How to know the difference

[DJBPenmaker]

There probably is no quick answer to this but how do you know if a pen kit supplier is selling quality kits at a reasonable price or selling overpriced cheap kits. Nobody seems to quote plating thickness and finishes but prices for similar looking kits vary wildly.

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[wood-of-1kind]

You get to know from 'personal' experience who's quality of pen kits work for you both from a quality and reasonable price point charged. Personally I think that Dayacom kits offer good value relative to quality of kits that they sell. PSI offers cheaper prices but personally I don't think that their quality is as good. CSUSA offers goods kits at a good quality/price point. Berea is also good for quality/price as well. I have used kits from all three and personal experience has led me to come to conclude who offers the best quality for the best price point. And of course I must repeat that these conclusions are 'personally' derived from using kits from all of the Big 3.

 

[DJBPenmaker]

You get to know from 'personal' experience who's quality of pen kits work for you both from a quality and reasonable price point charged. Personally I think that Dayacom kits offer good value relative to quality of kits that they sell. PSI offers cheaper prices but personally I don't think that their quality is as good. CSUSA offers goods kits at a good quality/price point. Berea is also good for quality/price as well. I have used kits from all three and personal experience has led me to come to conclude who offers the best quality for the best price point. And of course I must repeat that these conclusions are 'personally' derived from using kits from all of the Big 3.

Thank you, that does help, however It just seems odd that you can't know up front which quality of kit you are buying, it's also a bit tough on your customer when you sell them what you believe to be a quality kit based on price and then at some point in the future it turns out it isn't.
I was hoping that some suppliers might jump in here but it doesn't look as if they are going to. Maybe they are just as confused as i am

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[jttheclockman]

Derek, not sure how much pen turning you have done in the past but if you have done some you get to know who or what vendors carry quality kits. Some vendors carry different line of kits and they vary in quality but usually the price will tell you. You mention plating, no way to ever know the amount of plating on anyone's kits and that includes any big name kits. You can narrow plating problems down by buying certain types of platings such as silver, chrome, titanium stainless steel and others in that field. You get into problems with gold, fancy colored, bronze or antique coatings and such. Do some searching here and you will discover there have been threads on this subject. Being in the UK I assume you deal with vendors over there so it is a little harder to rate them from the US. Just have a warrenty policy in place when selling because no matter whose kit or what plating they wear out. A commodity like a pen that gets use as much will wear just like your car.

 

[ed4copies]

IF supplier "A" makes a statement, several others will disagree. That starts useless bickering.

Find a supplier you trust and speak with them, privately.

 

[DJBPenmaker]

Derek, not sure how much pen turning you have done in the past but if you have done some you get to know who or what vendors carry quality kits. Some vendors carry different line of kits and they vary in quality but usually the price will tell you. You mention plating, no way to ever know the amount of plating on anyone's kits and that includes any big name kits. You can narrow plating problems down by buying certain types of platings such as silver, chrome, titanium stainless steel and others in that field. You get into problems with gold, fancy colored, bronze or antique coatings and such. Do some searching here and you will discover there have been threads on this subject. Being in the UK I assume you deal with vendors over there so it is a little harder to rate them from the US. Just have a warrenty policy in place when selling because no matter whose kit or what plating they wear out. A commodity like a pen that gets use as much will wear just like your car.

Thanks, I have bought from the US and Australia and I must say that in the absence of any info to the contrary I tend to go for the various Titanium finishes, Rhodiums etc because I figure they should be more durable. Time will tell.
We are starved of choice here compared to you guys [emoji45]

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[DJBPenmaker]

IF supplier "A" makes a statement, several others will disagree. That starts useless bickering.

Find a supplier you trust and speak with them, privately.

Good point.

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[Ted iin Michigan]

I'm not a PSI basher. Not going to get involved in one of THOSE discussions. I believe Penn State sells from a variety of sources and I'm thinking one of those might be Dayacom. Some of their offerings are for the true beginner, and some seem like real good stuff. For example, I like their Vertex (I know some don't). But it's been a reliable performer and a good seller for me. Plus, it comes with a real nice refill. Doesn't say "Dayacom" but...

Addressing your original question - guess you have to do your research (sounds like you are into that already) and then try out some candidates. Your gut may be helpful in weeding out some or keeping others. And then there's the old truth - you get what you pay for (mostly).

