Whats happened to cursive

[altaciii]

Just last week I was in my bosses office going over business and I noticed that as he took notes he wrote in all caps. I take all my notes in cursive and after the meeting was over I asked him why he always wrote in caps. His answer "Its the only way I was taught. I couldn't even pretend to write in cursive." I was floored, then today I see this. Just thought I would share.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/LIVING/08/10/handwriting.horror/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

[Ruby pen turning]

I used to write everything in cursive. Now the only thing I know how to write in cursive is my name. If I have to write cursive for anything else I get stuck and dont know how to make the letters. Very weird I know.

 

[SnowLeopard_2001]

It is sad to think of all the old family letters, documents, and etc. that will be unreadable in the not too distance future, because of the education system. I am sadden to think how much enrichment will be lost from their lives and for what?:frown::frown:

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Yep, thats not the only thing todays schools aren't teaching. When my granddaughter took her finals in high school she was REQUIRED to bring an adding machine to class. I asked the principle what the reason was and was told that they need to know how to use modern technology. When I pointed to my head and asked "have we decided the brain is totally outdated and now I know why her students can't give change at Mcdonalds without looking at the cash register. She then said with todays technology they don't need to know how. At that point I turned and just walked away shaking my head.

 

[IPD_Mrs]

She then said with today's technology they don't need to know how. At that point I turned and just walked away shaking my head.

I have been shaking my head ever since I heard this ludicrous story a month or two ago (can't recall exactly) Indiana has just joined the list of "non-teaching" states. On one hand I find it terribly pathetic and wonder when schools will stop "educating" completely and just teach our youth to become "working robots." On the other, I do recognize the importance of technology and the lack of funding faced by many.

I have to believe and advocate that if you don't know the hows and whys of something just being able to push the buttons won't do you a crapload of good. Sure, you can enter some numbers and get a mean, mode or median - but will you have a CLUE as to what any of those things mean????? And ... if you are running a business, something critical ... like a medical clinic - what happens if the power goes out for a long period? You - a doctor, nurse or some paraprofessional - need to transfer information to another professional involved in the case - working with only a back up generator you have to HAND WRITE a note to get your orders followed because using the computers in every department would use too much of what precious energy is garnered by the generators - will you be able to form that thought - know the names of everything or by then will you only be able to find the information because you know how to operate an electronic medical record, search for the medication or what not you need, select and enter, but don't know how to use one of man's earliest technologies ... pen and paper. What about all of the "free flow thinking" that happens when you put a pen to paper? Will that be lost because we no longer are being taught to THINK???

I write fast and clear, I type faster. I think I am lucky to be one of the later Boomers and be able to interact in both "worlds." I hate to think of what my Grandchildren's children's children will have to face in the years to come if this is the path that education will be guided down. (Of course that can be said of many things in life....)

With all due respect to the teachers here on IAP - because I admire teachers a great deal, especially in today's world when frequently a teacher is putting their life on the line just by walking into their school building. More than that though, I teach adults (well taught) in my last job for all the years I was in management. I taught Mentally Ill adults some of the most basic concepts in life and staff some of the most complex concepts in mental health. I taught both to use computers and some of the newest technological advances available in electronic medical recording. At times it was more difficult teaching staff than teaching clients . . .

It is more difficult to chisel a blank stone slate than to punch buttons on a brilliant computerized gizmo! This is true even if in the end you create a masterpiece either way.

Linda, aka Mrs.

 

[Rfturner]

As I type this it is not jut penmanship that is going by the wayside. It is also spelling because with the texting programs and auto correct functions you no longer have to know how to spell you just have to get it close. I actually do all three forms of notes... at work it is mostly handwritten in manuscript(basic), for my note taking outside of work is cursive (especially the ones I don't want everyone to see and read). The third is electronic. I love to write in cursive but fewer people are able to read and write in cursive.

 

[AKPenTurner]

Yup. I don't usually use cursive, but being homeschooled, I was taught and can read and write cursive.

