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bsshog40

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The pen looks awesome! A lot of time involved with something like that. It has to be for pure personal pleasure/accomplishment to go thru all that work. Looked like fun! Lol
 

jttheclockman

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Yes I have seen this before and not sure on the segment count either but it makes a nice looking pen. Many ideas can be built off that same platform. I think he needs to tune his bandsaw up. That blade travel is too much. :):)
 

magpens

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Thanks for posting, Skip ! . Interesting indeed whether you count right or not !
 

chartle

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For those that don't agree do you think it should higher or lower?

Is each slice 8 or 16? What counts as a segment? Is every piece of wood a segment?
 

magpens

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Here's my calculation:

Count every piece of wood as a segment.
Each slice has 16 segments.
There are 29 slices.
There are 30 separators between slices, each is one segment.

Total number of segments = 494.

Somebody please check my counting and calculation, if you really think it matters ! . Happy New Year, Skip (who started this), and everyone else !!
 
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robutacion

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Just spotted this YouTube video by James Garwood...segmented slimline.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_DbUq42xZ44 :good::good:
Good job and nice result, but not sure I agree with the way the number of segments were counted.

G'day mate,

I hope you don't mind me posting this here on your thread, I followed your link and saw James video clip and was very interesting but, my eyes got set on a clip that was going to play automatically after the James one and I needed to see how it was made.

I don't know if this type of technique is applicable for making pen blanks, I've seen many segmented pieces but this one takes the cake particularly because you can not only see how it was done but this fellow does actually sell the rotating jig he created, I believe.

I couldn't stop to think of my good mate Mark James as his ability for creating designs for his segmented pens, many others may find this video interesting for themselves to try one day, I can tell you as much as I admire this sort of work, it ain't for me...!

Cheers
George
 

skiprat

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I really don't want to detract from his cool pen or take away from his obvious skill. I just think that many of the resulting bits are being counted several times. To me, the amounts of cuts determine the amount of segments.
Once a bunch of bits are glued together, then they become one piece again.
It did not start out as 500 individually cut and glued pieces. :wink:
 

chartle

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It did not start out as 500 individually cut and glued pieces. :wink:

But in the end thats what you have.

Case in point is a celtic knot 2 segments? Right before you glue in that last you have 2 pieces, a blank with 3 other hunks of wood glued into it and a hunk of ood you are about to glue into it.

Or would you call this 5 segments. :rolleyes::biggrin::wink:

I think we need a ruling from Mark James. :)

seg·ment noun /ˈseɡmənt/Submit

1.each of the parts into which something is or may be divided.
synonyms: piece, bit, section, part, chunk, portion, division, slice; fragment, wedge, lump "orange segments"

2. part, section, sector, division, portion, constituent, element, unit, compartment;
branch, wing "all segments of society"
 
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jttheclockman

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I think my previous post would make a little more sense if I had actually added the link I was talking about, sorry...!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjxF4naRF_g

Cheers
George

This is a person with lots of patience. That is very cool design and method of doing that. I have seen charts like that and that is how they do segmenting bowls and things. I like the tools he had especially that indexing wheel. You can tell he has done that type work once or twice before. Thanks for that link.


I just saw this video on FB and it too had a unique indexing wheel for a tablesaw setup. I have to expand my thinking because I am looking to do something on my drill press that requires an indexing wheel. Very cool.

www.facebook.com/Vids0/videos/383604972396939/
 
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skiprat

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I think my previous post would make a little more sense if I had actually added the link I was talking about, sorry...!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjxF4naRF_g

Cheers
George

Wow....that bowl certainly took a lot of time and patience. Of course , as each piece was individually placed then however many pieces it took is how many segments it has.:wink:
 

Dieseldoc

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I think my previous post would make a little more sense if I had actually added the link I was talking about, sorry...!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjxF4naRF_g

Cheers
George

This is a person with lots of patience. That is very cool design and method of doing that. I have seen charts like that and that is how they do segmenting bowls and things. I like the tools he had especially that indexing wheel. You can tell he has done that type work once or twice before. Thanks for that link.


I just saw this video on FB and it too had a unique indexing wheel for a tablesaw setup. I have to expand my thinking because I am looking to do something on my drill press that requires an indexing wheel. Very cool.

www.facebook.com/Vids0/videos/383604972396939/

JT:

Did you notice the sliding table saw attachment. High end table saw like this give you lots of opportunities to created precision cuts.

charlie
 

Dieseldoc

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I think my previous post would make a little more sense if I had actually added the link I was talking about, sorry...!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjxF4naRF_g

Cheers
George

George: Tom Lohan and Malcom Tibbebts are by far the worlds best segmenting masters in the non Pen area. Check you tube for Tahoe Turners and see what Malcom developes, it will blows you mind.

Cheers

Charlie
 

MRDucks2

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I really don't want to detract from his cool pen or take away from his obvious skill. I just think that many of the resulting bits are being counted several times. To me, the amounts of cuts determine the amount of segments.

