CNC wood carvings

[robutacion]

Hi peoples,

I wonder how many of you use CNC machines and if ever used the A axis and worked with wood and used to the Mach3 software...??

I'm using a Chinese one with 4 axis, USB and 1,500W spindle, thanks goodness that Chinese keep making stuff cheap that allow many of us have a go at things that otherwise would be impossible, they are no longer that expensive.

I'm also looking for possible models/designs Gcodes that I could use to make some pretty stuff. I'm using Vector Art software to work the Gcodes most are from V3M. files, I purchased a hand full of small designs, most of animals and other small stuff, willing to share my files with someone that has some I could use...!

Please, let me know...!

Cheers
George

 

[mredburn]

I let my son cut twisted wood pen blanks on one a few years back. I have made several things in wood using the 4th axis, Mach 3 runs the controller that runs the machine. 4th axis software can be expensive. There was another thread not too long ago that had some suggestions for the software that was somewhat affordable.

 

[BRobbins629]

Do it all the time. If you have code for xy, it is fairly easy to convert to a rotary a axis. Either with CNC wrapper or in a spreadsheet with some simple formulas. Be careful, it's addicting

 

[robutacion]

I let my son cut twisted wood pen blanks on one a few years back. I have made several things in wood using the 4th axis, Mach 3 runs the controller that runs the machine. 4th axis software can be expensive. There was another thread not too long ago that had some suggestions for the software that was somewhat affordable.

Thanks for your reply...!

Do you remember the title of that thread..???

So far, it has been easy to use some of the Gcode files I bought with some animals etc., they only use the 3 main axis (x,y & z) however, one of the ideas I want to find a way to carve/mill in wood, are some spirals, maybe 3 or 4 that go straight through as twisted rod, all in a blank about 3"1/2 long x 2"1/2 wide and about 1"3/4 thick, that is where the A axis will be crucial.

There will be a need to create the design first and then create the Gcode for it and that is where I'm stuck, firstly I don't know how to create of I have in mind on the software and secondly, I don;y have the software to create it with and I know, it can be ridiculously expensive...!

Cheers
George

 

[robutacion]

Do it all the time. If you have code for xy, it is fairly easy to convert to a rotary a axis. Either with CNC wrapper or in a spreadsheet with some simple formulas. Be careful, it's addicting

G'day Bruce,

Hahahah, the addiction is not what worries me, the lack of knowledge about design creation and Gcode conversion is what I'm stuck with.

So far, all the designs/models I purchased, are only made for the use of the 3 main axis, I'm yet to get a design/Gcode that has A axis work and that may be something you could help me with.

Do you have anything with the A axis use on it...???

I'm also intrigued about those spreadsheet formulas and how its all done, I have no idea.

What type of images do you normally carve on your mill, using wood...???

Cheers
George

 

[mredburn]

George I believe that Bruce mentioned the two ways I was thinking of. I use RHino3D and Rhino Cam. Rhino Cam is not cheap. I rarely use it anymore as it is. I have gone to 3d printing most of my custom parts now. Dolphin Cad Cam pro is supposed to do 4th axis and is relatively cheap. $1000. Thats a lot of motivation to work it out with Bruce's methods.

 

[BRobbins629]

George - Here are 4 ways I use my CNC for pens and other round objects.

This first is to use good old math to generate equations for patterns. In each of these cases I carve out the pattern about .050" and fill with either epoxy polymer clay or sometimes PR.

The second is again to use some math, only this time I am interested in a 3D carving.

Number 3 requires some commercial software where I import a file and it creates the code to carve out the object. I usually fill with resin or clay as above.

Lastly, with commercial software I can carve complex 3D images. In this case, I started with a yellow cylinder, cast blue around it, turned round and carved away all but what I wanted left.

Note that all of these were originally XY codes. I sized them so the Y would be equal to the circumference of the workpiece. To convert the Y to A, I use a formula of A=Y/circumference*360. There are also commercial programs such as CNC wrapper that will also do this, however I've grown to like my system.

Type 1 and 2 examples require no special software. I usually use a spreadsheet to generate, copy the code into a txt file which can be read directly by Mach3. Software to create examples like type 3 can be had for a few hundred dollars or maybe even some freeware is out there. I used DeskCNC. The last technique does require high dollar software. If I were to purchase today, I would get Vetrix. Most of the software is available for 30 day trials. Most of the folks I know who use CNC like one type that suits them. Its best to see what fits your needs by experimenting.