Completely agree with you Linda!
I have a friend who was at McDonalds and went to pay $6.05. He handed the girl a $10 bill and a nickel and asked her to give him back $4. She said she couldn't do that. So he tried to explain to her that it works and she ended up in tears. The manager came over and tried to explain it to her and she just didn't see the math. We're only going to see more of this...

 

[ctubbs]

The old addage about computers applies to all electrical and electronic devices. It is not if the hard drive (electrical device) will crash, it is when. As most electricians know, when the magic smoke gets out it won't work any more. No, you can not grab the smoke and put it back to make it work. Without massive rebuilding, our electrical grid will grind to a halt, then how will the girl at McDonalds, Wallyworld, Kroger, you name the place be able to even add up your bill much less give the correct change. When will all this take place? Your guess is as good as mine, but without Government help and intervention it is as sure as the Sun rising in the East tomorrow.
Charles

 

[WIDirt]

I was taught cursive and if I concentrate, I can still write in it. However, I am a trained draftsman, and through high school I had 2 drafting classes a year, all with the same teacher, Mr. Petersen, a family friend. His favorite punishment for doing something wrong in class or on a drawing was lettering sheets.... I did many ... Because of this, I can write in block letters faster than most can write in cursive.

Now, I am an admin and need to write in a plain block font when writing up instructions, so my cursive is almost never used.

I have turned one fountain pen. I have also discovered that fountain pens are NOT good for writing block letters! For proper ink flow, the nib has to stay in contact with the paper. I am starting to write more in cursive because of this. I have also forced my son to learn cursive. He didn't like it, but he did it. Now, if I can just keep him using it.....

 

[tt1106]

They don't require or grade cursive on standardized tests. These tests are essential for schools for progress and impact funding so they are the focus. In our experience (perspective) with 3 daughters, one who graduated last year. Schools gear their education to performing better on these tests. My daughter this year, a sophomore, told me that her Algebra teacher told her that if she spent 15 minutes on her homework and didn't finish she could have her parents write a note.

 

[leestoresund]

I learned to write in cursive about the second grade, maybe third.
Doesn't make any difference if I write in cursive or block letters. Can't read my own notes in either case.

The judge asked the indigent defendant" "Can you read and write?"
"I can write."
So he makes some marks on the paper.
"What's that say? asks the judge.
"I don't know. I can't read."

Lee

 

[mredburn]

And yet my grandchildren Here in SW Florida are being taught cursive. The oldest is in 6Th grade now and her brother is in 4th grade. Both of them had to practice writing their spelling words in cursive.

 

[tt1106]

And yet my grandchildren Here in SW Florida are being taught cursive. The oldest is in 6Th grade now and her brother is in 4th grade. Both of them had to practice writing their spelling words in cursive.

I'd wager that will eventually change.
The schools here forsake cursive to teach computer keyboarding. It's a trend I doubt will be turned around.

 

[firewhatfire]

I may be one of the oddballs of the group. I not only can read it, I can write it forwards and backwards(sorta a mirrror image). My kids think its the wierdest thing ever, come to think of it so deoes everyone else that sees me do it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_writing


Phil

 

[altaciii]

When I posted this I was shocked at the fact that kids ere not taught cursive to write. the thought never occurred to me that not learning to write also means not learning to read it. I now gotta test my boss and see if he CAN read it.

 

[alphageek]

Being a pen turning site, I know we are a little biased toward writing vs typing (ok.. but obviously we type too - really hard to write with a pen on the web )....

Let me start by saying my daughter is still learning cursive in her school, but on the other hand, I'm not sure I fall into the camp of that going away is that bad. Here is some of my alternative thoughts:

- Life is changing. They don't teach Latin anymore (except college), but thats not a bad thing. Progression of what is taught is going to happen.
- Kids these days are being pushed into ways we never were... At my daughters school they start them in 3 classes that weren't even offered until middle school or higher when I was in school (keyboarding, computer usage, and a foreign language).
- My daughter had 2 of those classes starting in 1st grade and all 3 by 3rd!

