Individual responsibility

[pastorbill1952]

Have been away for a while so don't know if this is a repeat but I find it interesting, amusing, & needing to be heard.
North Dakota News Bulletin

(For those of you who are not aware, North Dakota and southwestern Montana got hit with their first blizzard of the season a couple of weeks ago)

This text is from county emergency manager out in the western part of North Dakota state after the storm.

Amusing...



WEATHER BULLETIN

Up here in the Northern Plains we just recovered from a Historic event --- may I even say a "Weather Event" of "Biblical Proportions" --- with a historic blizzard of up to 24" inches of snow and winds to 50 MPH that broke trees in half, stranded hundreds of motorists in lethal snow banks, closed all roads, isolated scores of communities and cut power to 10's of thousands.


George Bush did not come....
FEMA staged nothing....
No one howled for the government...
No one even uttered an expletive on TV...
Nobody demanded $2,000 debit cards.....
No one asked for a FEMA Trailer House....
No news anchors moved in.


We just melted snow for water, sent out caravans to pluck people out of snow engulfed cars, fired up wood stoves, broke out coal oil lanterns or Aladdin lamps and put on an extra layer of clothes.

Even though a Category "5" blizzard of this scale has never fallen this early...we know it can happen and how to deal with it ourselves.

Everybody is fine.

Imagine a world where everyone takes responsibilty for themselves w/o expecting ot even needing the gov't.

 

[mick]

Pastor , first welcome back We've missed you!
Your post sounds like what folks in Alabama did in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, when the relief workers and Red Cross and such started moving in to South Alabama they were told to head on down the road to someone who really needed em. We picked up the pieces got things going again and then ......followed the relief caravan on down the road to help someone who really needed em....lol

 

[arjudy]

In a perfect world......

 

[timdaleiden]

When I was a child, I remember hearing a story that Jesus had told about a "Good Samaritanâ€. I think the story was about helping others, even if they aren’t a part of your group. I don’t think it was about pointing fingers and asking, “Why don’t you help yourself?â€

One of the reasons we all contribute to the tax pool, is so that when something really awful happens, some help will be available, even if you just make burgers at McDonalds, or are physically disabled.

Tim

 

[alamocdc]

Good point, Bill! Whole different perspecive in that part of the country. Kind of refreshing, really. If it wasn't so blamed cold, we wouldn't have sold the ranch! []

 

[pastorbill1952]

Tim, I am aware of the story of the Good Samaritan but it is not denying the individual's responsibilty. Too many want the government to step in and do for them what they should be doing for themselves. I have no problem with helping those in need but they need to do as muchg as they can for themselves before they call the government. That was the point of the story.

 

[Gary Max]

Oh come on Bill---surely you ain't saying that there are a bunch of folks in this country that would rather get a hand out instead of getting off the backsides and doing for themselves---surely that aint the case.
My burst of sarcasm for the day----hehehehehehe

 

[wdcav1952]

And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

The above is quoted from Luke Chapter 10 Verse 30. At this point the man no longer had the ability to help himself and needed the assistance of others. No decent person should turn away from those helpless and in need. However, those who are still able should help themselves should do so before crying out for help. I take the liberty of assuming that this is what Pastor Bill meant.

 

[cozee]

I have to agree with PAstor Bill. Especially since the BIble has been brought into the discussion. Yes, it tells us to help others, however, there are many more passages which speak about laziness and what the lazy man should expect to receive, or not receive. The Bible is clear about us taking responsibility for ourselves, about being diligent.

The focus should be on the words lazy and able.

I am sure that if the man who was beaten in Luke 10 had been warned of the impending danger he would have taken another route or have used any avenue of escape at his disposal. This is different than just sitting there waiting for calamity to come.

 

[Paul in OKC]

This is different than just sitting there waiting for calamity to come.

True. Proverbs says the wise man heeds a warning, but the fool laughs and continues on.

 

[timdaleiden]

I guess some here have much less compassion than Jesus did.

 

[wdcav1952]

Originally posted by timdaleiden
<br />I guess some here have much less compassion than Jesus did.

Please allow me to be the first to admit that I do not measure up to Jesus.

I really doubt that Pastor Bill or anyone else who posted with genuine feelings would desire to deny help to those in genuine need. However the gangs that roamed my beloved New Orleans looting and stocking up on essential nutrition such as all the beer they could haul, deserve the contempt that Jesus dealt to the moneychangers and those who turned his house into a den of thieves.

 

[timdaleiden]

I wasn't trying to defend looters of non-essentials, was I?

I was kind of shocked that he made this post in the first place. It just didn't sound very Christian to me, and probably inappropriate for a penturning forum to begin with.

Tim

 

[Woodbutcher68]

Originally posted by wdcav1952
<br />And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

To bring the story up to date, substitute the public for the man, Washington for Jerico and politicians or oil companies for the thieves.

 

[darbytee]

Hey, I've got an idea. Let's blow this completely out of proportion.

