Interesting...PSI kicking mud at Timberbits

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Carl Fisher

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I'm not on either side and I like both vendors, but thought this was interesting.

Not sure how many of you are on any of the Facebook pen groups, but caught a post this morning from one of the PSI designers slamming Timberbits for a "cheap knock off" of the bolt action kits. He had some pretty nasty things to say about the quality of the kits.
 
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Carl Fisher

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Pen Makers and Pen Turning.

Not sure if they are invite only, but if you PM me your facebook name, I'll see if I can send an invite from the groups.
 
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I find it quite humorous that someone from PSI seems to be a bit perturbed by another company knocking off one of there products. How often have they done that to people here? I understand if the quality is subpar, but otherwise we're talking goose and gander.
 

Smitty37

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Interesting

Since PSI is not above "knocking off" items developed by others themselves i.e. circuit board blanks and others, I find it interesting that they would complain. I also find it interesting that the complaint seems to have been triggered by one phone call .... I don't see anywhere on Timberbits site where they are claiming to be a PSI reseller or implying that their kits are identical to PSI.

BTW - Rizheng is also offering a bolt action kit in several finishes.

PSI Claims the kit is exclusive to them(based on their complaint it is not) and a patent is pending.
 

LagniappeRob

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PSI Claims the kit is exclusive to them(based on their complaint it is not) and a patent is pending.

The website now says "Patented" which indicated the patent was issued. If not they're misrepresenting it. It should read "Patent Pending". But I'm not having much luck finding an issued patent in the USPTO database... makes me wonder.

Edit- It was indeed patented. It's a design patent D682,352 awarded just last month 5/14/13. You can see the patent for yourself, go http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html and put in the patent #.
 
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Whaler

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That post on Facebook has been eliminated. I did order some of those kits from Timberbits and will compare them with the PSI kit and post the results.
 

Carl Fisher

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That it has. I think he realized that he sort of negated his original post by saying that they all buy from the same suppliers and the same platings and in fact was possibly sending business to Timberbits.

Don't think that was well thought out.
 

ed4copies

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I believe the answer is, "Don't bring it into the USA". If your product violates a US patent, as I understand it, Customs can confiscate the shipment.

I would be VERY interested in feedback from any attorneys who KNOW whether this is the case and what would trigger such confiscation.

My thanks to anyone who really KNOWS an answer!!

Ed
 

ed4copies

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The U. S. Customs Service is responsible for combating the flow of infringing goods into the United States. It has statutory authority to decide substantive issues of trademark and copyright infringement, and also works with the US Department of Justice and the Federal Bureau of Investigation on domestic intellectual property matters.

Quote from US Patent and Trademark website.


Since the US Customs has the authority to determine trademark and patent infringement, what "triggers" such an action??
 

brownsfn2

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When your name is on the box they flag the shipment Ed. :)

"Exotic blanks"?? Sounds like a banned substance to me.

(Could not resist)
 

islandturner

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Now let me see.... if I want ten gold bolt action pen kits, should I buy them from PSI or Timberbits? Lets do the math...

PSI
10 X $13.95 = $139.95
+ $31.25 (least expensive shipping offered to Canada - priority post)
+ BC Tax of 12% = $20.49 (on both the kits and shipping charge)
Total: $191.69 (or $19.17 each)


Timberbits
10 X $9 = $90
Shipping: free (by post -- approx 10 business days)
Total: $90.00 (or $9 each)

The Timberbits order is small enough that it won't be tagged at the post office for BC Tax. At over $170 (for the kits and shipping), the PSI order likely will be....

Hmmmmm...
 
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Now let me see.... if I want ten gold bolt action pen kits, should I buy them from PSI or Timberbits? Lets do the math...

PSI
10 X $13.95 = $139.95
+ $31.25 (least expensive shipping offered to Canada - priority post)
+ BC Tax of 12% = $20.49 (on both the kits and shipping charge)
Total: $191.69 (or $19.17 each)

Timberbits
10 X $9 = $90
Shipping: free (by post -- approx 10 business days)
Total: $90.00 (or $9 each)

The Timberbits order is small enough that it won't be tagged at the post office for BC Tax. At over $170 (for the kits and shipping), the PSI order likely will be....

Hmmmmm...

That's a world of difference. I'm curious if they are the same though. If one is a cheap knockoff, and the quality is not there, they aren't event worth the cheaper price.
 

islandturner

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Now let me see.... if I want ten gold bolt action pen kits, should I buy them from PSI or Timberbits? Lets do the math...

PSI
10 X $13.95 = $139.95
+ $31.25 (least expensive shipping offered to Canada - priority post)
+ BC Tax of 12% = $20.49 (on both the kits and shipping charge)
Total: $191.69 (or $19.17 each)

Timberbits
10 X $9 = $90
Shipping: free (by post -- approx 10 business days)
Total: $90.00 (or $9 each)

The Timberbits order is small enough that it won't be tagged at the post office for BC Tax. At over $170 (for the kits and shipping), the PSI order likely will be....

Hmmmmm...

That's a world of difference. I'm curious if they are the same though. If one is a cheap knockoff, and the quality is not there, they aren't event worth the cheaper price.

Very true!


I've bought over a hundred kits from David and never had a bad one. So I'll be surprised if there is any issue with quality with these. It will be interesting to hear what others think of them...
 

ed4copies

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Since PSI is not above "knocking off" items developed by others themselves i.e. circuit board blanks and others, I find it interesting that they would complain. I also find it interesting that the complaint seems to have been triggered by one phone call .... I don't see anywhere on Timberbits site where they are claiming to be a PSI reseller or implying that their kits are identical to PSI.

BTW - Rizheng is also offering a bolt action kit in several finishes.

PSI Claims the kit is exclusive to them(based on their complaint it is not) and a patent is pending.

Coincidentally, Timberbits offers the same platings as Rizheng!!:eek::eek: Even more amazing, NEITHER chose the Gunmetal, which is the most popular. One might guess that the same company was the source for both "vendors".
 

Smitty37

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I believe the answer is, "Don't bring it into the USA". If your product violates a US patent, as I understand it, Customs can confiscate the shipment.

I would be VERY interested in feedback from any attorneys who KNOW whether this is the case and what would trigger such confiscation.

My thanks to anyone who really KNOWS an answer!!

Ed
That would be interesting to know --- my take on it is this:
1. Enforcement would be difficult - since most of the imports of pen kits the customs documents say "pen kits" or "pen parts" without specifying the retail name.

2. Most of the pen kits/parts imported are not protected by US Patents so even if the shipment is opened by customs (most are not) the agent would have to know exactly what to look for to determine if it was an infringement or just another pen kit.

3. I can't imagine that there would ever be enough of those specific kits imported for the US Government to begin searching for them on their own.
Even though nearly all pen kits sold by USA Vendors are foreign made, I doubt that the total quantity imported amounts to more than a blip considering all imports. Most pen sellers import the whole assembled pens not just kits.

4. I can't even imagine what would "trigger" customs to start looking for something like this, unless it was a specific complaint made against items to a specific vendor or from a specific vendor.

Just as an aside, Dayacom lists a patent number (they must be Taiwanese) for many of their items.

It is also interesting knowing from personal experience, that patents can be granted that won't stand up when companies try to enforce them. It happened frequently in the electronics industry which is why nearly all electronics manufacturers have cross licensing agreements.
 
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