Casting Jungle fowl / Roster Pheasant feather casting

[oldtoolsniper]

I've found a lot of ways of doing this that do not work. This is my closest swing at success in doing a feather casting. I do some fly tying and I can say wrapping a tube is far more challenging then most flies I've tied.

This one is a fail as well but I'm close to running out of ways that don't work.


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[MDWine]

I haven't tied flys in many years, but I do remember JC feathers being very "dear". Is that still the case? From what I remember, that alone would drive up the price of that blank... but now I remember maybe the JC being pen-raised?

So, did you wind the thread around like a fly, to keep feathers in place?

Interesting blank, well done.

 

[oldtoolsniper]

The jungle (unprintable) are pen raised so they are readily available but still pretty steep price wise. The pheasants come from hunting here in Iowa and trips to South Dakota so they are probably more costly than the JC feathers in the end. Kind of like the $5000, $1.98 slimline pen kits I turn.

The feathers are all glued one at a time on the blank. The green thread on the end is actually green wire for making John Barr style flies. I couldn't figure out how to cover up a mistake I made on the end.

I'm now figuring out how to make a tube holder big enough for my vise. I want make them on the fly tying vise instead of the lathe. Tube flies are actually a thing now.

These sure have taught me a lot and tested my patience.


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[socdad]

Good looking blank, do you use fly head cement to glue the feathers to the blank?

 

[JohnU]

The JC feathers are always an eye catcher but do get costly. I used to get them on line from a guy in the UK for about $35 a pelt and now every where I look they are $85 - $150. That adds up, especially since there's no guarantee the blanks will turn out. Unfortunately nothings getting cheaper in price.

Its Looking Good so Keep with it. Its about finding what works for you and being consistent. Also,,, They never stop testing your patients. lol

 

[oldtoolsniper]

This one I brushed them on with epoxy.

I'm casting these with alumilite clear so finding a compatible adhesive that works is the first part or the problem.

Like wood some feathers are easy and some are not, some are oily and some are not.

Forming the feathers in one piece, curved on the tube is the next huge challenge.

Making them pleasing to the eye is in there too.

They have to survive casting in tact and then you have to turn them.

In each one I've done I've figured out what did not work in one or more of these areas.

This one was close but failed.

The adhesives were not compatible, it bubbled around the feathers, I had dirt in the pressure pot that ended up in the blank, and it looks like the dog chewed it up from de-lamination.

Not exactly the perfect pen that is usually displayed here, but that's the point, learn and challenge.

I still made it into a user pen just to remind me of how far I've come.

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[oldtoolsniper]

Good looking blank, do you use fly head cement to glue the feathers to the blank?

I make my own head cement, it's thinned down shoe goo. I have not tried that yet.


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[oldtoolsniper]

The JC feathers are always an eye catcher but do get costly. I used to get them on line from a guy in the UK for about $35 a pelt and now every where I look they are $85 - $150. That adds up, especially since there's no guarantee the blanks will turn out. Unfortunately nothings getting cheaper in price.

Its Looking Good so Keep with it. Its about finding what works for you and being consistent. Also,,, They never stop testing your patients. lol

Thanks for the encouragement!

I'm bound and determined to make this work. I've seen your work so I know it's possible.

As far as feathers and fly tying stuff I have piles of it. They are fun to do once you realize the fish don't really care.




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[socdad]

Feather blank

I find that fly head cement (not the water braised stuff) works great, but I use Silmar 41 polyester resin to cast ... Getting the feathers to lie flat can be tricky, I use a small doll rod as a 'rolling pin' and soak the back of the feather with the fly head cement. I have only used ringneck and silver pheasant feathers, jungle fowl feathers are out of my price range ...
You have a great start ... it took me a hundred or so before I had one I was happy with.
Good Luck
Jeff

 

[oldtoolsniper]

I find that fly head cement (not the water braised stuff) works great, but I use Silmar 41 polyester resin to cast ... Getting the feathers to lie flat can be tricky, I use a small doll rod as a 'rolling pin' and soak the back of the feather with the fly head cement. I have only used ringneck and silver pheasant feathers, jungle fowl feathers are out of my price range ...

