Hall Of Fame

[jttheclockman]

I think this was brought up once before if i recall but I do not remember if it ever took on any legs. So I will bring it up again. What is the membership feeling of starting a Hall of Fame for pens. This would be the ELITE pens that grace the pages here. There would have to be certain criteria to be considered. This would be worked out by the membership. Then there could be a ballot voting like they do in baseball. I know they use the writers to vote but maybe we can try the membership voting if it does not become a ballot box stuffing thing. I know we have the front page thing but that is chosen by one person. We also have all the contests at the bash but this would be above all that. Half those pens would not make the Hall of Fame but for the year they were the best. Not every year does a pen or pens have to enter the Hall of Fame.

I am sure alot of tweeking would be needed with this idea but just throwing it out there. Maybe this will inspire others to step up their game. Maybe it is just me but I just think that this forum can do so much better than what it shows. We had the Pen World contest and it did not bring out the best of the best. We have the Bash contests and there you get a sense of some of the talent that is here but still that is one time a year. Why not strive all year round for that most outstanding pen. Believe me you do not and I say this again and again, you do not need CNC machines or special equipment. I have shown that with my jig that I put out there for anyone to copy. There are many more types of jigs that can be made to accomplish something special. Mike has shown tons of examples of segmented blanks. No special equipment used there. Skip has shown many ideas using some basic equipment. Now the acid etching stuff is abit far fetched and definetly not for everyone but the option is there. Casting is huge and I am not talking just mixing a whole bunch of colors for that in my opinion will not get you into the Hall of Fame but ideas can grow from them.

Ok I threw it out there and lets see what the members say. Thanks for reading.

PS: no steroids allowed. There will be drug tests:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[GoodTurns]

...There will be drug tests:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

You had me on board right up to there....;>

 

[Crashmph]

I kind of like this idea. It is growing on me.

 

[SerenityWoodWorks]

This has to be kept from a popularity contest and submission based on merit, there should be different classes to the hall, ie. kit pen, kittless, caster, tool maker, ect. there should be a blind committee to judge entries to narrow down the pens for submission. And Pens should have to be submitted not pictures. A blind mail box where you send you pens into and a form that you download from this site to enter. No where on the form is a place for a name, just a code word/number that the builder chooses. Once the pen has been judged there will be a place on the forum where the pitcure of the pen is posted and then you can claim it as yours with the proper code. Each submission should cost $25, this will cover shipping it back to you and provide a bit of income to the site. This will also cut down on the "oh why not try with this pen" ..just a few ideas....

 

[Richard Gibson]

Feelings will get hurt and a "competition" will begin. I think this forum is for sharing ideas and helping others. People asking for comments of their posted pen is fine but when we begin to "judge" them, I don't feel this is the place to do it.

 

[ChrisN]

I think it's a good idea. I also like the idea of sending actual pens in, not just submitting pictures. Maybe you could use the pictures to narrow down the selection, and the pens that pass that would be sent in to be judged in person.

 

[mredburn]

I think he meant the pens Jon.:biggrin: Anyway I hope he meant the pens.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Mike do you really mean my A Rod and Bonds pens won't qualify, crap now my feelings are hurt.

 

[D.Oliver]

Mike do you really mean my A Rod and Bonds pens won't qualify, crap now my feelings are hurt.

That's okay, you can still submit the pen your made from Sosa's corked bat.

 

[mredburn]

For the sake of argument, lets tackle some of the criteria that would need to be defined.

Can you request and submit for your own pen?
Can the membership at large submit a pen for consideration?
Will a panel of members be the only ones to submit pens for consideration.

Will the pen need to be examined in person by someone for quality assurances or is a pretty picture enough. Its really just a pretty pen picture you would be posting in the forum.
Different classes or types or pens?

Will bash winners or front page pens chosen by Jeff be automatically qualified?

 

[SerenityWoodWorks]

For the sake of argument, lets tackle some of the criteria that would need to be defined.

Can you request and submit for your own pen?
(YES)

Can the membership at large submit a pen for consideration?
(NO the builder must due this him self and pay the fee)

Will a panel of members be the only ones to submit pens for consideration.
(A panel choosen by the owner of the website (Jeff) (3-5 people) would be the ones choosing)

Will the pen need to be examined in person by someone for quality assurances or is a pretty picture enough. Its really just a pretty pen picture you would be posting in the forum.
(The Pen will need to be sent into a blind mailbox, the pen will NOT be judged on pictures)

Different classes or types or pens?
(Kit pens and Kitless Pens)

Will bash winners or front page pens chosen by Jeff be automatically qualified?

