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Old 12-31-2017, 09:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Kitless Pen Question

When is a kitless pen considered kitless? I know the nib is purchased, but what abut the feed? Does buying a section, feed and nib (Considered a triple) allow the pen to be kitless?

Do we have to make our own section for the pen to be more custom-made?

The reason I ask is that group buys often include taps for the bock and Jowo units. Trying to understand if this qualifies for what some folks may feel is completely custom.

Thanks for your thoughts.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:24 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Ive been on here less than a year and have seen the same question come up several times. Do a search and youíll find a lot of info. Some have strong feelings on the subject. Me, not so much.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:18 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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And I've been around a number of years and seen the various questions related to kitless. The problem with searches is getting the right words to search on to limit the number of messages returned. Searching for the work "kitless" returned 3193 responses meaning I didn't have the time to read each subject to determine of it had applicability to my question.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:51 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Iíve seen kitless pens made using the triple youíve described as well as a complete front section. Many will also use a purchased clip. I call it a kitless when I make a pen without a kit. No brass tubes or pressed in parts. Everything else is just degrees of ďkitlessĒ. The more you make yourself the more impressed I am.


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Old 12-31-2017, 01:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Buying half the components then calling it a kitless Pen is inaccurate to say the least.
The only time I think itís fair to call a pen kitless is to buy a ballpoint refill and then make the rest. I personally think the word custom is much more applicable than kitless but I know some will disagree.

The pen I made here:

My first cigar Pen

Is very much a custom pen but Iíd never call it a kitless because I used several kit parts to make it.
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Old 12-31-2017, 03:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Actually Rick a triple is a nib, feed and a housing that holds them. The Bock and Jowo taps fit the thread that holds the housing in the section you make. You can buy sections that originate from kits like the El Grande/Churchill that "Custom" makers would turn their nose up at, or you can get a section from a Parker, Lamy, Pilot etc., and be respected. You can also buy sections from Schmidt or Bock to make your custom pens from that would let you make a more budget friendly custom pen. Follow whatever you want to do to get to a pens you like to make. Most custom fountain pen buyers would prefer not to have kit sections but if you only make pens with your own sections, sooner or later someone will want you to make a custom pen with a section from a commercial pen.
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Old 12-31-2017, 05:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Bock sections are very nice but irritatingly have non standard threads for no other reason than they can. Bit pointless to my mind as Bock don’t seem to make taps.
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Old 12-31-2017, 05:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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its difficult to define kitless because we dont have a strict definition enforced by a regulatory body. Kitless does not have to be Rollerball or Fountain pen it can be any style of pen. Its just the most commonly made kitless pens are Rollerball or FP. We have several makers of Cigar and Slim line pens that dont use anything but the transmissions.
Can we agree that if you make a pen from a set of component manufactured parts, using all those parts its a "Kit" made Pen.
If you eliminate one or two of the parts or replace them with parts you made your self it could be considered a Modified kit made pen.
Then we get to the pen that is made with only a couple of kit supplied parts. Maybe a clip and the front section or nose cone. Does that become "Kitless" or a Heavily Modified Kit?
What if all you used were the tubes and ink delivery system and made all the normally supplied hardware yourself? Isnt that kitless?

It really comes down to where you personally want to draw the line and how minute the details become in making that judgement.
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Old 12-31-2017, 05:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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There are taps available for both the #5 and #6 Bock feeds. Classicnib.com carries them as well as the Nibs, feeds and housings.
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Last edited by mredburn; 12-31-2017 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 12-31-2017, 05:48 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodster Will View Post
Bock sections are very nice but irritatingly have non standard threads for no other reason than they can. Bit pointless to my mind as Bock donít seem to make taps.
As far as I know Bock has their own taps.
In the US:
https://www.classicnib.com/feeds-and-taps/taps-detail

UK:
Thread taps for Bock nibs

Germany:
Starbond Europa
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