As for me, I have to say that I'm like Lee.. I was taught cursive, but don't plan on reading it. On my grade school report cards, I got straight A's ... If you ignored the D in penmanship. I still write ALOT today (even before creating my own pens), but if I have to write for others, I have to slow down and be much more careful about my writing as it still stinks. Huh... maybe I should have been a doctor

 

[RichB]

So many times you can't read cursive due to the sloppiness of it. I can't wait till all writing is done on a electronic device, then all my pens will be antiques and worth a lot of money. Just thinking ahead HE HE

 

[TomW]

I agree with the comments above. I routinely get resumes (from graduate Petroleum Engineers) with texting slang throughout.... What amazes me is, with the demise of slide rules, that people cannot even tell if an answer to a calculation is within an order of magnitude of correct.

 

[tim self]

My daughter graduated in 2000. When she was in the 8th grade, '94, (military DOD school) she was "required" to have a calculator for math. This is nothing new sadly. As Roy stated, their reasoning was that when these kids graduated they needed to be tech savy. She was taught cursive in the early grades however, my son (6 yrs younger) was not taught this.

I try to write everything in cursive regardless of what it is but some folks cant read cursive, not just mine.

 

[glycerine]

Just last week I was in my bosses office going over business and I noticed that as he took notes he wrote in all caps. I take all my notes in cursive and after the meeting was over I asked him why he always wrote in caps. His answer "Its the only way I was taught. I couldn't even pretend to write in cursive." I was floored, then today I see this. Just thought I would share.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/LIVING/08/10/handwriting.horror/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

My dad does the same. I always thought it was a military thing...

 

[Russianwolf]

I was taught cursive, but the ,military beat it out of me for English. now, I write cursive Russian and print English. Ask me to do the opposite, and I will stare at the page for several minutes before I can start, and it'll take forever as I think through it.

 

[hanau]

I tried to write cursive last night at work and had to give it up and print what i needed to write in the log book.

I had to sit there and think to long and hard on how to form the words in cursive.

 

[Steve Busey]

I remember when I first learned cursive (2nd or 3rd grade?) I showed my neighbor friend (a year younger than me), and he said, "Wow, you write just like my mom!"

But since school, I do everything but my signature in non-cursive...

 

[zapdafish]

If I have to do much writing my hand starts to hurt.

Plus, when taking notes in meetings, I gotta write fast or I forget what I need to jot down or I dont catch the next thing being said so all my writing turns into scribbling, a mash of cursive and print that I hope I can decipher when I get back to my desk, hehe.

At least it's written with a gel upgrade

 

[bitshird]

I like to dabbel in trying to write cursive, we were taught to write cursive in the second and third grade by the old time Palmer method, we were still required to do all of our paper work in cursive, book reports, and all. We were even graded on penmanship in High school.
But writing so much CNC G code, and doing drafting all in block letters my cursive has gone to phooey. of course arthritis hasn't helped, but I love to sit down with a fountain pen and write in my Journal, I am probably the only living being, other than my wife that can decipher the strange marks I leave on paper. I hate to see handwriting become obsolete,
Has any one noticed the new I-Pad commercials where a child is learning to write/spell using his finger on the device?? I think that pretty much says which way we are headed.

 

[monophoto]

I went through ordinary taxpayer-supported public schools in Florida. We were taught cursive writing in elementary school, but after that initial exposure, I don't recall any real emphasis on practicing or polishing cursive writing. My handwriting is OK - especially if I take time and try to be neat. But after the frantic note-taking experience of college, and years in the business world, its could be better.

I had some work colleagues who had excelleng cursive handwriting skills. The one thing that differentiated them from me - instead of public schools, they were the product of old-fashioned parochial schools, and all in the Northeast.

 

[PR_Princess]

Like Ken when I was in school, everything was written, and graded, in cursive. All exams were timed and, except maths, essay based. And your handwriting had better be legible too. There was no multiple guessing, no computer grading.

And today we still communicate with the written word. Perhaps more now than ever before. I recently read that we are sending out an astonishing 295 billion emails and 5 billion text messages per day. All the while most of our day to day personal handwriting has become consigned to nothing more than post it notes and credit card signatures. It seems that hardly anyone sits down and actually pens a letter anymore.:frown:

So now, something like 44 states have adopted the Common Core State Standards Initiative. This is a non Federal program is designed to set shared standards in education across the States. (It is mainly responsible for all those news headlines about cursive not being taught in schools. You can read about it here - www.corestandards.org )

What happened to cursive? Will it eventually fade? I believe that in a large degree it already has. Even in the very generation that was taught the art.