(They will qualify for submission, but the pen will still need to be sent in for inspection and fee paid)

 

[thewishman]

Isn't a Hall of Fame all about popularity?

 

[jttheclockman]

Yes I meant pens Was trying to keep the baseball theme with all this steroid talk and Hall of Fame.

I do not think front page pens are automatic candidates. Like I said those are one person's choice that make it to the front page. Those are like the flavor of the month pens and you may only get one outstanding pen per year.

Not sure how I feel about catagories because I do not want this to be a contest. I want the cream of the crop to rise to the top. Now how we get there is the huge question. The thing about sending the pen to a committee is fine but there maybe pens from past members who by far belong there but are unable to send the pens in for inspection. Not looking to make this a Guild thing either.

I don't know. Maybe I am reaching for something that can not be achieved objectively.

 

[jttheclockman]

Isn't a Hall of Fame all about popularity?

You would definetly hope not. As in Baseball you have to have something to back up your acceptance and in that case it is numbers. In this case it is about a unique and outstanding pen. I think we all know what a run of the mill pen looks like. I would not be interested in any famous woods being entered either unless something is done to enhance them.

 

[Paul in OKC]

Sounds like it would be the IAP version of the Pen Makers Guild.

 

[mredburn]

Im not sure how you would keep it from ending up being a popularity contest. If you established a base line criteria and had an odd number of judges that reviewed the pictures based on that criteria, they then vote to allow it to procede or not, and then a vote by the membership on the pen not knowing whose pen it was.
But what about trends in pen designs? PC blanks. 360 herringbone, todays OMG can be tomorrows ho-hum. How do you judge a pen submitted that is a basic copy of one submitted and excepted with a minor detail changed. Are only original designs accepted? How small a difference is pass /fail trigger.

I foresee problems with judge bias. One judge hates cnc, one likes metal pens more than resin or wood one. One doesnt like kits or orange colors. etc.

I guess you would first have to decide on the criteria needed for submission. Then for acceptance and who and how that would be judged. Is good pen porn like any other porn? I cant define it but I know it when I see it!

 

[firewhatfire]

isnt that what the PMG was created for.

 

[jttheclockman]

Well here is a challenge for anyone who wants to give it a try. I just looked. From today and dating back to the first of the year ( if that is what people would like to see) there are 99 pages in Show off your pen forum. Go through them and pick out the best of the best and post them here. It is alot easier than it sounds. You would be looking for that WOW factor pen. Believe me when I say this you can probably count on one hand those pens. If you are truely objective.

 

[Dale Lynch]

I"m game.

 

[jttheclockman]

I"m game.

Go for it and really try to be objective. Do not look at how the pen was made but just look for that WOW factor. Also do not let friendship stand in the way.

 

[jttheclockman]

Sounds like it would be the IAP version of the Pen Makers Guild.

Maybe you are correct.

 

[BayouPenturner]

we need to be careful, this is a great forum where ideas are shared. I think there many opportunities to share and seeing many of the pens here, the few elite turners would always be on top. some of you are so creative I will never do anything but wish to 1/4 as good.

I would hate to see anything cause negative feelings on this forum. I noticed some minor topics cause quite a lot of discussions.

I am ok with it but be careful.

 

[jttheclockman]

we need to be careful, this is a great forum where ideas are shared. I think there many opportunities to share and seeing many of the pens here, the few elite turners would always be on top. some of you are so creative I will never do anything but wish to 1/4 as good.

I would hate to see anything cause negative feelings on this forum. I noticed some minor topics cause quite a lot of discussions.

I am ok with it but be careful.

I disagree with this way of thinking. My thoughts are this. Yes there are some very talented pen makers here and to me this is what drives others. Their talents should be showcased in some way so that they are archieved for others that come here can view what it takes to be elite. Let those elite people lead the way for us moderate pen makers. No everyone will not fall in the elite catagory but why should that hold others from trying.

I can not see how any negative feelings can come out of someone showing the rest of us new and innovative ideas. If Einstein listened to that way of thinking where would we be today??? I just went through some old posts because I did think this was brought up before and it was in 2008 and it fell on deaf ears then too. Like I said maybe it is too much to ask. We are not ready for something like this.

