Glenn McCullough
Member
Perhaps a check box accepting criticism may be the easiest way not to have to have a separate forum. Is that a possiblity?
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johnhart
Member
I voted "Don't Care"...not because of apathy...but because I think that the establishment of a protocol, either a check box, the word "crtique" or a separate forum, would create a distinction that all members would honor. Personally, sometimes I need to get a couple dozen opinions to decide whether something is good or bad simply because of the myriad of personalities and different tastes. I'm pretty thick skinned, but there are those whose feelings might be hurt on a bad day if an unsolicited negative critique slipped in.
JimGo
Member
Glenn, the check-box is an interesting idea, but it would mean mucking around with the way Snitz works, which isn't exactly the easiest thing to do (it would mean a new field in the database, at the very least, plus the SQL code, etc. to implement tracking the status of the check-box, plus adding the appropriate controls to the new post page, at the very least). It's probably easier if we just all adopt a convention of putting the word Critique in the subject line if we want 'em or, better still, to make the new forum so the dividing line is even clearer.
Rob, while I agree that there are a lot of "nice pen" comments, don't forget, a lot of those take into account the turner's ability, and some focus more on fit and finish than color selection. I don't think most of those receiving "nice pen" comments feel that they have arrived. I know that, especially in hindsight, most of my first five to ten pens look like a car backed over them a few times (just check out my gallery to see what I mean!), but since they were my first few pens, the "looks good" type comments gave me encouragement enough to keep me motivated to try again and again. So, I don't fault people for those kinds of comments, even on some sad lookin' pens - in fact, I'm usually one of those who adds the "nice pen" comments (that's how my post count got so high)!
Rob, while I agree that there are a lot of "nice pen" comments, don't forget, a lot of those take into account the turner's ability, and some focus more on fit and finish than color selection. I don't think most of those receiving "nice pen" comments feel that they have arrived. I know that, especially in hindsight, most of my first five to ten pens look like a car backed over them a few times (just check out my gallery to see what I mean!), but since they were my first few pens, the "looks good" type comments gave me encouragement enough to keep me motivated to try again and again. So, I don't fault people for those kinds of comments, even on some sad lookin' pens - in fact, I'm usually one of those who adds the "nice pen" comments (that's how my post count got so high)!
timdaleiden
Member
I agree Jim. I also think that if somebody wants honest feedback, if Jeff and the moderators don't object, put the pen in the poll area. Let people vote on it if the maker wants some feedback. If a new forum is opened up for critiques, it might be a nice feature to include a poll option.
BigRob777
Member
Jim
That's good to hear. I'll be sure to notify you of my first pen-post[
]
I do understand. I just wish there could be a bit more variety, like "hey, that looks pretty good", or "not bad for a bum". Just kidding on the second one. "Good start" is to my liking. I am a counsellor (in my church) and I realize the value of a well placed compliment (it keeps my marriage going too). A good lesson to you singles out there. By the way, Jimgo, nice post. [] I must be slap-happy-tired. Really though, I know I'll appreciate any kind words when I post my first "shakespeare bay-fishing rod."
For you fresh-water fishermen, (or non-fisher) persons, they're called "ugly sticks". I don't really know why. Speaking of fishing rods, does anyone here turn reel seats? Can you tell I'm slightly A.D.D.?
That's good to hear. I'll be sure to notify you of my first pen-post[
]I do understand. I just wish there could be a bit more variety, like "hey, that looks pretty good", or "not bad for a bum". Just kidding on the second one. "Good start" is to my liking. I am a counsellor (in my church) and I realize the value of a well placed compliment (it keeps my marriage going too). A good lesson to you singles out there. By the way, Jimgo, nice post. [
] I must be slap-happy-tired. Really though, I know I'll appreciate any kind words when I post my first "shakespeare bay-fishing rod."For you fresh-water fishermen, (or non-fisher) persons, they're called "ugly sticks". I don't really know why. Speaking of fishing rods, does anyone here turn reel seats? Can you tell I'm slightly A.D.D.?
jenamison
Member
If someone wants a critique, they should ask for it. If they don't specifically ask...DON'T GIVE IT. How's that for simplifing.
*NO CRITIQUES PLEASE*
Mike
*NO CRITIQUES PLEASE*
Mike
Dario
Member
I voted no just because having so many forums is that...too many forums. Not everyone goes to all the other forums and though we have a way to check all current/active threads only...it looks and feels different to me (maybe just me?).
You all know that I am new here...and up until a few hours ago never even knew the existence of the group buy forum.
I like it that way it is now...and maybe we can actually consolidate a forum or two with others [][}].