 

[edstreet]

There probably is no quick answer to this but how do you know if a pen kit supplier is selling quality kits at a reasonable price or selling overpriced cheap kits. Nobody seems to quote plating thickness and finishes but prices for similar looking kits vary wildly.

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This is a very deep subject and one you have to really know the pen kit market to answer correctly. Your location is flooded with cheap quality kits from China, namely Rizheng There are a few that stock Dayacom but most do not. Two vendors you should look at, that is Phil Dart and Dan Smith. Both have made some off market kits for the community that are exceptional quality.

Plating thickness is one of the hardest topics to discuss. Typically prices vary widely for similar looking kits because of the quality differences in the kits. Its not only base metal but the plating, the plastics, also the handling of the parts makes a HUGE difference as well. Long story short is you should be looking at who makes the kit. having a truth worthy vendor does help but to locate one while being new to the community is not easy. You would first have to look at quality kits and know the difference then look at who is selling what and what they say. Some truths will become very obvious the more you work with the products.

I'm not a PSI basher. Not going to get involved in one of THOSE discussions. I believe Penn State sells from a variety of sources and I'm thinking one of those might be Dayacom. Some of their offerings are for the true beginner, and some seem like real good stuff. For example, I like their Vertex (I know some don't). But it's been a reliable performer and a good seller for me. Plus, it comes with a real nice refill. Doesn't say "Dayacom" but...

Addressing your original question - guess you have to do your research (sounds like you are into that already) and then try out some candidates. Your gut may be helpful in weeding out some or keeping others. And then there's the old truth - you get what you pay for (mostly).

I have it on very good authority (read you can take this to the bank) that Dayacom refuses to sell products to PSI. They use to in the past but relations were strained and things went sideways. Now many other vendors buys Dayacom's products and to date I only know of 3 vendors who are on the "do not sell to" list.

 

[DJBPenmaker]

There probably is no quick answer to this but how do you know if a pen kit supplier is selling quality kits at a reasonable price or selling overpriced cheap kits. Nobody seems to quote plating thickness and finishes but prices for similar looking kits vary wildly.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

This is a very deep subject and one you have to really know the pen kit market to answer correctly. Your location is flooded with cheap quality kits from China, namely Rizheng There are a few that stock Dayacom but most do not. Two vendors you should look at, that is Phil Dart and Dan Smith. Both have made some off market kits for the community that are exceptional quality.

Plating thickness is one of the hardest topics to discuss. Typically prices vary widely for similar looking kits because of the quality differences in the kits. Its not only base metal but the plating, the plastics, also the handling of the parts makes a HUGE difference as well. Long story short is you should be looking at who makes the kit. having a truth worthy vendor does help but to locate one while being new to the community is not easy. You would first have to look at quality kits and know the difference then look at who is selling what and what they say. Some truths will become very obvious the more you work with the products.

I'm not a PSI basher. Not going to get involved in one of THOSE discussions. I believe Penn State sells from a variety of sources and I'm thinking one of those might be Dayacom. Some of their offerings are for the true beginner, and some seem like real good stuff. For example, I like their Vertex (I know some don't). But it's been a reliable performer and a good seller for me. Plus, it comes with a real nice refill. Doesn't say "Dayacom" but...

Addressing your original question - guess you have to do your research (sounds like you are into that already) and then try out some candidates. Your gut may be helpful in weeding out some or keeping others. And then there's the old truth - you get what you pay for (mostly).

I have it on very good authority (read you can take this to the bank) that Dayacom refuses to sell products to PSI. They use to in the past but relations were strained and things went sideways. Now many other vendors buys Dayacom's products and to date I only know of 3 vendors who are on the "do not sell to" list.

That is fantastic thank you. I've figured out who the two vendors are with the help of Google and both look good. I'll have a longer look in the morning (it's 1.30 a.m here) thanks[emoji4]

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[AP-PENS]

uk pen trader

Taylor Mirfield has good kits and has a new all british made pen kit available made in stainless steel I have the rollerball version

 

[DJBPenmaker]

Taylor Mirfield has good kits and has a new all british made pen kit available made in stainless steel I have the rollerball version

Thank you

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[Skie_M]

Quick and Easy way? sure .... cheap? hell no.