 

[OLDMAN5050]

This would wind up being a popularity contest. Lets keep this forum as a learning and sharing forum..... Just my 2 cents worth..

 

[LL Woodworks]

This would wind up being a popularity contest. Lets keep this forum as a learning and sharing forum..... Just my 2 cents worth..

I Agree with that!

 

[mredburn]

This forum has survived more than one period where there were "less than civil" even down right rude threads and posts. We survived them and we still share. I doubt a forum of extra pretty pens would cause that much trouble. I dont see it evolving into an IAP Guild scenario. The major hurdle continues to be criteria and judges/judging.

 

[leaycraft]

Isnt this what the Guild is all about?

 

[mredburn]

One way to over come that might be to have Jeff appoint a panel of say 5 judges. They would remain anonymous. Pens would be nominated for submission and if they passed a basic few tests for quailification. A hidden results poll could be posted by the Moderator of the new forum and the members could vote. You might not need to have anything more than a single "yes its worthy" choice and if it doent get enough votes (say 150) in a week it fails. You would not have to vote against it if you didnt like it just not vote.

 

[mredburn]

The guild entry requirements are a little stricter than just wow factor.

 

[micharms]

We are not ready for something like this.

Or maybe we do not need something like this!

Michael

 

[SerenityWoodWorks]

This would wind up being a popularity contest. Lets keep this forum as a learning and sharing forum..... Just my 2 cents worth..

It doesnt have to, with the right control with blind entries popularity would be taken out. And I am big about keeping it from a popularity contest.

This forum is about learning and sharing but its also about who can make a better product than another, Shown every year during the Bash Contests. This forum has just about everything you could ask for...except a hall of fame

 

[jttheclockman]

This would wind up being a popularity contest. Lets keep this forum as a learning and sharing forum..... Just my 2 cents worth..

This would wind up being a popularity contest. Lets keep this forum as a learning and sharing forum..... Just my 2 cents worth..

I Agree with that!

I just do not get this closed minded thinking. How would that make it a popularity contest. Don't we all want the cream of the crop to rise above us all. To show us the way to bigger and better things. New innovative ideas. Pens in the Hall of Fame would be innovations. Ones that you have not seen before. Maybe the first knot made, the first herringbone, the first segmented. Again the Wow factor. The pen on the front page right now is a WOW factor pen and worth consideration in a Hall of Fame. Who here can possibly disagree with that. So what they used a method that is beyond most of us. It does make us stop and think, boy I sure wish I can do that. As opposed to a pen you see in the SOYP forum that is a basic slimline. I am sure you do not say to yourself boy wish I can do that. Maybe if you are totally newbie and those people I am not talking about. I am talking to you vetern penturners. Yet we have recently seen some very first pen turners turn out some amazing work.

I am not trying to insult anyone so please do not take it as such but how else do we have this conversation.

It is a learning forum. But what the heck does anyone learn from looking at someones slimline pen with a wood blank or acrylic on it. Or any pen for that matter. Let me buy a piece of wood and turn a pen. Sometime in your penturning career I hope you step up past this and try something new. Like I said it is not for everyone and there are those that feel that is as far as they can go. Maybe yes and then maybe no. In life you always have the leaders and the followers. Well I am not a follower and this way of thinking will get you nowhere. You do not stop learning when a person's pen is entered in a Hall of Fame.

Popularity contest you say. Then all Bash contests are just that and no true winner comes out of any of them. Pretty closed minded thinking if you ask me. People running the Guild I am sure are not thinking popularity.

Like I said maybe I am reaching a bit but I thought we were beyond this jelousy thing here and wanted to add some exciting to the site. I think I have voiced my thoughts on this enough. Just keep one thing in mind WOW factor.

 

[dbledsoe]

I guess it depends on whether you want a "pen" hall of fame or a "penturner" hall of fame. Most halls of fame are devoted to recognizing people, not things. You never hear of a football play being inducted, but rather a football player, recognized for a career of achievement. I am all for a "penturner's" hall of fame, with members elected by a committee or the membership (I don't know how you choose a committee, and I am a little leery of membership voting). A hall of fame should recognize a turner's body of work, artistic ability, craftsmanship, etc, and not any individual pen.
JMHO
So, someone can volunteer to start a Penturner's Hall of Fame, and then they will choose a few worthy members, and then the hall of fame members can choose who gets in after that.
And you will never, ever get politics and popularity out of it any more than the baseball, football or WWF can.
Should I start it? maybe not.