And if we don't bother to employ it, how can you reasonably expect our children to?

 

[NewLondon88]

like several others, we learned cursive starting in the second grade, and
were required to use it in all other classes until graduation, with the exception
of math. After 3rd grade or so it wasn't taught per se .. but if your papers
couldn't be read, you failed. You weren't 'marked down' for poor penmanship,
the paper was simply rejected as being illegible. By 12th grade you might
get a few teachers to let you print, but only a few. Now it's just another
one of those 'unnecessary skills' that is being dropped.

The McDonald's example of counting change happened to me recently.
I'm waiting for my coffee and the power goes out on the registers. The
cashier can't take my money because the computer is out, so she can't
tell how much change to give me. Seriously. I didn't want the free coffee..
I wanted the damned change so I could throw it at her for being so cavalier
about not having such a basic skill. She actually said to me "I'm not good
at math" .. Math doesn't even enter into it! Can you count to ten? Can
you count by fives? by tens? Then you can give change.
And before you get on me about picking on some 16yr old kid, this was
the manager.

Someone mentioned Latin not being taught anymore .. and that we've
lost nothing by dropping it. I don't agree, though. Most of our sciences
have their roots in Latin.. much of our own language has it's roots in
Latin, or comes from other languages that can trace their roots back
to it. I think it helps us understand our vocabulary better, even if it is
only because we have a better hint at the word's root, and start seeing
the same types of patterns in words whose roots are based on other
languages.

 

[PenMan1]

DEFINITION PLEASE!!!

What is cursive?:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[TellicoTurning]

I still can write cursive.. at least that's what I call it... I learned in 3rd grade and spent many hours practicing all the OOOOOO's and the up and down strokes, etc... as I said I can still write in cursive and can read it, but if I write, it's usually notes for myself and most of the time if the ink drys I have trouble deciphering what the marks mean.

I remember that my kids were allowed to take calculators to math class... which I though was ridiculous ... how are they going to learn math if they use a calculator.... we had to learn how to use the instrument, but we had better not bring it to class... at least not until I got into college.

We weren't even allowed to use a ball point pen in my high school... a fountain pen was required for all written papers and we were only allowed to type our senior year theme paper... until my senior year, it was all hand written and with a fountain pen.

I think kids need the new technology, but they still need the old... what's going to happen in a couple of generations when no one can think in terms of math, electronics, etc... and all the technology breaks and needs repair... it's not going to help that you can punch a keyboard if you don't know what the inside of the keyboard is supposed to be doing.

Part of this thread made me think about a NCIS episode... the bad guys blew out the power grid and all the young agents were scrambling trying to figure out how to investigate the crime... they needed to put out a BOLO for a bad guy.... only method they had was a mimeograph machine... only Gibbs knew how to use it....

Another episode, Tony opened an envelope with a white powder and the building went into lock down... as Gibbs and McGee were in autopsy, McGee need to take note of something and said he needed his PDA... Gibbs told him to use Ducky's .... McGee looked all around the room and told Gibbs he couldn't find Ducky's PDA... Gibbs said - "It's a pad and pencil".... :biggrin:

 

[wouldentu2?]

100 years ago if people had computers there would have been no more cursive writing and no old letters to go through just email with funny characters

 

[PenMan1]

Yep, thats not the only thing todays schools aren't teaching.

Given the United States' current economic delima, perhaps we should bring back Home Economics to high school studies. A sucsessful grade in Home Economics required each student to submit a complete budget and demostrate the ability to live within that budget.

 

[NewLondon88]

Given the United States' current economic delima, perhaps we should bring back Home Economics to high school studies. A sucsessful grade in Home Economics required each student to submit a complete budget and demostrate the ability to live within that budget.

Sounds like a good entrance exam for Congress.

not that I'm being political or anything.