 

[ohiococonut]

George,
As Bruce said "it can be addictive" and expensive, I know. I started out making pens and somehow got into cnc carving which is why I rarely post here anymore. I still read the forum regularly to see what going on though . The talent here has grown tremendously over the years.

Long story short, I now have two machines. I recently purchased a 4th axis for the machine I built that I just haven't had the time to hook up yet. My modeling software is Aspire by Vectric and I use Mach 3 for my controlling software. Aspire is an amazing software program that will literally allow you to carve anything but you'd have to look for yourself. www.vectric.com

There's also a forum that I frequent daily to learn new techniques and share info.
Vectric Forum • Index page

You can carve 2D, 3D, lithopanes, etc...Unless you know for a fact that you only want to engrave items on a 4th axis it would do you good to look around at various software packages. Aspire will allow you to manipulate any image and wrap it around the 4th axis. You can even create 3D images from 2D but, keep in mind there is a steep learning curve if you choose to do so. I admit I am bias with the software I use but this is still only a hobby for me and I rarely sell anything I create. With software such as this you are only limited by your imagination and the possibilities are limitless :biggrin:
Hopefully this winter I have my 4th axis hooked up and running so I can turn spindles, busts, walking sticks, pen blanks, etc.
Below are just a few of the things I've carved.

 

[robutacion]

George - Here are 4 ways I use my CNC for pens and other round objects.

This first is to use good old math to generate equations for patterns. In each of these cases I carve out the pattern about .050" and fill with either epoxy polymer clay or sometimes PR.

The second is again to use some math, only this time I am interested in a 3D carving.

Number 3 requires some commercial software where I import a file and it creates the code to carve out the object. I usually fill with resin or clay as above.

Lastly, with commercial software I can carve complex 3D images. In this case, I started with a yellow cylinder, cast blue around it, turned round and carved away all but what I wanted left.

Note that all of these were originally XY codes. I sized them so the Y would be equal to the circumference of the workpiece. To convert the Y to A, I use a formula of A=Y/circumference*360. There are also commercial programs such as CNC wrapper that will also do this, however I've grown to like my system.

Type 1 and 2 examples require no special software. I usually use a spreadsheet to generate, copy the code into a txt file which can be read directly by Mach3. Software to create examples like type 3 can be had for a few hundred dollars or maybe even some freeware is out there. I used DeskCNC. The last technique does require high dollar software. If I were to purchase today, I would get Vetrix. Most of the software is available for 30 day trials. Most of the folks I know who use CNC like one type that suits them. Its best to see what fits your needs by experimenting.

Hi Bruce,

I wish you were closer mate, I would invite you to come over and show me a few things...!

I have been talking with a rep of the Vectric software, as I bough some of their designs however, it seems that the person I have been communication with me is unsure of which software would be the most appropriate for me and if the less expensive of the 2 top softwares they have Aspire being the most complex and expensive, the VCarve pro 8 is not yet proven to do what I need.

There are many things that I would like to try making but, the one that at the moment has the priority is the ability to wrap some pics/images I like into a rectangular piece of wood. The design needs to be milled/carved on 3 faces, one of the narrow faces being the centre of the design.

The working stock is about 100 x 65 x 45mm, the depth of cut can be variable and anything about 1/2" is fine, the cuts would be deeper at the square corners and the cuts themselves would follow a curve and 2 flat sizes as the blanks will be rounded on their final shape after the buyer gets the blanks.

The milled grooves will be filled with resin so, the internal shape and depth is not that crucial as the block when drilled and shaped to correct size, can have some resin coming through some of the shallow shaping done inside the blanks.

I have attached the type of work I would like to do, start with the rectangular stock and an image centered on that one narrow face expanding to each left and right sides like wings, the pic I'm attaching have one of the designs I would like milled into the blank, imagine the spider cut into the wood 1/2" deep and then filled with resin, the blanks are supplied rectangular and then shaped by the buyer.

The question is, I believe the A axis is required to rotate the stock as the spindle (Z axis) works up and down, what software do I need to do this and how is it done...???

Cheers
George

 

[robutacion]

George,
As Bruce said "it can be addictive" and expensive, I know. I started out making pens and somehow got into cnc carving which is why I rarely post here anymore. I still read the forum regularly to see what going on though . The talent here has grown tremendously over the years.

