Finishing question

[Math2010]

Hello,

In my course, the instructor made us finish our wood pen with one coat of EEE-Ultra shine polish followed by 2-3 coat of Shellawax. The result is cool, but not super gloss. Is there a way to make the pen more glossy with that products (I've just bought one bottle of each).

Thanks

 

[monophoto]

Difficult to answer the question because we don't know what material you were using or how well it was sanded.

EEE-Ultrashine is NOT a finish - it is an abrasive wax that is used to smooth the wood before application of a true finish.

Shellawax is a shellac-and-wax friction polish. It can build to a nice finish, but it won't be a shiny as an oil-varnish that is later buffed and waxed, or a CA finish.

Suggestions:

1. Sand through the grits to at least 600. You can go higher if you want.
2. Use the EEE (or Dr. Kirk's, or Yorkshire grit - they are all similar products) to further polish the piece. You don't have to limit yourself to one treatment, but it may not make sense to do more than two.
3. Apply your Shellawax, but don't limit yourself to only three coats. Remember that shellac finishes don't create layers, but rather build on each other. So more than three coats will produce a thicker coat, and if you are seeking 'glossy', you need a thicker finish.
4. Finally, be aware that shellac finishes are fine for display pieces, but don't hold up well on things that are frequently handled. Shellac finishes generally are the least ideal for pens.

 

[BeeAMaker]

How well does the CA work for a decent shine?

 

[Math2010]

Thank you monophoto.
Your explanations are really clear!

 

[eharri446]

A CA finish can fool people into thinking that they are holding a pen made with plastic when it is actually natural wood. The CA finishes can take an extremely high gloss polish and it lasts as well.

 

[JP1337]

I use the EEE + Shellawax for my finishes because that's what I was originally taught with and that's what I bought.

As was mentioned above, it's not a long lasting durable finish, but it can look stunning.

Wood choice can play a role, spalted woods don't do well with Shellawax.

I find I can get an incredible looking finish by using the following method:

I sand through to my highest grit, which is 1200, followed by micromesh to 15000 (the grit on sandpaper and micromesh run on a different scale, check the library for more info)

I make a habit of NOT touching the blank with my bare skin from this point onwards.

I then use EEE, turning the speed on the lathe up nice and high, and I do a few coats of this, letting the abrasive in the wax do its thang. 3 coats on average, 4 if I feel like it. No real formula.

I then do 3 or 4 coats of the Shellawax, making sure to really get the heat up through the friction. On each coat, you need to keep the friction on until the cloth you're applying it with is hard and shiny. This is important.

Also, don't hold it on for too long or it could burn. Don't ask how I know this.

I find I can get a stunning deep gloss finish with this method, but here's the kicker:

If you handle the blank straight after you finish polishing, it will go dull FAST.

The finish takes time to cure. I find a month is about right. I KNOW RIGHT! A WHOLE MONTH!
So I transfer the finished barrels to a clear plastic tube without touching the finish, using the bushings, and put it away for a month.

By doing so, I find it makes the finish at least a little bit durable.

But the finish will wear off. it will go dull from regular use.

I use the very first pen I ever turned, which was finished using Shellawax, on a daily basis. It's my work horse pen. Its finish is dull, the plating is trashed, and I love everything about it.

If you want a durable finish. Go CA. There are PLENTY of forum, and info in the library to help you with that style of finish. I like Shellawax, but to use it is to accept its flaws.

I don't sell pens with a Shellawax finish. But then again, I don't sell many pens at all.

Hope that helps.

JP

 

[Math2010]

Thank you very much JP1337!
It really help!

 

[Dave Turner]

I usually use CA for my finish and it always polishes to a high glass-like shine. It also lasts a long time. My very first every-day carry pen is just as shiny as the day I made it six years ago.

Recently, I've tried a few pens with walnut oil followed by Doctor's Woodshop Pens Plus. This is a friction polish applied in 3 or 4 coats. I have been impressed with the high degree of shine you can obtain. More of a high shine furniture-like finish rather than the glass-like finish of CA. I can't vouch for longevity yet, but others seem to be happy with its lasting power. The best part is that the Pens Plus finish takes much less time to accomplish than a CA finish.

 

[JP1337]

Since you already have the EEE and Shellawax, (BTW Shellawax GLOW would have been a slightly better option, but Shellawax is still good) I would say the best thing you can do is play with it and try it out for yourself.