Once a bunch of bits are glued together, then they become one piece again.

It did not start out as 500 individually cut and glued pieces. :wink:



So with this theory in mind:
If pieces are glued together
1+1=1
2+2=1
4+4=1
8+8=1

If they are loose
1+1=2
2+2=4
4+4=8
8+8=16

As such, any completed segmented blank is actually only 1 segment because they all get glued together in the end, anyway.

Working smarter instead of harder doesn't count. [emoji16]


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mark james

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I attended the Mid-Atlantic Woodturners Conference last September and displayed the IAP Collection. While there, I was able to hear three different demos/lectures by Malcolm Tibbetts. Incredibly inspiring, but kind of like seeing a genius at work - you "kind" of understand the individual processes, but also realize that he is so far beyond your level that you need to look for kernals of knowledge to go back and tweak your own efforts.

He also bluntly addressed the question of the number of pieces. He said he "didn't know and could care less." He said (I'm paraphrasing from memory) the form, the combinations and the final appearance is what should dictate the opinion of the observer."

As to this thread - I liked the video, and enjoyed seeing the process. I have used some of these techniques, but not all; but I appreciate the precision needed to get to the final pen. I have some critique with the alignment, but that is trivial and is more reflective on how I judge my work - not others.

Several thoughts have been offered to give an opinion of the number of segments. Each has valid logic. I actually think the number of cuts is an intriguing viewpoint. I'll offer another way to consider the question: (EDIT: MRDucks2 typed a similar thought as I was typing)

If you took this pen's both finished blanks, and magically eliminated the glue joints, what would you have (other than a ruined pen)? A pile of segments/veneers numbering about 450-500.

As segmenters, we strive to achieve precision through technique, and often combining several smaller segments into a larger element will aid in this process. So yes, this individual could have (well, maybe) started with each of the 500 segments, but I am doubtful that the final blanks would have had anything close to the excellent alignment he achieved through the process he used (cut, combine, cut, combine).

He made a very noteworthy pen. How many segments? Just enough. :)



Some additional work to admire - One of our own also - John Smith.

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/1st-place-rollerball-fountain-pen-contest-125598/

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/slimline-extravaganza-2nd-place-pen-125541/
 
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skiprat

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LMAO....MrDucks2, you can twist the maths anyway you want. :wink:
To me, if someone cuts up 50 pieces and then re-assembles them in an accurate fashion, they will get more admiration than someone simply cutting and gluing 20 pre-made assemblies and then saying their work was made from 64 billion individual parts.

If you honestly believe in that, then take a five dollar bill and cut it in half....then Sellotape it back together and go spend your 10 bucks :tongue:



:biggrin:
 

magpens

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Based on one or more contentious concepts espoused in this thread, BASH 2019 is off to a bad start.

It would seem quite justifiable to regard every segmented object as a pile of trash.

A different name should therefore be assigned to the Segmented Pen Contest.
 
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skiprat

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Ah don't get your knickers in a twist Mal...:wink: us old farts will have long forgotten this polite discussion many weeks before the Bash starts:tongue::biggrin:
 

PenPal

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A highly respected Turner from Canada following the tangent comments on something and if you forgive my vernacular,he said this.

Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning.

Thank you for your reference to the nominated 500 piece pen Skippy. I loved the pen personally.

Peter.
 

jttheclockman

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I have watched Malcom Tibbetts for years and bought many of his DVDS and just tried storing some of this knowledge to give some of the things he does a try. I have not gone down that road yet but I do try to incorporate and will incorporate some of these ideas in future pens. Call them segmented or whatever it is still the design factor and the talent that goes into making something that is beyond normal. This is the exact thing I try to convey here over and over like a broken record. We all have designs in our heads and with some basic knowledge of our tools we can do some of these things. The rings that encircle a pen tube no matter how small they still are a basic design. The trick is to be able to make and control small detailed pieces safely.

Segmenting is cutting and piecing materials to make a whole and break it down anyway you want but when you cut something and glue it back you segmented. How you form or shape those segments brings in the art factor into the piece. How one sees and interpret his or her ability to make a piece is what gets looked at and judged, not how many pieces there are. There are many examples of some dramatic outstanding pens that have crossed these forum pages and get lost at times. I hate to bring this up again but my thoughts on a Hall of Fame idea ring truer and Mark shown 2 more examples that would without doubt enter. Some day it will happen here and I may be long gone but it will happen and should happen. Just need to get over the politics that creeps into everything these days. :):):)
 

magpens

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Oh, John ... you take life and suchlike too seriously ... this is only Jan 02, after all !!!
 

mark james

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Based on one or more contentious concepts espoused in this thread, BASH 2019 is off to a bad start.

It would seem quite justifiable to regard every segmented object as a pile of trash.

A different name should therefore be assigned to the Segmented Pen Contest.

I think we are fine Mal. The only reason I joined in here is because I read no relation to the contest - this is a parallel discussion.