Long story short, I now have two machines. I recently purchased a 4th axis for the machine I built that I just haven't had the time to hook up yet. My modeling software is Aspire by Vectric and I use Mach 3 for my controlling software. Aspire is an amazing software program that will literally allow you to carve anything but you'd have to look for yourself. www.vectric.com

There's also a forum that I frequent daily to learn new techniques and share info.
Vectric Forum • Index page

You can carve 2D, 3D, lithopanes, etc...Unless you know for a fact that you only want to engrave items on a 4th axis it would do you good to look around at various software packages. Aspire will allow you to manipulate any image and wrap it around the 4th axis. You can even create 3D images from 2D but, keep in mind there is a steep learning curve if you choose to do so. I admit I am bias with the software I use but this is still only a hobby for me and I rarely sell anything I create. With software such as this you are only limited by your imagination and the possibilities are limitless :biggrin:
Hopefully this winter I have my 4th axis hooked up and running so I can turn spindles, busts, walking sticks, pen blanks, etc.
Below are just a few of the things I've carved.

Yikes, that Aspire is very expensive software and I only hope what I want to do can be done with less expensive software.

That dogs face is really a great 3D effect and, from what I can see, it seems that was done on 5 axis machine as I can see (or looks like it in the pic) that around the dogs nose and other areas, the cuts are going in an under shape, and as far as I know, no 4 axis CNC can do that, either the head or the base plate has to swing to its side position to get inside curves done, am I right...?

Can you help with my requirements issues...?

Any help will be most appreciated and properly but modestly, compensated...!:wink::biggrin:

Cheers
George

 

[BRobbins629]

George - much easier to do this from round stock and A axis. Going a 1/2 inch deep may be an issue as it's difficult to find cutting bits that long in the size you need to cut the detail. If you can first turn the blank close to final diameter, then you don't need to go too deep. I do this type of thing all the time and only go about .050 to .070" deep. As I said before, send me the drawing and what bit you plan to use and I can send you the code.

 

[robutacion]

George - much easier to do this from round stock and A axis. Going a 1/2 inch deep may be an issue as it's difficult to find cutting bits that long in the size you need to cut the detail. If you can first turn the blank close to final diameter, then you don't need to go too deep. I do this type of thing all the time and only go about .050 to .070" deep. As I said before, send me the drawing and what bit you plan to use and I can send you the code.

Hi Bruce,

Yeah well...! the thing is, the final shape of the blank is one of many possible however, some only round the edges and other created a hand grip type design.

The blanks alone, have to be provided rectangular to allow the required shapes to be made from the "mod" maker, these blanks are used by the e-cig modders and each one has his own design.

The milling of images in blanks will only be made on blanks that are stabilized wood and not very "busy" the enhance will be the cast image instead of the wood itself, if you know what I mean...!

I'm attaching a couple of blanks of mine that were worked by some of these people, you will understand what I can't round anything.

Have a look..!

Cheers
George

 

[ohiococonut]

George,
The dog (Labrador) face was cut only using a 3 axis machine. It was carved in a dish but because the picture is slightly off center it gives you the illusion it's undercut.

I've read your post several times and after seeing the picture of the shape you want to maintain my first thought is it is not possible with a 3 axis machine even with a rotary attachment. I could be wrong but I've never seen done what you're trying to accomplish.
Generally you can "wrap" an image around a cylinder but around a rectangle?? If it were round you would just need to calculate the diameter of the cylinder and use that for either your x or y axis depending on your machine set up and carve away.
As it is you can carve that design on any of the flat surfaces or round out your material and wrap it. And as Bruce mentioned it would be difficult to find bits small enough to carve the detail you want that deep. I don't know right off but one of my sources may carry a 1/16" bit long enough or you may have to resort to using a Dremel bit with an adapter. The smallest bit I have is a 1/32" round nose but it is also a tapered bit.

Sorry I couldn't be of any more help but I don't believe even Aspire has the capabilities to wrap around a square or rectangle. I'll ask on the cnc forum and see if anyone knows for sure.

