Aluminum and Brass

[Terredax]

Since I'm not a metallurgist, I'm hoping someone either is or can direct me to the information. I've been unsuccessful in finding anything definitive.

With Aluminum being a suspected contributor to Alzheimer's, and other health issues, Is it safe to have Aluminum and Brass in constant contact with the skin, without any protective coating i.e., anodizing or powder coat?

TIA for any help.

 

[Curly]

John if aluminium was that bad every aircraft mechanic would have it when they passed. If it is a factor at all it would be from food and water sources. Go into your kitchen and see how many pots and pans you have made of aluminium and then look in a restaurant kitchen. If they won't let you in :roll eyes: check out the sellers of professional kitchen supplies. They use a lot. I wouldn't worry about it unless you are playing with exotic alloys like aluminium lithium or copper beryllium which is known to be toxic while being machined.

 

[Terredax]

Thanks Pete.
But aren't most pans coated with enamel or Teflon? I don't recall seeing raw Aluminum used for cooking. I've also read that Aluminum can turn the skin black from a reaction with body chemistry.
If it's possible, I would like to have supportive evidence to avoid liability issues. Having people sign a waiver, could prove counterproductive.

 

[bmachin]

Hi John,

Uncoated aluminum pans are by no means uncommon, although people tend to stay away from them for cooking acidic foods.

In general, aluminum is a highly reactive metal which will react immediately with oxygen in the air to form aluminum oxide which is a very stable, hard, non-reactive compound which protects the surface of the metal from its surroundings and vise-versa.

Also see here:

https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/phs/phs.asp?id=1076&tid=34

Bill

 

[jttheclockman]

Is copper on that list too. I have worked with aluminum and copper wire for 43 years. Built many control boards that used brass screws. Drilled my share of stainless. Have to say that is the first time I ever heard of this.

 

[chartle]

from The Alzheimer's Association and everyone else

Myth 4: Drinking out of aluminum cans or cooking in aluminum pots and pans can lead to Alzheimer's disease.
Reality: During the 1960s and 1970s, aluminum emerged as a possible suspect in Alzheimer's. This suspicion led to concern about exposure to aluminum through everyday sources such as pots and pans, beverage cans, antacids and antiperspirants. Since then, studies have failed to confirm any role for aluminum in causing Alzheimer's. Experts today focus on other areas of research, and few believe that everyday sources of aluminum pose any threat.

 

[chartle]

I think the issue with brass and any lead contamination.

 

[chartle]

In general, aluminum is a highly reactive metal which will react immediately with oxygen in the air to form aluminum oxide which is a very stable, hard, non-reactive compound which protects the surface of the metal from its surroundings and vise-versa.

I had heard that handling raw Al may be an issue but it may have been an part of the Alzheimer's scare but also heard that it creates a coating of Al oxide almost immediately.

 

[Curly]

Pure Aluminium reacts with oxygen, as said earlier, to form aluminium oxide coating that protects the metal from corrosion. Alloys of aluminium do not because the copper and zinc etc., corrode allowing the process to continue into the metal. That is why there are chemical (Alodine) and electrical (Anodizing) processes that artificially convert the surface of the alloy to do the same thing as happens naturally with pure aluminium. Alodine being more of a repair or paint preperation process and Anodizing being the more durable process that can stand alone.

Some alloys of aluminium, 6061 among them, form a corrosion layer that will blacken your hands or rub off on wood. Others like 2024 don't as readily. The alloys need to be Anodized if you want to protect them but they will not remain shiny. They can be coloured as you see with many tools or left clear. Some alloys like 7075 will show grain or a mottled look if clear. Usually not desired for show but normal on parts that are painted.

Each type of alloy was developed to have certain properties and as time went of more have been developed fill the needs of industry and aviation. Some like 1100 series are almost pure aluminium are soft, corrosion resistant, weldable, but relatively weak. Alloys in the 7000 series are strong, some approaching that of mild steel, but are not weldable normally and corrode quickly unless protected.

If you are going to play with aluminum for pen parts and can find it, you will like 2024 as it cuts cleaner than 6061 that is kind of gummy in comparison. 7075 also machines nicely but is harder than either of the other two. Any alloy you want to play with should be pre-hardened to T4xxx, T6xxx, etc., and you should anodize them. Brad Godard can help you get into it. At the MAPG some years back there was a demonstration by a serviceman who's name escapes me and Bruce Robbins. A PM to Bruce will put you on the path to chemical enlightenment too.

 

[Rockytime]

I've been turning brass and ,tick, tick, aluminum, tick, for years without, tick, tick, any tick problems.

 

[CREID]

I've been turning brass and ,tick, tick, aluminum, tick, for years without, tick, tick, any tick problems.

Is that why they call you Rocky?:biggrin:

 

[TellicoTurning]

It's funny how some of these myths get started... we've been cooking in aluminum pots and pans for almost a century and now suddenly they're bad for you.... did you know that ultra pure water, H2O, with no pollutants in it is unstable and actually unsafe to drink?

When I was in California in the mid/late '70's I worked for a traffic company that handled a company that made filters to crate the ultra pure water used in washing computer chips... one of the engineers said a glass of ultra pure water was harmful and unstable and would pull impurities out of the air to stabilize... if you drank it, it would pull what it needed to stabilize from your body, which could be harmful.
Solution, drink beer. :biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Terredax]

I appreciate the information that has been provided.
My concern isn't with the machining, I've turned and milled Aluminum, but I was considering jewelry type items that would be in constant contact with the skin.
I figured I would start with the non-ferrous metals with them being softer, and then maybe move to something like stainless later on. I've read some and watched videos on machining stainless, and I don't feel that I'm close to that level yet.

 

[chartle]

I appreciate the information that has been provided.
My concern isn't with the machining, I've turned and milled Aluminum, but I was considering jewelry type items that would be in constant contact with the skin.
I figured I would start with the non-ferrous metals with them being softer, and then maybe move to something like stainless later on. I've read some and watched videos on machining stainless, and I don't feel that I'm close to that level yet.

Now you are getting into allergies and a whole other issue. You may need to stick with hypo allergenic metals.

 

[Terredax]

Now you are getting into allergies and a whole other issue. You may need to stick with hypo allergenic metals.

That leads back to the harder to machine metals and the price on most of the hypo-allergenic metals, with sterling silver being the most common and best value for the money, is out of my meager spending range.

It seems that all of my ideas end up being over my budget or it requires specialized equipment. I think I should stick to my Corian trinkets and be satisfied.