 

[Chasper]

Everyone has an opinion, here is mine.
I have no interest in a hall of fame, I would not submit pens for consideration, I would not take the time to look at the pens that were submitted and accepted.

 

[jttheclockman]

Everyone has an opinion, here is mine.
I have no interest in a hall of fame, I would not submit pens for consideration, I would not take the time to look at the pens that were submitted and accepted.

Yes everyone is entitled to an opinion and yours is respected. May I ask what drives you to visit this site??? Just curious.

 

[jttheclockman]

I guess it depends on whether you want a "pen" hall of fame or a "penturner" hall of fame. Most halls of fame are devoted to recognizing people, not things. You never hear of a football play being inducted, but rather a football player, recognized for a career of achievement. I am all for a "penturner's" hall of fame, with members elected by a committee or the membership (I don't know how you choose a committee, and I am a little leery of membership voting). A hall of fame should recognize a turner's body of work, artistic ability, craftsmanship, etc, and not any individual pen.
JMHO
So, someone can volunteer to start a Penturner's Hall of Fame, and then they will choose a few worthy members, and then the hall of fame members can choose who gets in after that.
And you will never, ever get politics and popularity out of it any more than the baseball, football or WWF can.
Should I start it? maybe not.

HUMMMMMM:hypnotized: (didn't have a thinking smiley)

This I think would be more like the Penturner's Guild.

 

[Dale Lynch]

Well I made it through the pages,eyes a bit blurry by the end.Soo many pens to look through but here's what I came up with.

 

[BSea]

Well I made it through the pages,eyes a bit blurry by the end.Soo many pens to look through but here's what I came up with.

WAIT!?!?!?!?! NONE OF MY PENS MADE IT?!?!?!?!?

JK:biggrin::biggrin:

Personally, I have no problem with a "HALL OF FAME". I do think it will be somewhat of a popularity contest, and yes some politics might come into play. Welcome to the real world NEO! For example, I think most people will vote for a friend's pen over another as long as the pens were close. Especially if the judges were unknown to the general population here. It's just human nature.

I'll definitely look at the pens. I don't see how this will change the sharing of ideas & techniques. To me it will just be another forum to look at. I don't think it will change anything I do. One think I'd like to see is a monthly "Best of the Best". Mainly because sometimes I miss a really cool pen.

Personally, I try to get better with each pen. My favorite activity here is the PITH pens. I try to send out something that is a little unique for me, and hopefully will impress my partner a little too.

So, long story short. I would be ok with a "Hall of Fame'. I'd look at the pens, and I'd vote in a poll if there was one. I wouldn't care to be a judge, and I probably wouldn't send in a pen to be judged.

 

[Justturnin]

I would say it could be like the like button but it could be an anonymous nominate button where there is no counter or anything No one should be able to see what is happening that way there is not swaying of the panels. Once a pen reaches a specified Nominate selections to views it could be brought up as a poll, again anonymous w/ no "posts" allowed. Just the pen pics and a yes or no poll. At polls closing if the yeas outweigh the nae's than it is in.

 

[jttheclockman]

Dale

Thanks for taking the time to take me up on the challenge. You did a fine job. The selections you made are exactly what it would take to make it to the polling. Each pen is unique. Each pen has characteristics about it that make it stand out and I am sure when they were presented to the membership there was that WOW factor when viewing and I am sure there were significant responses or like buttons pushed.

Pens of this type to me push the envelope of pen making. They are inspirational pens that give us mere average penmakers something to strive for. They instill ideas or at least to me they do. They make you ask the question, how was that done??? They are pens that would be eye candy for any front page of any web site. They are pens that exude talent. These are pens that you do not go to your favorite vendor and buy the blank and put on a kit and say look what I made. These are pens that sure would get considered in any Hall of Fame of pens.

I am sure there probably are others but my point was, after looking at the hundreds of pens that get shown, there are only a limited number that have that WOW factor. Say what you want I am sure when questions were asked about these pens they were answered and knowledge was shared. That will always continue but has nothing to do with having a Hall of Fame.

Thanks again for all that took part in this topic. Maybe someday on some level something like this will evolve. Hope to read more of your thoughts.

PS: someone brought up the like button. This may have merit. Maybe a button that says Hall on it can be available. As you see a pen during the year that stands heads above others you may want to hit the Hall button. At the end of the year the top vote getters get a second look and make it to the second round of acceptance. Just thinking out loud.