Critique can be solicited and given at the show off your pens forum...works well now I think.
Just my 2 cents. Dario runs for cover. []
You all know that I am new here...and up until a few hours ago never even knew the existence of the group buy forum.
I like it that way it is now...and maybe we can actually consolidate a forum or two with others [
][}].Critique can be solicited and given at the show off your pens forum...works well now I think.
Just my 2 cents. Dario runs for cover. [
]JimGo
Member
Dario, you expect us to take the opinion of someone who have been around long enough that he should have PARTICIPATED in a group buy or two, let alone have found the forum?!?!!? []
Kidding, of course.
]Kidding, of course.
I have been on both sides of the topic of critiques in a public forum, whether on-line or at a club meeting; and I agree with everything that has been said both for and against. All of the arguments are valid ones.
Why not set it up and see what happens?? The worst that could happen is that everybody gets mad, or all you get are inane comments. There is always the chance that it will work, even for a little while.
I have not seen much success with the on-line critiques. A big problem is that we only see the best of everyones work. Those who could benefit from a critique don't post photos, and those who don't need the critique do.
We set up a separate board on Wood Central just for the purpose of a critique. We anticipated that the traffic would be limited on a separate forum, and considered that to be a good thing because the exposure of the comments would also be limited, and as close to a private conversation as possible in a public forum. The problem is that none of the woodturners ever post anything there for critique. So the photos still get posted on the main turning board, some people ask for opinions, and everybody says "Great job", or "Fantastic". The closest thing to a critique are occasional comments on how to improve the quality of the photos. That has been helpful, and the quality of the photos has gotten better; but only because those with poor quality photos quit posting them.
Set it up and we will see what happens.
Why not set it up and see what happens?? The worst that could happen is that everybody gets mad, or all you get are inane comments. There is always the chance that it will work, even for a little while.
I have not seen much success with the on-line critiques. A big problem is that we only see the best of everyones work. Those who could benefit from a critique don't post photos, and those who don't need the critique do.
We set up a separate board on Wood Central just for the purpose of a critique. We anticipated that the traffic would be limited on a separate forum, and considered that to be a good thing because the exposure of the comments would also be limited, and as close to a private conversation as possible in a public forum. The problem is that none of the woodturners ever post anything there for critique. So the photos still get posted on the main turning board, some people ask for opinions, and everybody says "Great job", or "Fantastic". The closest thing to a critique are occasional comments on how to improve the quality of the photos. That has been helpful, and the quality of the photos has gotten better; but only because those with poor quality photos quit posting them.
Set it up and we will see what happens.
Would it be any more acceptable if the forum was members-only? That is, only site members could post/view, so the casual visitor would not see the forum.
M
Mudder
Guest
Let me throw this out for thoughts. If you have a contact email for the forum why not ask people just to email the critique to you? There is an "email poster" button above your post if you have a contact email set up and it is a little bit more private. You won't be getting all the "yea, me too" posts and if it is something that hurts, it's not up for all to see and get archived. It would be between you and the person giving the critique. If it is good constructive criticism then you can save it, if not hit the delete key and it's gone forever.
There is both good and bad to this idea. But it is a possible solution, "critiques please"?
There is both good and bad to this idea. But it is a possible solution, "critiques please"?
From Jeff
"Would it be any more acceptable if the forum was members-only? That is, only site members could post/view, so the casual visitor would not see the forum."
I think that would be a great idea as with many other parts of the site.I realize that is a conflivt as to why this site was set up.
The question here is you are asking if a possible forum be modified before it is set up.
My original suggestion was a testing zone for different concepts and it evolved into a critqu forum poll. No biggie they would serve the same purpose.
One possible suggestion would be to set it up where all replies are anaonymous with only the originator of the thread knowing all repiers identity.
That would keep personalitiy differences to a minimum.Another option is to have the original poster's identity remain anonymous.
Mudder-
as far as "critiques" by e-mail that option is always available providing the poster has his contact up to date.
I have in the past e-mailed a member with suggestion because a critique was not invited.
I guess Russs suggestion is the best.
Get a critique forum started If it works fine if not it will self destruct.
"Would it be any more acceptable if the forum was members-only? That is, only site members could post/view, so the casual visitor would not see the forum."
I think that would be a great idea as with many other parts of the site.I realize that is a conflivt as to why this site was set up.
The question here is you are asking if a possible forum be modified before it is set up.
My original suggestion was a testing zone for different concepts and it evolved into a critqu forum poll. No biggie they would serve the same purpose.
One possible suggestion would be to set it up where all replies are anaonymous with only the originator of the thread knowing all repiers identity.