 

[NewLondon88]

I also don't see the trade-off of teaching computers but not teaching handwriting..
in fact, until very recently, there was a good chance that students entering first grade
would have better computer skills than many of the teachers if the student's family
was computer savvy. Of course, now they're even taking the computer skills out of
using a computer. 20 years ago if someone had a computer, chances are they knew
a fair bit about them. Now, the computer just amuses you enough to stay on it
so that the advertisers can pick your pockets.

 

[G1Pens]

I guess the "Three Rs" are pretty much a thing of the past. Readin' will soon be done by text to speech technology. Wrtin' is obviously on its way out, and 'Rithmetic is not necessary with calculators.

I think we are headed downhill !!!

 

[sbwertz]

Someone mentioned Latin not being taught anymore .. and that we've
lost nothing by dropping it. I don't agree, though. Most of our sciences
have their roots in Latin.. much of our own language has it's roots in
Latin, or comes from other languages that can trace their roots back
to it. I think it helps us understand our vocabulary better, even if it is
only because we have a better hint at the word's root, and start seeing
the same types of patterns in words whose roots are based on other
languages.

I was an English Major in college and taught English at the college level. I had 4 years of Latin in high school. I didn't really understand some of the unusual English usage, until after I studied Latin. For example, "If I were you" is subjunctive...contrary to fact condition...I'm NOT you. Therefore we use "were" not "was" in this construction. There are only a few such constructions left in English. "If that be so" is another. (conditional).

I still use cursive almost every day. Almost everything I hand write is in cursive. In fact, this whole thread was an education for me. I had no idea cursive was no longer taught. The idea of a person not being able to read and write cursive never occured to me. Being able to write a clear and pleasing "hand" was not one of my strong suits, I will admit. My hand could never keep up with my head, and my handwriting suffered for it. But all the way through school I was expected to take hand notes in class..in cursive because you can't print as fast as you can write cursive. (That is why cursive exists...it is faster than printing.) I never learned shorthand, so I took all my notes in cursive.

I was a terrible typist...fast but innacurate. I'd never have made it through college without "corrasible bond" paper that allowed you to easlily erase errors and retype. I took to the word processor in its infancy...on CP/M.

I have some old letters written in my grandparents time in a beautiful "copperplate" hand. Graceful and elegant, and perfectly readable a hundred years later. What a shame this skill is dying away.

 

[Jgrden]

This is shocking news and makes one think of WHY? At first I asked, how do they write checks? The answer is that most money is transferred and if resorted to writing checks, they would be printed. So then my attention turns to the McDonalds person and I ask, that happens in case of a global war? In other wars the opposition wanted to knock out communications and what if the enemy decided to knock out our satellites and electrocute our computer chips? No more math. And Latin was always the language that explained the mysteries that needed to be solved by scientists, doctors and educators.
Someone is leading us down a blind alley. Maybe we over the boomers age might be called upon to figure things out after all.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Well after all the ranting (me included) today I received this. Its from my 13 year old granddaughter who is dyslectic and has a hard time writing and spelling. While she and her 6 year old sister were up to vist us last month I gave her a fountain pen and sat with her teaching her to write with it. I showed her how to install the cartridge and clean it. We've been working with her on cursive but I had no idea she had come this far. Excuse the spelling but at this point I'm the happiest Granpa in the world. Now if you excuse me while I dry my eyes, I'll post the note she sent me.
Now next trip I'll work on math with her...Damn I'm proud

 

[PenMan1]

Next thing you know, pen sellers will only be allowed the Renanissance Fairs, right between the turkey drumstick and the Tinker.

ROTFLMAO! spell check just said "tinker" is misspelled and should be corrected to "thinker".

 

[Grizz]

I'm 48 years old. the near end of 7th grade all the teachers got together and decided I needed to write my 'stuff' in print or learn to type. They just couldn't read my writing. Sometimes it has to do with dexterity and not 'learning.'

Besides, with being dyslexic, print and the computer has permitted me to write over 1500 sermon manuscripts (that are usually 8-10 pages long) to this point. I think before we get on our high horse(s), we should remember we are all not made and function in the same way.

We are all gifted differently and as much as I wish I could have the hand writing of the Victorian age.... I do not.