 

[Zulu]

I do not have a CNC machine but I am very interested in the subject.
I also think that this particular shape of the blank, being a rectangle, is not possible to carve on a rotary axis, as the final carving it would not appear correctly. The longer sides (left and right) would not correspond to the shorter (upper) side.
However, if you cut the vector into 3 vertical slices, you could do it with a 3 axis machining; machining each side separately. I've made some photos to illustrate what I mean but cannot test it as I do not have a CNC.

1 and 2 are of the vector, and the rest of the photos are a visual representation of the text.

 

[ohiococonut]

Zulu,
Unfortunately that won't work. Even if the separation between the side were made greater at some point they are going to intersect and you'll end up with a distorted image. I'm running short on time but I can post the image later if George is interesting in seeing what I'm talking about.

 

[workinforwood]

I use 2 4 axis machines to cut blanks on all the time...kinda goes without saying I suppose. I never heard of buying codes already made. It sounds logical but then if you did that your stuck using the stock size it was programmed for and you need to know which bit to use. I use virtual mill to program my designs and it wasn't cheap, I probably have $2800 in the software.
I would think to do a round box you would want to use 5 axis software. You could still mount it just like 4 axis but you would need the y axis to be moving too. It would get very complicated and when wrapping the image you will run into new problems. With round blanks I deal with and try to pre plan for distortion. It's hard to explain, but I try. You have a rod mounted and a cutter directly on top. You plung down, now the bit technically does not move, the rod turns. If you turn the rod, let's say 90 degrees. Your bit is perfectly flat in the cut but at the start and stop point there's an angle. If you could disect it, it looks like a pie slice. The inside of the cut is smaller than the outside of the cut. But in the other direction they are identical lengths. Not sure it's making sense how I am describing it. If I stood a rod on end, cut a letter T in it and it's 1/2" deep 1/2 wide, 1/2" long, after spinning most of it away the T would still be 1/2" long but now only 1/4" wide. So when I wrap designs on a rod I try to stretch them to be fatter than I desire so they will lose weight as they are spun.
In a square though you face an extra challenge. Not only is there distortion to deal with but as you cut the sides your cutting into the depth of the top. The only thing you could do with a square is keep your cuts as shallow as possible like Bruce does. This would require your stock to be nearly finished size to begin with. But on the flip side, by cutting shallow you can add far more detail.

 

[ohiococonut]

Jeff,
I understand what you're saying about wrapping and unwrapping images on round stock. I can use my 3 axis machine easy enough to turn 3d images on round stock. When I built my machine I installed dual ball screw drives on my Y axis so it's driven by Y and A (slave). Essentially I use a different screen set in Mach3 and plug my rotary attachment into my A (slave) axis so I can wrap and unwrap images.

I agree with you about buying G Codes. You would need to purchase the design with a file extension you're capable of opening or importing so you can manipulate the image. Unless you can read and understand G-code, it'll be like looking at the screen from the movie The Matrix. :biggrin:

Anyway.....here's a quick rendering of what would happen if you try splitting the image and cut on 3 sides. I'm only showing the top so you can see there is no way possible to carve the sides because of the depth. The shape is close to what George is after. What he wants simply can't be done with his machine.

 

[robutacion]

Sorry folks, I keep not getting notified when someone posts in here, I subscribed to this thread but, for whatever the reason, it doesn't alert me of the posts so, I may have to try checking more regularly, with the limited time I have been having lately to log on IAP, it will gets better, one day...!

Ok so, something that I though easy to do, doesn't seem to be so, I can hear you all, and the explanations given but, because I don't have enough knowledge on the issue, I keep thinking that with the capabilities of CNC's that, something that seems so simple to me, is beyond the operational capabilities of the type CNC I have and that really, makes me mad...!

So, I'm far from giving up of this, I invested far too much (for me) to be able to accomplish this type blanks so, I hope that someone comes up with a better solution or the one, I envisage from day one, which may not mean much, in the end...!

I'm pleased with the number of you guys that are trying to help me out, I did not know that, IAP had so many CNC users, now I know...!

I need to put more time into this project of mine but at the moment, my time is required elsewhere so, I will keep looking for someone with a solution or, I will have to re-think my project.

In fact, I have been thinking in carve one of these blanks manually (Dremel tool), carve and then fill it with resin, re-shape with a round face on the narrow side and see, the effects, I can do that, maybe not in fine detail but, it will give me a good starting point and also something to show what I had in mind, that should also help, huh...??:biggrin:

Cheers
George