You have a great start ... it took me a hundred or so before I had one I was happy with.

Good Luck

Jeff

I have to cast in the house next to the wood stove. I'm sure the smell of the regular stuff would force me to abandon this hobby until summer.

I have an idea on how to set the curve to the feather, I've been thinking about it all night.

I've made quite a few bentwood Shaker boxes so setting a curve to a feather should be in my grasp.

I'm going to attack one issue at a time until it is solved and them move to the next. It I can set the curve to the feather then I can use whatever adhesive I need to because I'm not battling the feathers.


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[Kenny Durrant]

I think I'm more in line with you as far as not happy with the outcome but just a little better results. I'm not bashing your work just hoping between the 2 of us we can move on to the next level. First off there are a few or more here that do a great job at casting feathers and some have tutorials available. I've never had any luck tying the feathers to the tubes and that might be the trick to cure my problem. I like the overall finished product but if there is a light color feather on top of a dark one it really shows through. Now that you know what I'm dealing with this is what I do and maybe it will give you a few more ideas. I paint the tube white to help bring out the color of the feathers. Then I trim all the down and leave just the colored part of the feather. Then I hold the feather by the quill with a pair of tweezers and lightly mist the back with spray adhesive. I place the feather on the tube and center the tube and feather face down on a paper towel and rock the tube back and forth to make the feather lay flat. I leave plenty of over hang on both ends of the tube then trim when I seal the feathers so I don't have to worry about wrapping or covering the ends. I use white Elmers glue to seal the feathers to the tube and cast with Epoxy Resin. Good Luck and let us know if you figure it out.

 

[oldtoolsniper]

I think I'm more in line with you as far as not happy with the outcome but just a little better results. I'm not bashing your work just hoping between the 2 of us we can move on to the next level. First off there are a few or more here that do a great job at casting feathers and some have tutorials available. I've never had any luck tying the feathers to the tubes and that might be the trick to cure my problem. I like the overall finished product but if there is a light color feather on top of a dark one it really shows through. Now that you know what I'm dealing with this is what I do and maybe it will give you a few more ideas. I paint the tube white to help bring out the color of the feathers. Then I trim all the down and leave just the colored part of the feather. Then I hold the feather by the quill with a pair of tweezers and lightly mist the back with spray adhesive. I place the feather on the tube and center the tube and feather face down on a paper towel and rock the tube back and forth to make the feather lay flat. I leave plenty of over hang on both ends of the tube then trim when I seal the feathers so I don't have to worry about wrapping or covering the ends. I use white Elmers glue to seal the feathers to the tube and cast with Epoxy Resin. Good Luck and let us know if you figure it out.

Kenny,
I certainly don't take your advise as bashing my work. Learning and experimenting means more failures than successes. In the end there are only a few ways that will work and the a bazillion that wont. Failures in multiple tries simply means I'm getting closer.

It's my belief that a forum such as this is a learning place. I can build an entire set of custom kitchen boxes with fancy doors without much thought. My first ones required a lot of thought and were terrible. Hand cut dovetails are fairly simple for me now, ten years ago not so much.

I've learned theses things by failing more than I succeeded.

I've learned most of what I know from someone else.

I'm sure we all have a box of failures under our bench.

I'm going to take your advise and give that a shot. I'm going to steam some feathers and try to set a curve in them so they fit the tube. Patience is also something I need to practice. Waiting for stuff to completely dry is a necessary evil. Im pretty sure it's caused a few of my failures.



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[Kenny Durrant]

Moisture is a big concern. I have rushed many a perfect tube and had it fail due to moisture. Alumilite and Epoxy Resins are more finicky to water than the P.R Resins. I think the steam might be a bigger pain than necessary. Give the spray glue a try and be sure to seal the feather before casting. When I was using P.R. I didn't seal them and the Resin dissolved the glue and the feathers floated away from the tube.

 

[oldtoolsniper]

Moisture is a big concern. I have rushed many a perfect tube and had it fail due to moisture. Alumilite and Epoxy Resins are more finicky to water than the P.R Resins. I think the steam might be a bigger pain than necessary. Give the spray glue a try and be sure to seal the feather before casting. When I was using P.R. I didn't seal them and the Resin dissolved the glue and the feathers floated away from the tube.