Personally, I have seen some wonderful segmented pens with relatively few actual segments. The actual number IMO is less important than how artistically they are combined. At times, less can be more attractive. (not that it matters, but some of my most complicated attempts were good enough for the trash; not even my oops bucket).
 

magpens

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Mark, ... now YOU're taking ME too seriously !! :biggrin::biggrin:

I am a big proponent of segmentation, fragmentation, and the WHOLE thing !
 

mark james

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Mark, ... now YOU're taking ME too seriously !! :biggrin::biggrin:

I am a big proponent of segmentation, fragmentation, and the WHOLE thing !

Oops :redface:! I'll go back to the doghouse (basement workshop) with my tail tucked in... Sorry.
 

magpens

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Mark, ... now YOU're taking ME too seriously !! :biggrin::biggrin:

I am a big proponent of segmentation, fragmentation, and the WHOLE thing !

Oops :redface:! I'll go back to the doghouse (basement workshop) with my tail tucked in... Sorry.


No problem, at all, Mark. :):) ... no need for the "sorry" !

One of the problems with these threads within threads is that by the time you get to Post #29, the gist of the OP has been overlooked.

Plus, I have always felt that my attempts at good humo(u)r tend to be misunderstood ... :biggrin: ... must have something to do with the :rolleyes: or something !! . I should stick to the boring and factual, I suppose !
 

elvino

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He hits 500

There are 29 layers of 16 = 464
there are 28 layers of 1 (walnut slice) = 28
but his top and bottom layer are the glued up 4 parter = 8

Total is 500 on the button - if you count each individual piece without the glue.

Semper Fi
Al
 

magpens

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Thanks for clarifying, Al. . I am glad you did.

I saw him making the one 4 parter, but I couldn't quite make it out in the final assembly so I just ignored that part of the segmentation.

I actually don't think that the 4 parters fit in aesthetically, though.
 

PenPal

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In the 1970,s I served following election in an inland cities Governing Body Goulburn City Council as an Alderman.

My observations were the minor matters eg a broken curb on a street received major attention. Detailed submissions eg Major Works we all deferred to Council experts and were passed or not fairly quickly.

On the IAP forum as a member for many years now I have tried to not sweat the small stuff and look at every Pen,Item or Picture as I see it trying to emphasise the positive,fight the uncharitable,unnecessary stuff.

The expression I quoted was from a dyed in the Wood expression by a True Blue Canadian,it put a full stop at the time to petty discussion.This was my aim.

Yes I regard myself as a good friend of many members of this forum,Skippy was dead right not aimed at him nor anyone else merely hoping for uplifting dialogue following Stevens reference to a pen on Video.

Happy New Year everyone.

Peter.
 

bsshog40

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Well I don't care how many segments he ended up with, I am simply amazed at the imagination, work and talent that went into that pen. I've seen some awesome segmented pens shown on this forum also. It amazes me at the talent we have here alone. It takes some pretty good talent to segment and turn a piece of wood down to about 3/8" and have it look like you planned. I consider myself to be fairly talented, but segmenting is a challenge. My hats off to y'all for your work!
 

magpens

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Thanks, PenPal, or Peter, as I usually call you !!

LOL . There never was any thought on my part that you were "targeting" me either.

Although, when you mentioned a "highly respected Turner from Canada" I did take that as a reference to me .... LMAO :biggrin::redface::biggrin:

Anything I wrote, regardless of how awkward it might have come across, was intended entirely to be in good fun, and intended to be a constructive or humourous addition to the dialog.

I did not know that the reference you mentioned of adulterated cornflakes had its origin with a Canadian.

Somehow, I thought that expression began in Australia, as it kind of fits the vernacular that I became accustomed to while living there.

I am fascinated by words and expressions and, consequently, it is good to know its true origin.

Cheers and best wishes to all, and Happy New Year greetings to all !!

In the 1970,s I served following election in an inland cities Governing Body Goulburn City Council as an Alderman.

My observations were the minor matters eg a broken curb on a street received major attention. Detailed submissions eg Major Works we all deferred to Council experts and were passed or not fairly quickly.

On the IAP forum as a member for many years now I have tried to not sweat the small stuff and look at every Pen,Item or Picture as I see it trying to emphasise the positive,fight the uncharitable,unnecessary stuff.

The expression I quoted was from a dyed in the Wood expression by a True Blue Canadian,it put a full stop at the time to petty discussion.This was my aim.

Yes I regard myself as a good friend of many members of this forum,Skippy was dead right not aimed at him nor anyone else merely hoping for uplifting dialogue following Stevens reference to a pen on Video.

Happy New Year everyone.

Peter.
 
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MRDucks2

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Well, I hate to plug anything except the PRETTY RESIN PEN contest, but I must say this whole conversation begets the "put your comments where your skills are" and would challenge the notion that some of your should produce your highest quality segmented pen of many individual pieces glued together against some of you producing your highest quality segmented pen of assemblies cut and glued together for competition in the SEGMENTED PEN CONTEST to see who comes out on top!

Hmm, that probably shouldn't have been one sentence but John is always saying we should use more words. :)


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