 

[PenWorks]

HHmmmmmmm....Religion, Politics & Penturning allways make for wonderfull debates..[]

 

[wayneis]

Tim I agree with you. When I read that I was shocked and couldn't think of a fitting response. All I could picture were that thousands at the convention center, or the old and crippled sitting on the freeway over passes, or the lucky ones that made it to a shelter only to have no idea what happened to their kids and loved ones. Sometimes when you are so devistated you just can't do anything for yourself, I know because I've seen it with my own eyes.

Wayne

Originally posted by timdaleiden
<br />I wasn't trying to defend looters of non-essentials, was I?

I was kind of shocked that he made this post in the first place. It just didn't sound very Christian to me, and probably inappropriate for a penturning forum to begin with.

Tim

 

[Paul in OKC]

There deffinately were some things that could have been done better in LA, but when we stop looking at the government for hand outs, things will get better. Our taxes were not intended for this. In fact foreign aid, and benevelence(sp) funds are unconstitutional in the first place. There are those that just think the government should take care of every little need they 'think' they have. Not saying there weren't real needs there because there truely were.
( Hey, just think of how boring this would be if we were all just little mono-tone folks[][] )

 

[airrat]

Tim it was posted under the Casual Conv forum. It does not have to be about pen turning.

I will agree some people take advantage of our governmental system. They sit on their bottoms and expect everyone else (the govt) to do everything for them. (this does not include those elderly that could not do anything due to health) I too feel people need to start being responsible for themselves and not always expect the help. It will not always be there.

 

[rtparso]

Tim,

The bible is a book of balance while it does talk about giving it also states: [2 Th 3:10 for even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."]. When I give to the poor they get 100% when the government takes my taxes and gives it to the poor they get less then 10%. I have worked with the poor (and been poor). Of the people living on government assistance I can tell you that while some are looking for a help up most I have dealt with are looking for a handout. It becomes addicting. BTW I chose not to accept a gov handout. I have been unemployed (underempoyed) twice since I have been maried both times for 6 months and I could always find work. It just was not what I liked, but I did it.

 

[cozee]

I guess some here have much less compassion than Jesus did.

I in no way meant that those who have suffered the hurricanes do not deserve any help. What I was attempting to convey by citing scripture was simply that many of those who were "victims" were so because they shirked their responsibility. I have nothing but heart felt concern for those who were unable to tend to themselves. But what about those who were able to not only tend to themselves but also to those who were unable yet they did neither?

As for the compassion of Jesus, we should not forget as mentioned in a recent post that the Bible, as Jesus, shows us a balance. Jesus was compassionate yes, but He also called a woman and her children dogs, He told a man He called to minstry to let the dead bury the dead when the man asked to return home to bury his father. When one disciple inquired about the future of another, Jesus asked him what business was it of his what the future of the other disciple was to be. And lastly, He will say to those who will be gathered on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels." Yes, Jesus is compassionate but He also expects something from us.


Jesus show us fine examples of compassion to follow. He went about teaching, preaching, and healing. He was meeting the needs of the people. And in that compassion we are to not just meet the needs of those we are helping but we are to help, encourage, provoke, even rebuke unto good works. This means that we are to teach them also. The old adage of "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"is the priciple here. I'll help them so as to be able to teach them also. Then they are able to take responsibility for themselves and then be able to teach others also.

Responsibility is a choice. Sadly, many choose to be irresposible and demand that others take care of them.

 

[timdaleiden]

Just a few things. This is a casual conversation forum. I think "casual" is the key word here. You know, "lighthearted" topics and such. That would be nice. []

Having said that, I will now break my own rules. [:0]

I am not sure why some people have compared "emergency" assistance to other sorts of assistance, which are arguably harmful to the people receiving them. Was everybody that was harmed by Katrina on welfare? Were they the working poor? Were they too lazy to leave? Were they too old or afraid to leave their houses? Were they physically disabled and unable to leave? I am not sure it matters much when something that devastating happens. It was a mess, and a mess that the government knew might happen.

We are talking about one of the worst natural disasters that this country ever went through. We are not talking about a snowstorm.

And lastly, yes, the Bible is a big book, and you can find all sorts of things in it. I don’t think we want to turn this into a Bible debate board. Jeff may run out of locks. [B)]

Tim

 

[rtparso]

All I have to add is talk to people that were in New Orleans during the aftermath. Most if not all of the people that remained after the evacuation could have left if they chose to leave. (personal responsibility) The Mayor and the Governor refused to follow the advise of experts and then blamed others. (lack of personal responsibility) Emergency management professionals had helped the local authorities setup an evacuation plan and ran practice drills but when it came time to follow the plan the local officials failed to follow the plan and then blamed everyone else. (lack of personal responsibility, and lack of a brain) I think that is what pastorbill was saying when he said Imagine a world where everyone takes responsibility for themselves.

 

[melogic]

Well,
We can't settle all of the worlds problems here. I think this horse has been beaten enough. I am locking this thread.