Take the kits you have questions about .... and DESTROY THEM.

I mean it, literally ... see what it takes to break the kit and wear away the finish. Final test, take a newly turned pen from that kit line and RUN IT OVER WITH YOUR CAR to see the damage.

If you really want to see the quality of workmanship and protection that the parts actually have, your only real choices are to take someone's word for it (like the manufacturer) or to destroy the kits yourself to make the determination.


My method of choice would be to take the kit over to my belt sander and grinding away the finished surfaces of the parts to see just how thick that plating REALLY is .... Once you know that, and can compare to the cheaper or more expensive kits, you'll know who's putting out real quality and who's not playing ball....


But when you really get down to it, does it really matter? A pen is a writing instrument, not a weapon to be used in a battlefield. The plating thickness, as long as it holds up to it's environs and it's owner's treatment of it, is irrelevant. If they are grinding away the finish to see how durable it is, I'm pretty sure that that kind of abuse is outside the warranty (implied or otherwise) for replacement/repair free of charge ...

On the other hand ... when they walk into your shop area or display area and see pens that YOU have subjected to such treatment in order to show THEM what the pen is really made of inside .... well, that's just a way to ensure that your customers understand and appreciate the pen components and may help them to understand how best to protect their investment. (Also shows that you are committed to discovering the best quality you can find for them .... or that you need to be committed for wasting money, in your wife's eyes ... )

 

[jttheclockman]

Wow Skie, can you do all the testing for us:biggrin::biggrin: make a chart so we can post in the library. Also add some photos. Like to see you do that with an Imperial kit. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[DJBPenmaker]

Quick and Easy way? sure .... cheap? hell no.


Take the kits you have questions about .... and DESTROY THEM.

I mean it, literally ... see what it takes to break the kit and wear away the finish. Final test, take a newly turned pen from that kit line and RUN IT OVER WITH YOUR CAR to see the damage.

If you really want to see the quality of workmanship and protection that the parts actually have, your only real choices are to take someone's word for it (like the manufacturer) or to destroy the kits yourself to make the determination.


My method of choice would be to take the kit over to my belt sander and grinding away the finished surfaces of the parts to see just how thick that plating REALLY is .... Once you know that, and can compare to the cheaper or more expensive kits, you'll know who's putting out real quality and who's not playing ball....


But when you really get down to it, does it really matter? A pen is a writing instrument, not a weapon to be used in a battlefield. The plating thickness, as long as it holds up to it's environs and it's owner's treatment of it, is irrelevant. If they are grinding away the finish to see how durable it is, I'm pretty sure that that kind of abuse is outside the warranty (implied or otherwise) for replacement/repair free of charge ...

On the other hand ... when they walk into your shop area or display area and see pens that YOU have subjected to such treatment in order to show THEM what the pen is really made of inside .... well, that's just a way to ensure that your customers understand and appreciate the pen components and may help them to understand how best to protect their investment. (Also shows that you are committed to discovering the best quality you can find for them .... or that you need to be committed for wasting money, in your wife's eyes ... )

That would make some good YouTube videos!
My main concern was how long a plating or mechanism might last in normal daily use, a few months or a few years? There seem to be no standards​ to judge by as outwardly the standard kits all look the same but vary greatly in cost.


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[Skie_M]

Lol ... I certainly don't have the money to do that kind of destructive testing... I just told everybody how I would go about it if I really wanted to go that far to check the quality.

I don't have a wife ... wouldn't stop my family from having me committed to a mental institution if I started doing that kind of destructive testing on brand new unused pens and pen kits.


Now, on the other hand ... if you folks would kindly send me old, damaged, destroyed, returned, abused, ect pens that you've turned over the years for such testing purposes, I'ld happily set up a chart with high res pics for all to take a gander... Feel free to remove re-useable pen components and barrels that you can use on future kits!




As to how long a plating will last .... that's why we have what we call a "carry pen" ... something that we carry with us in our daily lives for day in and day out use. It might be for checking how long the plating will last, how long the shine of the finish will last, or how well the click or twist mechanism works, or even how well the silly thing writes. Many of us swap out our "carry pen" for another, just for variety or to check something else out over time or even just to change up your "advertising" by using them in our daily lives.


