Segmenting with aluminum and wood

[kronewi]

Thank you Mike. I appreciate the tutorial!

Kevin

 

[kronewi]

John T,

That is one scary blank. Best of luck with it.

And yes, some of us read your posts...even if it takes me a while to get to it!

Have a great day!

Kevin

 

[Hendu3270]

That blank looks awesome John. Definitely be a blank for super light cuts, that's for sure.

 

[mikespenturningz]

Don't forget that the scallops are just a variation of these cuts. There is another tutorial that explains how to make scallops in the library. I didn't write that one but when I saw it I knew exactly what to do.

 

[kronewi]

Do you know the name of the tutorial? I just looked through the Library, and searched it. Nothing comes back from searching for "scallop" or "scallops".

Kevin

 

[mikespenturningz]

I cannot remember the tutorial name I think I just looked up segmenting and sifted through. Basically all you do is make the 45 degree cuts glue it up then flip the blank 90 degrees and make the same cuts again and glue it up.

 

[jttheclockman]

Scallops away. http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/segmented-scalloped-burled-ivory-89687/

I will eventualy figure out what I want to do with that blank. I may want to enter it in a contest if it comes out well.

 

[Hendu3270]

Scallops away. http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/segmented-scalloped-burled-ivory-89687/

I will eventualy figure out what I want to do with that blank. I may want to enter it in a contest if it comes out well.

Yep, you may want to hold out for next years Birthday Bash. Although, now that we have all seen the blank, you'll have to put up with us bugging you to show us the pen before then :biggrin:

 

[mikespenturningz]

Yup that is the one John T. BTW guys John is the one that turned me onto some of these techniques and I just ran from there. This is the same post that John pointed me to. If I have any questions that I cannot answer he will be able to answer them. It is best to ask them here anyway as others probably have the same question. John very often sees them and answers them sooner or another reader may have an answer and get you help. This is how we all learn. I know that in the past people have asked questions in my posts and another person answered and I learned yet another way to do something and maybe a better way at that.

I cannot imagine what next years Bash is going to be like. With all of you guys making segmented pens it should be a real hard time judging them.

 

[Haynie]

Cool. Thanks

 

[kronewi]

Thank you John & Mike.

I now know why the tutorial did not show up in the Library!

Kevin

 

[teamtexas]

I really like the way these have turned out. I just found the post and read through all 10 pages. I'm going to have to give this a try!

Dan

 

[mikespenturningz]

Ok John T. has asked me to explain more about what I am doing and how I have extended my methods so this is the place to do it. I will answer questions here and only here that way all of the information stays here. All of the cuts that are needed to do scalloping using my method are already in this thread but I have added a twist to it. Can you figure out what that twist is? I know that some of you have already figured it out. I will tell you that using my method you will get a break in the lower scallop and this cannot be avoided. You will loose the width of the kerf.

Phil (firewhatfire) figured this some time ago and actually helped me to see what was going on. So again I am going to ask you..

Do you know what sort of twist would give you the second scallop? Twist should be used literally here!

 

[firewhatfire]

I clean with acetone and use flashing from lowes or Home Depot for aluminum. I found a 100 pack of 5x7 sheets for $10

Excellent pen by the way

 

[mikespenturningz]

I have been cutting off a roll and got my flashing at home depot. I think the 5x7 sheet would be much easier and will go that route next time.

Hi Phil
I have been asked to show how I get my scallops so I am going to try to use this thread to spur people along. I know you figured it out quite some time ago. I am not sure if I want to give a direct answer or let folks try to figure it out. I will answer questions but would like to see some experimentation then answer questions if there are any? What do you think?

 

[nx95240]

thank for sharing

 

[firewhatfire]

Give them enough to make em curious. A tutorial is already listed somewhere on this thread. It's well worth reading several times(I did ). Tim Wise is the originator of that article.

It is a true aha moment when it's figured out.

 

[NittanyLion]

Ok John T. has asked me to explain more about what I am doing and how I have extended my methods so this is the place to do it. I will answer questions here and only here that way all of the information stays here. All of the cuts that are needed to do scalloping using my method are already in this thread but I have added a twist to it. Can you figure out what that twist is? I know that some of you have already figured it out. I will tell you that using my method you will get a break in the lower scallop and this cannot be avoided. You will loose the width of the kerf.

Phil (firewhatfire) figured this some time ago and actually helped me to see what was going on. So again I am going to ask you..

Do you know what sort of twist would give you the second scallop? Twist should be used literally here!

To answer John T's question in the other post, I think I figured this out a while back looking at one of your blanks. To make your scallops, you use the method described in this thread, then "twist", or turn the blank one time and do it again. It's most evident in your most recent pen....from it, I can see you are not cutting true scallops, but 45's (or 70 degrees in the case of the last pen). As a small piece of wood remains at the bend. Am I correct?

 

[darcisowers]

that is BEAUTIFUL. great work!

 

[jttheclockman]

Mike

I see you chose to do this in this thread. I was hoping you placed in a different seperate thread. I will tell you that both you and firewhatfire are not doing the same cuts. You both are using a bandsaw but you are not doing the same glueups. Both methods look good. Maybe he too would like to include his method.

As far as my method goes, I use the same method as in the link that I provided. I have a blank in somewhat workable stage that I need to finish and I will post it with some photos. I just do not have the time right now.

 

[Johnny westbrook]

Thanks for sharing Great pen

 

[mikespenturningz]

So Steve is absolutely right all you need to do to get the scallops my way is to turn the blank 90 degrees and make exactly the same cut again, add aluminum and reglue and you are done. When you make this second cut you actually cut away some of the old scallop. When you glue the piece back on you glue it minus the kerf of the saw. This is why you see the break. You can tell if you have done a good job by where the break occurs. It takes time to figure that out. There are other things to look for also but this should get you all started. Post your pictures here in this thread if you like and lets see how you are doing at it.