That would keep personalitiy differences to a minimum.Another option is to have the original poster's identity remain anonymous.
Mudder-
as far as "critiques" by e-mail that option is always available providing the poster has his contact up to date.
I have in the past e-mailed a member with suggestion because a critique was not invited.
I guess Russs suggestion is the best.
Get a critique forum started If it works fine if not it will self destruct.
penhead
Local Chapter Leader
Now there's an idea I would vote for, ..."One possible suggestion would be to set it up where all replies are anaonymous with only the originator of the thread knowing all repiers identity."
I think it would also be perhaps more impartial if the identity of whomever submitted the pen/item for critique were kept anonymous.
I think it would also be perhaps more impartial if the identity of whomever submitted the pen/item for critique were kept anonymous.
Not possible with the forum software.
Oh well, strike two as far as suggestions go.[
]
its_virgil
Member
I agree with Russ. Set up the forum for critique. Those that want to use it will and those who don't will continue to post elsewhere. A poster in the critique forum should understand that they are asking for critique and not get upset if the replies don't meet their expectations. How else can we learn. I thought my pens looked really nice until placed next to some REALLY nice pens. Some replies will be sincere, some very negative and maybe even cruel, but they must also be taken with a grain of salt. One of my major (silent) complaints of penturners.org is that almost every pen that is posted; excellent,good, bad, relly bad, or anywhere inbetween; always gets lots of atta-boys, looks nice, pats on the back, and similar reviews. How can we get better in design, craftsmanship, kit choice, material choice,and finishing if every pen we post gets "really nice", "excellent workmanship", "great design", and "great choice of plating and wood" comments. I say put up the critique forum and roll with it. I'll post in it and I'll accept whatever comments come and take them as CONSTURCTIVE CRITICISM and if a poster wants all atta-boys then they can post in the "show off your pens" forum. Just my thoughts..take 'em or leave 'em.
Do a good turn daily! (The original)
Don
Edited for grammitical errors
Do a good turn daily! (The original)
Don
Edited for grammitical errors
JimGo
Member
I agree Don. There are times where I'm trying something new (at leat new to me), and just want the pat on the back for having accomplished it. In some cases, I know it doesn't look that great, but I'm happy to have done it. For those, I'm sticking to the Show off your Pens forum. But some I've done are (in my never-humble opinion) worthy of a little extra praise, and those I'll be posting to the critique forum because I've already decided they look good, and want to know what others think I can do better - like you said, that's how we learn.
PenWorks
Member
Atta Boy Virgil, good post, really worded well, excellent choice of verbs and nouns. You should be an author of some sorts.
But then again, your paragraph was way to long, and there were some puncuation errors, and I would have checked your spelling, but I can't spell either. []
Start the new forum ! [] [}] []
But then again, your paragraph was way to long, and there were some puncuation errors, and I would have checked your spelling, but I can't spell either. [
]Start the new forum ! [
] [}] []
I've contacted a few of you to help me write a set of guidelines for the new forum. I'll combine the best of what I get from you into a single set of rules and then create the new forum. Thanks for all the great discussion and suggestions.
EDIT: My request for rules went to four people who posted in this topic and offered some direction for how the forum would operate. If I didn't ask you, but you have something you want to contribute to the guidelines, PLEASE WRITE TO ME! []
EDIT: My request for rules went to four people who posted in this topic and offered some direction for how the forum would operate. If I didn't ask you, but you have something you want to contribute to the guidelines, PLEASE WRITE TO ME! [
]
its_virgil
Member
I don't want my verbs, nouns, spelling and punctuation critiqued, just my pens. You are so clever! Thanks Anthony...And Jim.[][8D]
Good chat last night, Anthony. Your audience drew form Nova Scotia to Australia. We may have to advertise as the Western Hemisphere's #1 pen turning talk show.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
[]
][8D]Good chat last night, Anthony. Your audience drew form Nova Scotia to Australia. We may have to advertise as the Western Hemisphere's #1 pen turning talk show.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
[
]
Originally posted by penworks
<br />Atta Boy Virgil, good post, really worded well, excellent choice of verbs and nouns. You should be an author of some sorts.
But then again, your paragraph was way to long, and there were some puncuation errors, and I would have checked your spelling, but I can't spell either. [
Start the new forum ! [
Acutally, Australia is in the Eastern hemisphere. [
]
M
Mudder
Guest
Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br />
Acutally, Australia is in the Eastern hemisphere. [
Oh Yea!
Then howcome their water spins the opposite way going down the drain!
Huh!
TELL ME!