Turn down some barrels, make sure you get your sanding process right before you start applying any kind of finish. If your sanding isn't tip top, your finish will always lack. So practice your sanding, remembering to sand lengthwise as well (there is plenty of info on this in the finishing section of the forums). Once your sanding is the best you can get it, use the EEE with a bit of pressure, I use at least two coats of this, as the fine grit in it is really good. You can polish up with that until you are happy with it, buff it with a clean cloth, then apply your Shellawax, turn the lathe up real fast and burn that finish into the wood! Speed and pressure make friction, friction makes heat, and this is what it takes to get that finish to do its job!

Remember, everyone has their own methods they use.
Play around with it, find your own techniques based on what you find works for you. You already paid for the polish, might as well get to know it personally!

 

[Math2010]

I tried to put like 10 coats of Shellawax on my pen. The problem I had is that there's an "accumulation" of the shellawax at the junction with the bushing. When I removed the bushing, I had to find a solution because there was shellawax at the end of the penblank. I took my nail, but it removed a bit of my finish on the blank... How do you proceed to remove that over shellawax or to resolve that problem?

 

[Skie_M]

I tried to put like 10 coats of Shellawax on my pen. The problem I had is that there's an "accumulation" of the shellawax at the junction with the bushing. When I removed the bushing, I had to find a solution because there was shellawax at the end of the penblank. I took my nail, but it removed a bit of my finish on the blank... How do you proceed to remove that over shellawax or to resolve that problem?

It would seem that you are not sanding your blanks square to the brass tube before mounting on the mandrel. If there is ANY GAP AT ALL your finish will find it's way in there ... This is something basic that you are going to have to work out BEFORE you start trying things like a CA or lacquer finish, as those can literally glue your barrels to the bushings.

 

[Math2010]

In fact, I've used a pen mill cutter to square my blank.
I made a drawing to show what happened. Sorry, I'm not good in drawing....

 

[leehljp]

Wax of any kind is not a "finish" in the sense of permanent or semi-permanent "paint" finish.

A truth: It is hard to go against the first thing one learns about a subject due to trusting the one that taught you.

The fellows that taught you were true woodworkers or bowl turners. Wax products make the look and feel of wood come alive. However, continued use means continued waxing. Today's generation does not wax wood furniture in the way wood furniture was waxed 50 years ago and before. Wax wears off and evaporates. It does make the wood look and feel great. That is very good IF waxing continues every week or every month. Are you willing to continue doing this?

Next, I am a woodworker from back in the '50s as a kid. Still, I recognize that pens are different in that they are held daily many times and need a different kind of protection than wood bowls and furniture. Ever notice the edges of cabinets in the kitchen after 3 or 4 years use? Hand grime! This is what the pen sees at a rate of months. The wax will wear off in a week at best. It will not continue to shine.

CA, Solarex (in the experimental stages here on IAP), some epoxies, some lacquers, liquid acrylics and other finishes will do much better.

 

[nativewooder]

Learn to use lacquer, and read the instructions carefully and many times. Don't be afraid to practice and feel free to experiment.

 

[Math2010]

I understand that I have to change my finish type...

But how can I remove the over of shellawax when I separate blank from bushing.

 

[mecompco]

I understand that I have to change my finish type...

But how can I remove the over of shellawax when I separate blank from bushing.

A simple way is to lay a piece of 320 or 400 grit paper down on a flat surface and carefully, being sure to keep it perfectly flat, drag the end of the blank across it.

A more precise would be to mount a disc sander on your lathe, chuck a correctly sized punch in a drill chuck on your tail stock and gently sand off the excess finish. BTW, this is a much more controllable way to square your blanks as well. A pen mill can easily "eat" a brittle blank.

Regards,
Michael

 

[Math2010]

Thank you for your advices!

 

[Skie_M]

HMM ..... how in the world would you get that to happen? The shellawax just pushed your bushing apart from your pen barrel as you worked???

You should have that tight and secure on the mandrel, so that should never have been possible. It's a very puzzling situation, the only thing I could think of was that you didn't have the barrels squared to the brass, but if you did I have no idea what makes that happen.


I do, however, have a few things to say about how to prevent it, though ...


Finish between centers:

Use a 60 degree cone center and live center set (or make something similar up for your lathe)...

It can be as simple as using a live center like a mandrel saver with a length of 1/4" aluminum rod sticking out and a 7mm bushing friction fit to it (have more length inside the mandrel saver than out) and adding a block of delrin or other nonstick material to the end of the rod that's been turned to a 60 degree cone ... and for the headstock side a rod of delrin that's been turned to a cone shape.

It doesn't have to be perfectly squared or run true, you're gonna go at the slowest speed for applying a CA finish.

For a shellawax high speed polish or buffing stage for the CA finish, you can use a harder material that will run true, like a hardwood or solid aluminum or brass 60 degree centers. Steel works if you have them or can make them. At high speed, you don't want anything that isn't perfectly squared.