 

[jyreene]

Still like how those turn out. Great tutorial!

 

[teamtexas]

Post your pictures here in this thread if you like and lets see how you are doing at it.

I tried a little metal/plastic segmenting and it almost worked!

First thing I ran into was a blow out on the end. That was small so I cut it off and added the small ring with the straight band on the end.

Everything was looking good, until I tried to use a dull tool to trim the other end :at-wits-end:

Ouch! I couldn't even find all the pieces. But with the ring intact I decided to add some new scallop pieces.


I have some Brazillian Cherry, Walnut and Pecan in this. The 1st two multi wood blocks exploded when I tried to drill them on the drill press. I glued this one to the end of a drilled piece and drilled it on the lathe.

Dan

 

[mikespenturningz]

Ouch that had to hurt. This happens with segmenting. I have had them blow up and not been able to save them too. This is why these pens are expensive! Failures happen and they are expensive pens to make because of the exposure to failures we have. Here is another pen from today..

 

[NittanyLion]

So Mike, what's your trick to such a precise bend on the aluminum. Your gap between the wood and aluminum is non existent. Do you bend then hammer? How about the 2 recent pens with 70 degree angle?

 

[Super Dave]

Mike, thanks for teaching you techniques. Your pens are beautiful, they are works of art. Time is precious, and thanks for giving so much of it to us. Every tip you give saves us hours of trial and error. I am working on some now, I only had one blow up. I will post when done. Thanks for the help and inspiration.

 

[mikespenturningz]

Actually there is somewhat of a trick to it. I sand with 80 grit and really scuff both sides in both directions. I think this may relax the aluminum a bit. Then I bend it right over the piece of wood that I am using it on. After it is bent I take it off and bend it further and get a nice sharp bend then readjust it to fit exactly the angle of the wood.

 

[mikespenturningz]

Another good reason to use the coarse sandpaper is the grooves that are created while sanding really increase the surface area that the glue has to adhere the aluminum to the wood. I am not sure how much it increases it but it makes sense to me that it does?

 

[ChrisN]

So Steve is absolutely right all you need to do to get the scallops my way is to turn the blank 90 degrees and make exactly the same cut again, add aluminum and reglue and you are done. When you make this second cut you actually cut away some of the old scallop. When you glue the piece back on you glue it minus the kerf of the saw. This is why you see the break. You can tell if you have done a good job by where the break occurs. It takes time to figure that out. There are other things to look for also but this should get you all started. Post your pictures here in this thread if you like and lets see how you are doing at it.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the break is caused by the thickness of the saw blade. If your saw blade was *exactly* the width of the aluminum, the break would be non-existent.

 

[mikespenturningz]

Yes the break is the thickness of the kerf of the blade, but the thickness of the aluminum has nothing to do with it. When you make the second cut you are cutting away part of the first scallop. Then gluing it back in minus the part you cut out because of the thickness of the blade. I know it is hard to see and visualize like I said in an earlier post it too firewhatfire to help me actually see it.

 

[ChrisN]

But the aluminum makes up for part of that loss, doesn't it?

 

[mikespenturningz]

It may fill back some of the loss but the first scallop has been cut and then glued back in. You can't get that part back it is gone to sawdust. There are so many things going on it is hard to see. I tried moving my cuts and everything to maybe split the difference but nothing I did made any difference at all. That part of the blank is just gone. It isn't a flaw it is just the process by which I make them. Yours will do exactly the same thing. You are so close to doing this it isn't funny. Your post of your new pen is really good. I love the contrast in woods that you chose. All you need to do is turn that blank 90 degrees and make the second cut and you will have scallops. Try it on a new piece and only do a single scallop, leave the blank long so you can trim it. Use that as the cap and you have it.

 

[ChrisN]

I guess there's nothing like trying it for myself! :biggrin:

 

[mikespenturningz]

ChrisN did you make a sled for your cuts? If you did post an image of it so we can see it.

 

[Frank Nemke sr]

Thanks for the pictures. I tried this on bandsaw. Three a temps On the 3rd one the drive belt came off again and I gave up for now. I have one question= the 7th picture doesn't seem to fit the sequence , is that another project?

 

[Davy J]

edited

 

[mikespenturningz]

Tiny passages would work as long as they were not on the edge of the pen so they look like a gap? You can segment any hardware you like.

 

[Davy J]

I LIKE IT and think I might have to do the same only with a 10m one barrel pen. so of course It'll be bigger. And how about if one drills tiny passages so the glue can pass thru the alum and into the wood? would have to be parallel and real close to center. if this makes sence. I see how I would do it.

 

[teamtexas]

New kinda of segment for me.

I built a workshop sketch pencil to be used at my place of work. I used a different segmenting style on this one. For the top section I cut Brazillian Cherry, Walnut and Pecan into 1/4" x 1/4" x 7" long pieces that I glued together to make up a cane style blank that was 1" x 1" x 7". I then cut that up into 1/4" long pieces and glued them up with a bit of a twist and some plastic and aluminum thrown in to make it unique.


All in all it worked well. I turned the blank round between centers and then chucked it up to bore the 11mm hole on the lathe. The last segment busted out as I was drilling. The good news is it was longer then I needed so I was able to cut it down after the brass tube was glued in. I coated the whole thing with some thin CA to help before I completed turning it down.

The bottom was the same wood, but I glued three pieces together to make the blank. I used Gorrilla Glue for this and one of the pieces was thrown at me when I 1st started to turn it round. I was able to save it by re-gluing with thick CA. I also drenched this blank with thin CA after the hole was drilled and the tube installed.

Dan