I already know the answer and yes it does sipn opposite of what it does in North America If the world didn't suck we might all fall off.
Not true, evidently you don't watch Mythbusters.It may on occasion but that is not necciscarily the rule.(Urban legend started by Austrlians to mess with our minds)Originally posted by Mudder
<br />Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br />
Acutally, Australia is in the Eastern hemisphere. [
Oh Yea!
Then howcome their water spins the opposite way going down the drain!
Huh!
TELL ME!
I already know the answer and yes it does sipn opposite of what it does in North America If the world didn't suck we might all fall off.
(not meaning to
Dario
Member
Eagles,
You are getting multiple dose of your own medicine now LOL [}]
HINT: hidden messages
You are getting multiple dose of your own medicine now LOL [}
] HINT: hidden messages
Originally posted by Dario
<br />Eagles,
You are getting multiple dose of your own medicine now LOL [}
HINT: hidden messages
I was requested to tone down my signature.It seems the forming of my own group of one(until someone else joins) was offending the weak hearts of certain members.
So I did.No medicine involved
One of my biggest disappointments in life was to discover that the water swirlled in the same direction in AU as it did here at home in the USA. It was the first thing I checked after I got off the plane.
The only things that turn in the opposite direction are those chucks that are made by Vicmarc and Tecnatool. I understand that the latest models from Vicmarc turn in the "right" direction.
The only things that turn in the opposite direction are those chucks that are made by Vicmarc and Tecnatool. I understand that the latest models from Vicmarc turn in the "right" direction.
Woodbutcher68
Member
I thought it was in the Southern Hemisphere.Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br />
Acutally, Australia is in the Eastern hemisphere. [
Did it move because of Global Warming?
PenWorks
Member
Russ, I still don't believe it, even if it is coming from you. That would rank right up there with Santa & the Easter Bunny [V] Since I will probablly never make it there, I will go to my grave thinking it spins the other way [
]Thanks Russ for the vindication.
Heck I may have read it in one of your articles[
]
M
Mudder
Guest
I stand corrected. Was thinking of the Coriolis effect or Coriolis force on hurricanes, artillery projectiles, and windage adjustments for long range rifle shooting.should have said nothing.
Yeah I know what you mean thats a common mistake, I walys get those mixed up.
its_virgil
Member
That's because they are in the Southern Hemisphere...tornadoes turn opposite, hurricanes I think but they may call them cyclones, waterspouts, etc. Has something to do with the way gravity works and th earth sipnning and bla, bla, bla....confusing isn't it. The way I look at it, that's how it works and it's ok with me.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
'
Do a good turn daily!
Don
'
Originally posted by Mudder
<br />Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br />
Acutally, Australia is in the Eastern hemisphere. [
Oh Yea!
Then howcome their water spins the opposite way going down the drain!
Huh!
TELL ME!
I already know the answer and yes it does sipn opposite of what it does in North America If the world didn't suck we might all fall off.
its_virgil
Member
I yield to knowledge....having never been there I can only resort to what I heard.....guess I better pay attention to whom I listen.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
-
Do a good turn daily!
Don
-
Originally posted by its_virgil
<br />That's because they are in the Southern Hemisphere...tornadoes turn opposite, hurricanes I think but they may call them cyclones, waterspouts, etc. Has something to do with the way gravity works and th earth sipnning and bla, bla, bla....confusing isn't it. The way I look at it, that's how it works and it's ok with me.
Do a good turn daily!
Don
'Originally posted by Mudder
<br />Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br />
Acutally, Australia is in the Eastern hemisphere. [
Oh Yea!
Then howcome their water spins the opposite way going down the drain!
Huh!
TELL ME!
I already know the answer and yes it does sipn opposite of what it does in North America If the world didn't suck we might all fall off.
Darley
Member
Originally posted by Mudder
<br />Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br />
Acutally, Australia is in the Eastern hemisphere. [
Oh Yea!
Then howcome their water spins the opposite way going down the drain!
Huh!
TELL ME!
I already know the answer and yes it does sipn opposite of what it does in North America If the world didn't suck we might all fall off.
You're back to front [
]
Darley
Member
Well say Don, people who will post in this forum would have to accept everything and not argue afterward, event Jeff could ( it's feasible ) when we clik on the picture to enlarge full screen to look at the pen in more detail, maybe .
Actually it depend if you want to come to my place, the quicker way would be Western way, if you want to visit the world ( slow road to China ) the Eastern way is appropriated [
]
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Thanks for all your comments, and have fun!
Ron in Drums PA
Member
Thanks Jeff
Darley
Member
Ditto, and Bravo Jeff
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