PSI's kits are generally considered more on the "cheap" end, if I remember correctly ... and even they have pretty much a lifetime guarantee on their 24kt gold plated pens, which are actually enamel coated over the soft gold to prevent the gold from wearing off from daily handling and use.

Now ... if a pen is made with a plating that isn't corrosion proof (like chrome, stainless steel, rhodium, gold, or platinum) and isn't epoxy coated or protected from your skin's acidic oils or daily use and abuse, then the plating will eventually fail. Routine maintenance and care are essential in protecting a customer's investment .... let them know that they will need to buff and polish their pen occasionally to maintain it's brilliant shine, or that they can bring it back to you and you'll take care of such things for them. You can even bump your price up a bit and say that such routine maintenance is included in the purchase price.


(will be waiting for this "Imperial" kit pen that John is kindly volunteering to donate ... :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: )

 

[jttheclockman]

I will will you one when I pass onto that pen turning heaven.

 

[DJBPenmaker]

Taylor Mirfield has good kits and has a new all british made pen kit available made in stainless steel I have the rollerball version

I've looked at Taylor mirfield as suggested but can't find a steel pen on their site. Do you remember what the kit was called?

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[tom wood]

Go with a name brand company like Exotic Blanks. They sell good kits and stand behind what they sell...tom

 

[DJBPenmaker]

Taylor Mirfield has good kits and has a new all british made pen kit available made in stainless steel I have the rollerball version

I've looked at Taylor mirfield as suggested but can't find a steel pen on their site. Do you remember what the kit was called?

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Nudge nudge[emoji4]

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[Skie_M]

Had a look through their entire site ... doesn't exist.

They do have a stainless steel braided blank for one of their Zeta pen kits, however ...

 

[TurtleTom]

Signature Pen Supply has some Dayacom kits.

 

[DJBPenmaker]

Signature Pen Supply has some Dayacom kits.

Thanks for that. Thing is I'm looking at UK suppliers.

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[Curly]

https://www.britishmadepenkits.com

This is the one for your side of the pond. They make it.

 

[DJBPenmaker]

https://www.britishmadepenkits.com

This is the one for your side of the pond. They make it.

Hey thanks for that. Never came across them before. Just shows, needed someone halfway across the world [emoji5]

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[PenPal]

Signature Pen Supply has some Dayacom kits.

Thanks for that. Thing is I'm looking at UK suppliers.

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I am surprised and dismayed mate you belong to UK Penturners this week there has been three Shakespeare pen kits displayed on this site. The kit was developed by a member on that forum, then promoted by Taylor Mirfield who have an impeccable reputation for searching out and stocking only first class pen kits, nibs, refills etc. In the UK you can and do purchase from Timberbits with outstanding delivery ,pricing and service. You are well served by so many retailers as well.

The Shakespeare kit is Stainless in polished or matte surfaces, a rather large pen of substance and character I envy their production quality. Taylor Mirfield use the best of European refills and world class nibs.

This is not advertising simply facts that tell me you are well served in the UK.

In the United States there are many reputable and competent dealers.

The idea that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence look at here in Australia imagine our buying power when the population of Australia is less than most other countries one city.

Dominating the penmaking scene is China either side of that sea who dominate the worlds production. So there you have it China to UK, China to Australia, China to The USA etc.

Unique pen kits are made in the USA and UK you happen to be more fortunate than us in Australia without the enormous variety of kits imported to the USA.

WE are well served in Australia by a trend setting Timberbits with a number of dealers in so many firms in the US.

Kind regards ....Peter.

 

[DJBPenmaker]

Hi Peter
I know the grass isn't greener in AUS cos it's too dry but joking apart, I would say that for sheer choice and variety of kits and the variety of finishes available in them, that Timberbits beats any retailer I know of in the UK. I have used Timberbits and was very pleased and I managed to get away without paying import duty however I know others who were less fortunate and that plus the shipping costs. Well you can imagine!
Looks like I'll have to buy small amounts from a number of different vendors to get what I want.
Cheers, Derek

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[edstreet]

Isn't timberbits blacklisted by some manufacturers?

 

[DJBPenmaker]

Isn't timberbits blacklisted by some manufacturers?

Not heard anything from any other sources, maybe someone out there has an answer?

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[magpens]

Isn't timberbits blacklisted by some manufacturers?

For what reason(s), Ed ? ... if you prefer, please PM me.