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Old 03-21-2013, 06:37 AM   #11 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russianwolf View Post

SHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

I'm working on it.

Enamels actually come powdered, so size and shape isn't a problem really.

Problem is actually the metal (can only use Fine silver and PURE copper, Our brass tubes don't even come close to working) and getting an even coat (tends to want to sag on a round item)
send me your brass tubes, and I will return them to you in pure copper
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Isnt that one of the first steps to chrome something?
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:44 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
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Glenn you can chrome straight onto brass when tank plating being as its a copper alloy.. though if brush plating you are best to nickel plate first to prevent bleed. With steels or aluminium you would need to nickel plate first, before you could copper plate.

with brass tubes you could just use pure copper anodes, making your part cathodic in copper sulphate electrolyte.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:43 AM   #14 (permalink)
 
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Thanks for the offer Brad. I may ask you to do that in the future to see if it'll work.

I'm not sure of the reason that only those metals are recommended (and one other call Gilder's brass (95%copper and 5% zinc, which our tubes aren't) and of course Gold which I won't go there). It may be due to the rate of expansion for the pure metals being low enough to not crack the glass once its fused onto the metal. Not sure if a coating of one of the allowable metals on top of our brass will work, but I'm actually putting a layer (thicker than a plating) of fine silver on one now to try that.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:59 AM   #15 (permalink)
 
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it needs to be a zinc based alloy in order for the enamel to stick. whatever your metal you can always zincate it. coppers pretty much universal however. not much won't stick to pure copper.

let us know how you get on I've considered giving this a god for filling in etching as suggested by Ed in the past.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:19 AM   #16 (permalink)
 
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it needs to be a zinc based alloy in order for the enamel to stick. whatever your metal you can always zincate it. coppers pretty much universal however. not much won't stick to pure copper.

let us know how you get on I've considered giving this a god for filling in etching as suggested by Ed in the past.
Actually, if your metal has zinc it will likely cause the enamel to end up with pits and bubbles. The gilders metal (5% zinc) can only take a few firings before the zinc starts to cause problems. Plated metals would likely be nothing but trouble. Copper is a pain in the backside to machine (at least for me), so making custom tubes or pen parts out of machined copper isn't in my future.

There is always copper clay, but you can apply enamel to low carbon steel and iron. Stainless steel also. You just need to use the right enamels. I was even reading where somebody enameled aluminum using special low temp high expansion enamels. That sounds exactly like what you might want to try Brad.

You don't have to be limited by the brass tubes in a kit Mike.

Ed

Last edited by Ed McDonnell; 03-21-2013 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:47 AM   #17 (permalink)
 
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Interesting info Ed, thanks for posting. il take a look into this high expansion enamel
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
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You don't have to be limited by the brass tubes in a kit Mike.

Ed
Oh I know, but trying to find a solution that will work for others easily as well.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
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If you go the enamel route under resin you could make it with a copper tube like in this tutorial for enameled copper beads.
Easy Enameling: Make Enameled Copper-Tube Beads - Jewelry Making Daily - Jewelry Making Daily

I have done it before with some jewelry I made and it doesn't require anything extra other than a torch and some copper tubing in the right size. The way I envision it would be make the "bead" put that in a mold and cast the resin around it. I would try it but I have never cast anything and will be waiting until I am more comfortable with the basics before I try adding more.
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:39 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
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The truth is you can enamel just about any metal of the silver, gold, copper, steel, bronzes, aluminum brass types and of course cast iron. The trick is in the enamel make up it self, plus the binding agent, and of course the temp used to melt the enamel and length of time in the kiln.

Cooking pots called enamel ware either in white with red or blue trim, or the infamous blue ground pots with white spots or flecks also sold under a number of generic trade names stone ware, blue enamel ware etc.

The most famous items of the cast iron stuff are the old style cast iron claw foot bathtubs of yore.

Brass items are done in India and China. The use of brass is only if it is very high in copper and low in zinc. The temperature must be accurately controlled or the zinc tends to bleed out of the metal and the enamel will not stick to it, but tends to pop off the base metal. Jewelry and decorative items, made up of thin brass wires soldered to a non-brass base forming cells, that are then filled in. It is called Cloisonné the brass wires are held in place by the enamel.

If you care to some of the better books are
The art of enameling, by Linda Darty
Cloisonné Enameling and Jewelry Making by Felica Liban &Louise Mitchell

And the two original masters works.
Enameling by Kenneth F Bates
Enameling on metal by Oppi Untracht

The materials and techniques have improved vastly in the last 45 years since I did my first ash tray. They have enamels that you can use with Mapp torches and a wide assortment of low temp lead free enamels.

The gilding metal that has been mentioned has a melting point of 1935°F/1057°C so the flow temp of the enamel should be well below that.
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