What spray adhesive are you using? When you roll the tube onto the feather do the feather barbs stay together?

I've discovered as many before me have to buy extra tubes. Paint them days in advance and don't assume the paint will work until you have combined all of the chemicals you are going to use.

I would imagine the oil from the feathers should be considered as well.


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[socdad]

I've discovered as many before me have to buy extra tubes. Paint them days in advance and don't assume the paint will work until you have combined all of the chemicals you are going to use.

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I have had much better success powder coating tubes ...

 

[Kenny Durrant]

I use powder coating and paint. The paint I use is a water base acrylic that I get from Michaels. Be sure to let everything dry and cure before casting. I like the paint because it's cheap and comes in a rainbow of colors. I also cast snakes,cloth and paper so I can always find a color to help accent whatever it is that I'm wanting to cast. Also about useing heat to bend the feathers. I've found that a curling iron will do the same thing. I'm not sure that the diameter of the iron will be small enough to match the tube but maybe there is something similar that will work. I use a 3M spay adhesive and the feathers lay down nicely. Trim the feathers the way you want them and hold the can a good 12 inches from the feather. Too much glue and the feather will wad up and be ruined. It doesn't take much at all. I'm holding the bottom of the quill with tweezers so when I spay the glue I can position the feather exactly how I want it on the tube. Be careful be cause you only get one shot at putting it down. If you peel it off it will be ruined as well. When the feather is centered on the tube I lay the feather face down on a paper towel and roll it side to side to completely glue the feather to the tube. Then seal with Elmers. Be careful when sealing that if the feathers get too saturated at once they might draw up as well. There has been a few times this has happened and I was able to save a few using the acrylic paint to cover up the cracks. I won 2nd place in the 2016 freestyle casting contest if you want to see an example of my work. Like I said earlier it's not as good as others here but I think I can make a nice pen.

 

[oldtoolsniper]

I use powder coating and paint. The paint I use is a water base acrylic that I get from Michaels. Be sure to let everything dry and cure before casting. I like the paint because it's cheap and comes in a rainbow of colors. I also cast snakes,cloth and paper so I can always find a color to help accent whatever it is that I'm wanting to cast. Also about useing heat to bend the feathers. I've found that a curling iron will do the same thing. I'm not sure that the diameter of the iron will be small enough to match the tube but maybe there is something similar that will work. I use a 3M spay adhesive and the feathers lay down nicely. Trim the feathers the way you want them and hold the can a good 12 inches from the feather. Too much glue and the feather will wad up and be ruined. It doesn't take much at all. I'm holding the bottom of the quill with tweezers so when I spay the glue I can position the feather exactly how I want it on the tube. Be careful be cause you only get one shot at putting it down. If you peel it off it will be ruined as well. When the feather is centered on the tube I lay the feather face down on a paper towel and roll it side to side to completely glue the feather to the tube. Then seal with Elmers. Be careful when sealing that if the feathers get too saturated at once they might draw up as well. There has been a few times this has happened and I was able to save a few using the acrylic paint to cover up the cracks. I won 2nd place in the 2016 freestyle casting contest if you want to see an example of my work. Like I said earlier it's not as good as others here but I think I can make a nice pen.

I'm set up for powder coating jig heads, unfortunately it's -21 or so my shed outside is a little nippy.

I'm going to do a practice run following your instructions today. I already have three pages of notes, it's kept me occupied.

I have a curling iron I bought at a thrift store yesterday. If it works I'll take it apart and modify it to pen tube size if I can figure it out.

I have tied flies that required set feathers, I used sig dope to coat the feathers onto stretched pantyhose then cut them out. Fish can chew on them all day and not wreck the feathers.

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[oldtoolsniper]

I would love to see your work if you care to share.


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[Catski1]

Looks really good, I haven't tried casting feathers yet, and have only tried using origami paper which is far easier to glue to a brass tube than the feather must be. Keep up the good work. I'm sure you'll find it easier as you do more. Thanks for sharing the pics. All the best. Cheers.