have to be honest. I am completely lost in this thread.

To ALL the experts: Can you sharpen the EWT carbide cutters on diamond hones? If so, how?

 

[walshjp17]

Take the cutter off the tool, turn it UPSIDE DOWN on the diamond hone and rub it lightly back and forth a few times (3 - 5 works for me); turn it 90° and rinse and repeat three more times. Reinstall the cutter on your tool and away you go.

 

[low_48]

Diamond is the abrasive to use to sharpen tungsten carbide. Use as fine of diamond hone as you can find. My favorite technique is to place a wood dowel in my lathe chuck, square up the end, then drill a small pilot hole in the end of the dowel. Now use a wood screw that is small enough to set below the surface of the insert face, and screw the insert to the end of the dowel. Start the lathe up slowly, and bring the hone up to the spinning top surface of the insert. A little water will help flush away the particles. If the spinning insert bothers you, walshjp17 has is right.